Advice wanted: cycling lane operating hours

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Alec Gallagher, May 1, 2003.

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  1. Hello all

    Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park in
    a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign, WITHOUT
    any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or does it
    mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane in the
    first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this particular point.

    I don't monitor this NG normally so if you feel disposed to answering the question, please feel free
    to send me an email at the address below. Many thanks.

    Alec

    --
    Alec Gallagher [email protected]
     
    Tags:


  2. Alex Graham

    Alex Graham Guest

    Alec Gallagher wrote:
    > Hello all
    >
    > Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
    > in a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign,
    > WITHOUT any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or
    > does it mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane
    > in the first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this
    > particular point.
    >
    > I don't monitor this NG normally so if you feel disposed to answering the question, please feel
    > free to send me an email at the address below. Many thanks.
    >
    > Alec
    >
    > --
    > Alec Gallagher [email protected]
    >
    >
    >
    >

    I cant answer the question, but whats the deal with the ones with no sign, (well if there is I
    havent noticed it) and just a cycle painted on the road in a lane at the side (all in white paint)

    --

    -Alex

    ----------------------------------
    [email protected]

    http://alexpg.ath.cx:3353/cycling.php http://www.westerleycycling.org.uk
    ----------------------------------
     
  3. It's open all the time, unless signs say otherwise.
     
  4. Fred

    Fred Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Alec Gallagher
    <[email protected]> writes
    >Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
    >in a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign,
    >WITHOUT any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or
    >does it mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane
    >in the first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this
    >particular point.
    NOT an authoritative answer but the one outside my house has a long dashed white line at its
    boundary with the main car bit and I think that makes it a cyclist priority lane (made up term)
    rather than an exclusive cycle lane and is thus fair game for drivers, stoppers & parkers. Solid
    line perhaps indicates exclusive cycle lane.

    Just my thoughts . . .
    --
    fred
     
  5. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    "Alec Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hello all
    >
    > Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
    > in a cycle lane during its operating hours.

    That's a mandatory cycle lane. For an advisory cycle lane only the normal parking
    restrictions apply.

    --
    Dave...
     
  6. Some cycle lanes have single yellow lines in them, in which case the associated sign will give
    the times.

    ttfn

    Martin

    --
    "I wanted wine, women and song. I got a drunk woman singing."

    Martin Harlow [email protected]
     
  7. Tim Woodall

    Tim Woodall Guest

    On Fri, 2 May 2003 12:57:19 +0100, Martin Harlow <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Some cycle lanes have single yellow lines in them, in which case the associated sign will give
    > the times.
    >
    Wide cycle lanes in your neck of the woods then?

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>, Tim Woodall
    <[email protected]> writes
    >On Fri, 2 May 2003 12:57:19 +0100, Martin Harlow <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> Some cycle lanes have single yellow lines in them, in which case the associated sign will give
    >> the times.
    >>
    >Wide cycle lanes in your neck of the woods then?

    Funnily enough, no :-(

    ttfn

    Martin

    --
    'Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.' Steven Wright

    Martin Harlow [email protected]
     
  9. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    fred <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > NOT an authoritative answer but the one outside my house has a long dashed white line at its
    > boundary with the main car bit and I think that makes it a cyclist priority lane (made up term)
    > rather than an exclusive cycle lane and is thus fair game for drivers, stoppers & parkers.

    It's an advisory lane. Cars can't use it unless it's "unavoidable", whatever that means.

    > Solid line perhaps indicates exclusive cycle lane.

    That's a mandatory lane. Cars can't use it at all when it's in operation. Presumably though, if
    it's really "unavoidable" that would be a lawful excuse because by definition it could not have
    been avoided.

    --
    Dave...
     
  10. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    Martin Harlow <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Tim Woodall
    > <[email protected]> writes

    > >Wide cycle lanes in your neck of the woods then?
    >
    > Funnily enough, no :-(

    There's an absolutely deadly cycle lane in Feltham (Faggs Road) that in places is only just wide
    enough to contain the double red lines marking the red route. If you wanted to ride in it and avoid
    the paint you'd have about 2 inches of usable road.

    --
    Dave...
     
  11. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "Alec Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hello all
    >
    > Could someone out there answer a question for me? The highway code says that motorists can't park
    > in a cycle lane during its operating hours. If the cycle lane is only indicated by a blue sign,
    > WITHOUT any time periods specified, does this mean that the lane is operational all the time? Or
    > does it mean that it is has no periods of operation (in which case, what's the point of the lane
    > in the first place?) I have scoured the highway code, but it doesn't seem to answer this
    > particular point.
    >
    > I don't monitor this NG normally so if you feel disposed to answering the question, please feel
    > free to send me an email at the address below. Many thanks.

    The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in the
    cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as depicted
    on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines. Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no parking
    restrictions. Simon
     
  12. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in
    > the cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as
    > depicted on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines. Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no
    > parking restrictions.

    And I thought the yellow lines in cycle lanes were there to guide the cyclist into the drain covers
    and through the broken glass :eek:
     
  13. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    [email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in
    > the cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as
    > depicted on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines.

    There is a cycle lane running past Kew Gardens that has its time of opertaion clearly marked by a
    plate in the same way that bus lanes often do. To me this implies that a cycle lane without such a
    plate is in force all the time. A close reading of the HC leads me to believe that parking is
    prohibited in a mandatory cycle lane during its times of operation, but that parking in an advisory
    cycle lane is governed only by the normal parking restrictions, including the yellow lines.

    > Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no parking restrictions.

    HC rule 119: "Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in
    a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation." If a lack of yellow lines
    indicates parking is allowed at all times this implies that a mandatory cycle lane without yellow
    lines is never in force, which is clearly absurd.

    Having said this, there is a mandatory cycle lane in Isleworth with no plate giving times of
    operation, but it has a single yellow line implying that MDGs can be parked there at certain times.
    Does this mean that the entire force of the cycle lane disappears when parking is permitted, or only
    the parking restriction, or does the force of the cycle lane overrule the yellow line?

    This whole situation is ridiculous. I have studied the relevant parts of the HC quite closely, I am
    a committed cyclist with a vested interest in understanding the regulations, and I still can't work
    it out. I think it might be necessary to go to the acts of parliament and study the statutory
    instruments for each lane to be sure, but how is a cyclist or a cager supposed to know what the
    rules are for any given cycle lane?

    --
    Dave...
     
  14. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    [email protected] (Dave Kahn) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > The period of operation is determined by the yellow lines. If there are double yellow lines in
    > > the cycle lane, then you may not park there at any time. If it's single unbroken then it's as
    > > depicted on the plate and ditto for the dashed lines.
    >
    > There is a cycle lane running past Kew Gardens that has its time of opertaion clearly marked by
    > a plate in the same way that bus lanes often do. To me this implies that a cycle lane without
    > such a plate is in force all the time. A close reading of the HC leads me to believe that
    > parking is prohibited in a mandatory cycle lane during its times of operation, but that parking
    > in an advisory cycle lane is governed only by the normal parking restrictions, including the
    > yellow lines.
    >
    > > Cycle lanes without yellow lines have no parking restrictions.
    >
    > HC rule 119: "Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park
    > in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation." If a lack of yellow
    > lines indicates parking is allowed at all times this implies that a mandatory cycle lane without
    > yellow lines is never in force, which is clearly absurd.
    >
    > Having said this, there is a mandatory cycle lane in Isleworth with no plate giving times of
    > operation, but it has a single yellow line implying that MDGs can be parked there at certain
    > times. Does this mean that the entire force of the cycle lane disappears when parking is
    > permitted, or only the parking restriction, or does the force of the cycle lane overrule the
    > yellow line?
    >
    > This whole situation is ridiculous. I have studied the relevant parts of the HC quite closely, I
    > am a committed cyclist with a vested interest in understanding the regulations, and I still can't
    > work it out. I think it might be necessary to go to the acts of parliament and study the statutory
    > instruments for each lane to be sure, but how is a cyclist or a cager supposed to know what the
    > rules are for any given cycle lane?

    It's a bit of a cock up. We've had several letters in our local paper about cars parking in cycle
    lanes with solid lines, but unless there are yellow lines as well, plod say they can't do anything.

    There are no "hours of operation" signs for any cycle lanes, except for bus/cycle lanes. To help the
    situation there are many lanes like this that allow parking and do not hinder cyclists.

    http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/centrelanes.jpg

    Simon
     
  15. Tim Woodall

    Tim Woodall Guest

    On 3 May 2003 08:07:16 -0700, Simon Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
    > [email protected] (Dave Kahn) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> [email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
    >> news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >
    > It's a bit of a cock up. We've had several letters in our local paper about cars parking in cycle
    > lanes with solid lines, but unless there are yellow lines as well, plod say they can't do
    > anything.
    >
    It's all in the 18something-or-other highways act. It is an offence to park ANYWHERE that causes an
    obstruction to the Queen's Highway.

    I think the only places guaranteed to be "ok" are off the highway completely or in properly marked
    bays (which may or may not be all or partially on the pavement)

    OTOH, it might be argued that the car isn't obstructing the highway as both cars and cycles
    can pass it.

    Its one of those things (like crossing a solid white line to pass a stationary queue of cars) that
    will not be known for certain until either someone gets prosecuted and takes it all the way to court
    or some primary or secondary legislation is enacted explicitly making it an offence (or non offence)

    > There are no "hours of operation" signs for any cycle lanes, except for bus/cycle lanes. To help
    > the situation there are many lanes like this that allow parking and do not hinder cyclists.
    >
    > http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/centrelanes.jpg
    >
    Some councils at least paint the road red to warn you to keep out of the dooring zone. It appears
    not in this instance :-(

    Regards,

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
     
  16. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

  17. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    [email protected] (Simon Mason) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > There are no "hours of operation" signs for any cycle lanes, except for bus/cycle lanes.

    As I mentioned above there are at least a couple in my neck of the woods. There's one that runs
    past Kew Gardens and one in Whitton. The Whitton one also has a single yellow line, and the
    parking restriction plates agree with the ones giving the time of operation of the cycle lane
    although they're sited in different places. Off hand I can't remember whether the Kew lane also
    has a yellow line.

    > To help the situation there are many lanes like this that allow parking and do not hinder
    > cyclists.

    > http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/centrelanes.

    In this case the parking is not in the cycle lane. This particular lane, however, looks like an
    invitation to a dooring. The road planner's booklet "Cycling by Design" recommends that where
    parking is provided between a cycle lane and the kerb, there should be a hatched area between the
    two. This booklet, however, seems to apply only in Scotland for some reason.

    --
    Dave...
     
  18. Dave Kahn wrote in uk.rec.cycling: about: Re: Advice wanted: cycling lane operating hours

    > In this case the parking is not in the cycle lane. This particular lane, however, looks like an
    > invitation to a dooring. The road planner's booklet "Cycling by Design" recommends that where
    > parking is provided between a cycle lane and the kerb, there should be a hatched area between
    > the two.

    > This booklet, however, seems to apply only in Scotland for some reason.

    The reason is fairly obvious. We live in a united kingdom of four different nations. There's more to
    the UK than England, remember! It was a union, not a takeover.

    Every one of those nations does its own thing to a greater or lesser extent (although Wales was
    kinda invaded and largely subsumed, and Northern Ireland regularly gets its rattle taken away when
    Westminster decides it can't be trusted to play with it, but Scotland's always done its own thing on
    many/most issues ;-)

    In Scotland, we do about 80 - 90% of our own things here in our country. (It always worries and
    surprises me the number of otherwise intelligent people who simply don't know that).

    "Cycling By Design" was published by The Scottish Executive [that's the Scottish government's civil
    service for any confused southerners who've been asleep since 1999], so self-evidently it only
    applies in Scotland. Simple really!

    Unfortunately, it's also an extremely watered-down and badly formatted (it's not readable as a
    quick-reference tome, only end-to-end) rehash of the Sustrans NCN guidelines, written in order to
    allow sloppy design, so I'd keep quiet about it rather than giving it credence as a useful reference
    document. The only thing it has going for it is in strongly recommending cycle audit/cycle review.
    And as far as I'm aware, it's still a 'draft' and hasn't been released in finalised form, although
    consultation closed a couple of years ago..

    Sample (paraphrased) quote:

    "Cycle lanes should be 2m wide, although 1.5m is more usual. But sometimes there might not be space
    for this, so 1.2m is ok for short distances. And on rare occasions with very restricted widths,
    short lengths of 1.0m are acceptable in order to ensure continuity of route."

    As you can imagine, forests of dangerously-narrow 1.0m cycle lane are now starting to appear as 'the
    norm' on roads where considerably wider lanes should have been installed.

    In my opinion, anything less than ~1.5m is unacceptable except as lead-in to an ASL (on a road that
    doesn't otherwise have cycle lanes).

    This guide belongs alongside the London Cycle Network Design Guidelines in the bin of 'guidance
    written to permit any old crap and say it conforms to the guidelines', rather than the golden shelf
    of 'what all cycle provision *should* be like', a shelf which, in the UK, I have yet to see bettered
    by anything other than Sustrans' own NCN Guidelines or Lothian's "Quickie Guide to Cycling
    Infrastructure for Engineers Who Don't Have Time to Read Manuals But Want to Do The Right Thing"
    (that's not what it's actually called, but it's what it is, and it *works*).
     
  19. "Dave Kahn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The road planner's booklet "Cycling by Design" recommends that where parking is provided between a
    > cycle lane and the kerb, there should be a hatched area between the two. This booklet, however,
    > seems to apply only in Scotland for some reason.

    Unfortunately, it still seems to be just a "consultation document", which means that even in
    Scotland the planners appear to be free to ignore it altogether. The original intention was to
    incorporate the final version into DMRB, but this seems to have fallen by the wayside. [CEU: Is
    anything really happening with this?]

    It appears that cycle lanes can be narrower than Cycling by Design's "absolute minimum width" - and
    also that the adjacent general traffic lane can also be narrower than minimum because the advisory
    cycle lane is still available for use by wide vehicles. I've seen 1.1 m advisory cycle lanes marked
    down both sides of a 6 metre wide single-carriageway road, leaving the other two lanes just 1.75m
    wide - and this was on a bus route!

    David D Miller Edinburgh
     
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