Advice wanted: cycling lane operating hours

Hello all

Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park in
a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign, WITHOUT
any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or does it
mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane in the
first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this particular point.

I don't monitor this NG normally so if you feel disposed to answering the question, please feel free
to send me an email at the address below. Many thanks.

Alec

--
Alec Gallagher [email protected]

 

Alec Gallagher wrote:
> Hello all
>
> Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
> in a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign,
> WITHOUT any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or
> does it mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane
> in the first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this
> particular point.
>
> I don't monitor this NG normally so if you feel disposed to answering the question, please feel
> free to send me an email at the address below. Many thanks.
>
> Alec
>
> --
> Alec Gallagher [email protected]
>
>
>
>

I cant answer the question, but whats the deal with the ones with no sign, (well if there is I
havent noticed it) and just a cycle painted on the road in a lane at the side (all in white paint)

--

-Alex

----------------------------------
[email protected]

http://alexpg.ath.cx:3353/cycling.php http://www.westerleycycling.org.uk
----------------------------------

 

It's open all the time, unless signs say otherwise.

 

In article <[email protected]>, Alec Gallagher
<[email protected]> writes
>Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
>in a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign,
>WITHOUT any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or
>does it mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane
>in the first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this
>particular point.
NOT an authoritative answer but the one outside my house has a long dashed white line at its
boundary with the main car bit and I think that makes it a cyclist priority lane (made up term)
rather than an exclusive cycle lane and is thus fair game for drivers, stoppers & parkers. Solid
line perhaps indicates exclusive cycle lane.

Just my thoughts . . .
--
fred

 

"Alec Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Hello all
>
> Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
> in a cycle lane during its operating hours.

That's a mandatory cycle lane. For an advisory cycle lane only the normal parking
restrictions apply.

--
Dave...

 

Some cycle lanes have single yellow lines in them, in which case the associated sign will give
the times.

ttfn

Martin

--
"I wanted wine, women and song. I got a drunk woman singing."

Martin Harlow [email protected]

 

On Fri, 2 May 2003 12:57:19 +0100, Martin Harlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Some cycle lanes have single yellow lines in them, in which case the associated sign will give
> the times.
>
Wide cycle lanes in your neck of the woods then?

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

 

In article <[email protected]>, Tim Woodall
<[email protected]> writes
>On Fri, 2 May 2003 12:57:19 +0100, Martin Harlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Some cycle lanes have single yellow lines in them, in which case the associated sign will give
>> the times.
>>
>Wide cycle lanes in your neck of the woods then?

Funnily enough, no :-(

ttfn

Martin

--
'Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.' Steven Wright

Martin Harlow [email protected]

 

fred <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> NOT an authoritative answer but the one outside my house has a long dashed white line at its
> boundary with the main car bit and I think that makes it a cyclist priority lane (made up term)
> rather than an exclusive cycle lane and is thus fair game for drivers, stoppers & parkers.

It's an advisory lane. Cars can't use it unless it's "unavoidable", whatever that means.

> Solid line perhaps indicates exclusive cycle lane.

That's a mandatory lane. Cars can't use it at all when it's in operation. Presumably though, if
it's really "unavoidable" that would be a lawful excuse because by definition it could not have
been avoided.

--
Dave...

 

Martin Harlow <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, Tim Woodall
> <[email protected]> writes

> >Wide cycle lanes in your neck of the woods then?
>
> Funnily enough, no :-(

There's an absolutely deadly cycle lane in Feltham (Faggs Road) that in places is only just wide
enough to contain the double red lines marking the red route. If you wanted to ride in it and avoid
the paint you'd have about 2 inches of usable road.

--
Dave...

 

"Alec Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Hello all
>
> Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
> in a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign,
> WITHOUT any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or
> does it mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane
> in the first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this
> particular point.
>
> I don't monitor this NG normally so if you feel disposed to answering the question, please feel
> free to send me an email at the address below. Many thanks.

The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in the
cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as depicted
on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines. Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no parking
restrictions. Simon

 

"Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in
> the cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as
> depicted on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines. Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no
> parking restrictions.

And I thought the yellow lines in cycle lanes were there to guide the cyclist into the drain covers
and through the broken glass

 

[email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in
> the cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as
> depicted on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines.

There is a cycle lane running past Kew Gardens that has its time of opertaion clearly marked by a
plate in the same way that bus lanes often do. To me this implies that a cycle lane without such a
plate is in force all the time. A close reading of the HC leads me to believe that parking is
prohibited in a mandatory cycle lane during its times of operation, but that parking in an advisory
cycle lane is governed only by the normal parking restrictions, including the yellow lines.

> Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no parking restrictions.

HC rule 119: "Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in
a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation." If a lack of yellow lines
indicates parking is allowed at all times this implies that a mandatory cycle lane without yellow
lines is never in force, which is clearly absurd.

Having said this, there is a mandatory cycle lane in Isleworth with no plate giving times of
operation, but it has a single yellow line implying that MDGs can be parked there at certain times.
Does this mean that the entire force of the cycle lane disappears when parking is permitted, or only
the parking restriction, or does the force of the cycle lane overrule the yellow line?

This whole situation is ridiculous. I have studied the relevant parts of the HC quite closely, I am
a committed cyclist with a vested interest in understanding the regulations, and I still can't work
it out. I think it might be necessary to go to the acts of parliament and study the statutory
instruments for each lane to be sure, but how is a cyclist or a cager supposed to know what the
rules are for any given cycle lane?

--
Dave...

 

[email protected] (Dave Kahn) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in
> > the cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as
> > depicted on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines.
>
> There is a cycle lane running past Kew Gardens that has its time of opertaion clearly marked by
> a plate in the same way that bus lanes often do. To me this implies that a cycle lane without
> such a plate is in force all the time. A close reading of the HC leads me to believe that
> parking is prohibited in a mandatory cycle lane during its times of operation, but that parking
> in an advisory cycle lane is governed only by the normal parking restrictions, including the
> yellow lines.
>
> > Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no parking restrictions.
>
> HC rule 119: "Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park
> in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation." If a lack of yellow
> lines indicates parking is allowed at all times this implies that a mandatory cycle lane without
> yellow lines is never in force, which is clearly absurd.
>
> Having said this, there is a mandatory cycle lane in Isleworth with no plate giving times of
> operation, but it has a single yellow line implying that MDGs can be parked there at certain
> times. Does this mean that the entire force of the cycle lane disappears when parking is
> permitted, or only the parking restriction, or does the force of the cycle lane overrule the
> yellow line?
>
> This whole situation is ridiculous. I have studied the relevant parts of the HC quite closely, I
> am a committed cyclist with a vested interest in understanding the regulations, and I still can't
> work it out. I think it might be necessary to go to the acts of parliament and study the statutory
> instruments for each lane to be sure, but how is a cyclist or a cager supposed to know what the
> rules are for any given cycle lane?

It's a bit of a cock up. We've had several letters in our local paper about cars parking in cycle
lanes with solid lines, but unless there are yellow lines as well, plod say they can't do anything.

There are no "hours of operation" signs for any cycle lanes, except for bus/cycle lanes. To help the
situation there are many lanes like this that allow parking and do not hinder cyclists.

http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/centrelanes.jpg

Simon

 

On 3 May 2003 08:07:16 -0700, Simon Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (Dave Kahn) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> [email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>
> It's a bit of a cock up. We've had several letters in our local paper about cars parking in cycle
> lanes with solid lines, but unless there are yellow lines as well, plod say they can't do
> anything.
>
It's all in the 18something-or-other highways act. It is an offence to park ANYWHERE that causes an
obstruction to the Queen's Highway.

I think the only places guaranteed to be "ok" are off the highway completely or in properly marked
bays (which may or may not be all or partially on the pavement)

OTOH, it might be argued that the car isn't obstructing the highway as both cars and cycles
can pass it.

Its one of those things (like crossing a solid white line to pass a stationary queue of cars) that
will not be known for certain until either someone gets prosecuted and takes it all the way to court
or some primary or secondary legislation is enacted explicitly making it an offence (or non offence)

> There are no "hours of operation" signs for any cycle lanes, except for bus/cycle lanes. To help
> the situation there are many lanes like this that allow parking and do not hinder cyclists.
>
> http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/centrelanes.jpg
>
Some councils at least paint the road red to warn you to keep out of the dooring zone. It appears
not in this instance :-(

Regards,

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

 

Tim Woodall <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On 3 May 2003 08:07:16 -0700,

> >
> Some councils at least paint the road red to warn you to keep out of the dooring zone. It appears
> not in this instance :-

This is wide enough surely:

http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/brickq.jpg

Simon

 

[email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> There are no "hours of operation" signs for any cycle lanes, except for bus/cycle lanes.

As I mentioned above there are at least a couple in my neck of the woods. There's one that runs
past Kew Gardens and one in Whitton. The Whitton one also has a single yellow line, and the
parking restriction plates agree with the ones giving the time of operation of the cycle lane
although they're sited in different places. Off hand I can't remember whether the Kew lane also
has a yellow line.

> To help the situation there are many lanes like this that allow parking and do not hinder
> cyclists.

> http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/centrelanes.

In this case the parking is not in the cycle lane. This particular lane, however, looks like an
invitation to a dooring. The road planner's booklet "Cycling by Design" recommends that where
parking is provided between a cycle lane and the kerb, there should be a hatched area between the
two. This booklet, however, seems to apply only in Scotland for some reason.

--
Dave...

 

Dave Kahn wrote in uk.rec.cycling: about: Re: Advice wanted: cycling lane operating hours

> In this case the parking is not in the cycle lane. This particular lane, however, looks like an
> invitation to a dooring. The road planner's booklet "Cycling by Design" recommends that where
> parking is provided between a cycle lane and the kerb, there should be a hatched area between
> the two.

> This booklet, however, seems to apply only in Scotland for some reason.

The reason is fairly obvious. We live in a united kingdom of four different nations. There's more to
the UK than England, remember! It was a union, not a takeover.

Every one of those nations does its own thing to a greater or lesser extent (although Wales was
kinda invaded and largely subsumed, and Northern Ireland regularly gets its rattle taken away when
Westminster decides it can't be trusted to play with it, but Scotland's always done its own thing on
many/most issues ;-)

In Scotland, we do about 80 - 90% of our own things here in our country. (It always worries and
surprises me the number of otherwise intelligent people who simply don't know that).

"Cycling By Design" was published by The Scottish Executive [that's the Scottish government's civil
service for any confused southerners who've been asleep since 1999], so self-evidently it only
applies in Scotland. Simple really!

Unfortunately, it's also an extremely watered-down and badly formatted (it's not readable as a
quick-reference tome, only end-to-end) rehash of the Sustrans NCN guidelines, written in order to
allow sloppy design, so I'd keep quiet about it rather than giving it credence as a useful reference
document. The only thing it has going for it is in strongly recommending cycle audit/cycle review.
And as far as I'm aware, it's still a 'draft' and hasn't been released in finalised form, although
consultation closed a couple of years ago..

Sample (paraphrased) quote:

"Cycle lanes should be 2m wide, although 1.5m is more usual. But sometimes there might not be space
for this, so 1.2m is ok for short distances. And on rare occasions with very restricted widths,
short lengths of 1.0m are acceptable in order to ensure continuity of route."

As you can imagine, forests of dangerously-narrow 1.0m cycle lane are now starting to appear as 'the
norm' on roads where considerably wider lanes should have been installed.

In my opinion, anything less than ~1.5m is unacceptable except as lead-in to an ASL (on a road that
doesn't otherwise have cycle lanes).

This guide belongs alongside the London Cycle Network Design Guidelines in the bin of 'guidance
written to permit any old crap and say it conforms to the guidelines', rather than the golden shelf
of 'what all cycle provision *should* be like', a shelf which, in the UK, I have yet to see bettered
by anything other than Sustrans' own NCN Guidelines or Lothian's "Quickie Guide to Cycling
Infrastructure for Engineers Who Don't Have Time to Read Manuals But Want to Do The Right Thing"
(that's not what it's actually called, but it's what it is, and it *works*).

 

"Dave Kahn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The road planner's booklet "Cycling by Design" recommends that where parking is provided between a
> cycle lane and the kerb, there should be a hatched area between the two. This booklet, however,
> seems to apply only in Scotland for some reason.

Unfortunately, it still seems to be just a "consultation document", which means that even in
Scotland the planners appear to be free to ignore it altogether. The original intention was to
incorporate the final version into DMRB, but this seems to have fallen by the wayside. [CEU: Is
anything really happening with this?]

It appears that cycle lanes can be narrower than Cycling by Design's "absolute minimum width" - and
also that the adjacent general traffic lane can also be narrower than minimum because the advisory
cycle lane is still available for use by wide vehicles. I've seen 1.1 m advisory cycle lanes marked
down both sides of a 6 metre wide single-carriageway road, leaving the other two lanes just 1.75m
wide - and this was on a bus route!

David D Miller Edinburgh