Advice wanted on stronger wheelset

[mikeg]

Looking for some advice

On the weekend I had a spoke break on the drive side on the rear wheel
on my mountain bike. The bike is a year old, and this is the second
spoke to break on the rear wheel. both have been on the drive side. The
first time was in August four months ago.

I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know
what is recommended in the budget range (about AU$220 for a front and
rear wheelset)

What brands and models would be good: Alex (X-1200)? Mavic ? Velocity?

Double walled? triple walled?

Should I stay with 36 hole?

What lacing pattern is recomended, and what does it mean? eg 3 cross?


Some additional info:

I weigh about 100Kg, and have rack and panniers on the rear, sometimes
needing to carry spares and tools for mine and the kids bikes etc. on
recreational rides on paths and roads.

The current wheels are Weinmmann 520 alloy rims on Alloy Parallax
cassette hub, and the bike is an entry level Apollo LSX 1.0
hardtail MTB.

To date I have done about 2000 kms since February.



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[mikeg]

mikeg wrote:
> Alex (X-1200)?



should be Alex (X-2100)?



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[mikeg]

Also what hubs would be a good choice?

brand? model?

mikeg



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[ftf]

Hi Mikeg, It sounds more like the wheel build is the problem, rather
than quality of the rim....

No doubt it was a factory assembled wheel - in other words a wheel just
strong enough to last the trip home from the bike shop.

You say that your riding consists mostly of roads and paths? If
you're not bombing it over rock gardens etc then any 'decent' rim
should suffice - as long as it gets built properly. The hubs you
already have should be plenty good enough if they're only 2000k's
old. Stick with those.

Two rims I have had generally good success with are Mavic and Sun...
different models for different riding and budgets.

$220 might be pushing it though for 2 hand-built wheels but if you use
your current hubs it should be enough? Cheers, Troy



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[Lindsay Rowlands]

mikeg <[email protected]> wrote:
: Looking for some advice

: On the weekend I had a spoke break on the drive side on the rear wheel
: on my mountain bike. The bike is a year old, and this is the second
: spoke to break on the rear wheel. both have been on the drive side. The
: first time was in August four months ago.

: I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know
: what is recommended in the budget range (about AU$220 for a front and
: rear wheelset)

Did you have the wheels retensioned at anytime? With your weight this
is the critical factor. Wheels, properly tensioned are inherently strong.
When they are undertensioned, the bend (as the spoke exits the hub) goes
through a flexing cycle which inevitably suffers metal fatigue. Look
at the broken spoke. I'll bet that's where it failed.

You could buy another set of wheels, but a cheaper and more effective
option is to go to a reputable bike shop and have you rear wheel respoked
and properly tensioned. This should be a minimal cost - perhaps $50 with
a new set of spokes, nipples and labour. Also make a date in your diary
some 500ks down the road to have the wheels retensioned. The wheels will
settle in and not need major retensioning beyond a certain point.

If you want wheels designed for absolute strength, buy yourself a set of
tandem wheels - 40 spokes! They are expensive and heavy.

As far as three cross goes, take a look at your wheels and count how many
times a spoke is crossed by others in its length. It is common these
days to have 'no cross' (radial laced), 1, 2, 3. 4-cross is getting out
there in terms of utility. The number of crosses doesn't give a wheel
dramatically more strength in the plane that you need.

I hope this helps, cheerz,
Lynzz

 

[Tim Jones]

"mikeg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Looking for some advice
>
> On the weekend I had a spoke break on the drive side on the rear wheel
> on my mountain bike. The bike is a year old, and this is the second
> spoke to break on the rear wheel. both have been on the drive side. The
> first time was in August four months ago.
>
> I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know
> what is recommended in the budget range (about AU$220 for a front and
> rear wheelset)
>
> What brands and models would be good: Alex (X-1200)? Mavic ? Velocity?
>
> Double walled? triple walled?
>
> Should I stay with 36 hole?
>
> What lacing pattern is recomended, and what does it mean? eg 3 cross?
>
>
> Some additional info:
>
> I weigh about 100Kg, and have rack and panniers on the rear, sometimes
> needing to carry spares and tools for mine and the kids bikes etc. on
> recreational rides on paths and roads.
>
> The current wheels are Weinmmann 520 alloy rims on Alloy Parallax
> cassette hub, and the bike is an entry level Apollo LSX 1.0
> hardtail MTB.
>
> To date I have done about 2000 kms since February.
>

If you have 36 hole hubs, these won't be causing any problems with your
wheels, so I would suggest a new strong rim and thick gauge spokes.

I am also 100kgs (and treat the wheels rough) - stock wheels never last and
I end upgrading the rim and spokes for the back wheel at least.

For your budget, you could get your rear wheel rebuilt with a good strong
rim and thicker spokes - I was recommended by my LBS a mavic rim for about
$180. I'm not sure of the model.

In the end I ended up purchasing a new wheelset from ebay - Deore hubs,
velocity VXC disc specific rims and thick spokes hand built by an expert.

Cost about $280 all up. I am going to do the change over work myself - I am
awaiting a mail order toolkit.

Tim

 

[Ritch]

mikeg <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Looking for some advice
>
> On the weekend I had a spoke break on the drive side on the rear wheel
> on my mountain bike. The bike is a year old, and this is the second
> spoke to break on the rear wheel. both have been on the drive side. The
> first time was in August four months ago.
>
> I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know
> what is recommended in the budget range (about AU$220 for a front and
> rear wheelset)
>
[snip]

Before spending your hard-earned on new wheels, you may find that your
spokes have not been "stress relieved". If you're going to trash the
wheel anyway, it might pay to give it a go.

See http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8c.1.html for an explanation

Ritch

 

[Richard Sherratt]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:04:58 GMT, Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote:

>mikeg:
>
>> I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know
>> what is recommended in the budget range (about AU$220 for a front and
>> rear wheelset)
>
>Unless the rim you have now has developed flat spots, stick to it and
>just have the wheel re-spoked and re-built. Use double-butted spokes
>(these are thick on the ends and thinner in the middle), and go to a
>wheel builder of good reputation, who must have a spoke tensiometer.

I agree with all of the above apart from the tensiometer. Is it
absolutely necessary?

Take my (road bike) example. I'm around 100 Kg. My rear wheel is Mavic
Open Pro rim, Chorus hub, DT Swiss Competition double-butted spokes
(2.0mm/1.8mm), 32 spokes. It originally had the same spokes, but
black. I had it rebuilt by a _good_ wheel guy with the plain spokes
because of problems with the black spokes. That was 7,500 km ago. I
took it back for a touch-up after 200 km. Since then it hasn't been
touched and is still perfect. Oh yeah. It cost $50.

>Broken spokes that fatigue do so because they have been inadequately
>tensioned.

Yup. Loose spokes break. Which is sort of counter-intuitive.

Regards,
Richard.

 

[Jose Rizal]

Richard Sherratt:

> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:04:58 GMT, Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote:
>
> >Unless the rim you have now has developed flat spots, stick to it and
> >just have the wheel re-spoked and re-built. Use double-butted spokes
> >(these are thick on the ends and thinner in the middle), and go to a
> >wheel builder of good reputation, who must have a spoke tensiometer.
>
> I agree with all of the above apart from the tensiometer. Is it
> absolutely necessary?

Not unless the wheel builder can gauge tension accurately by tone. I
think it's prudent to tension the spokes close to the maximum that the
rim can withstand, as well as having even tension amongst the spokes on
each side of the wheel. A tensiometer allows you to do these things
much easier than plucking the spokes for tone.

> Take my (road bike) example. I'm around 100 Kg. My rear wheel is Mavic
> Open Pro rim, Chorus hub, DT Swiss Competition double-butted spokes
> (2.0mm/1.8mm), 32 spokes. It originally had the same spokes, but
> black. I had it rebuilt by a _good_ wheel guy with the plain spokes
> because of problems with the black spokes. That was 7,500 km ago. I
> took it back for a touch-up after 200 km. Since then it hasn't been
> touched and is still perfect. Oh yeah. It cost $50.

You don't say how the wheelbuilder determined the tension in the spokes;
he may well have used a tensiometer.

 

[Richard Sherratt]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 05:23:37 GMT, Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote:

>Richard Sherratt:

<snip>

>> I agree with all of the above apart from the tensiometer. Is it
>> absolutely necessary?
>
>Not unless the wheel builder can gauge tension accurately by tone. I
>think it's prudent to tension the spokes close to the maximum that the
>rim can withstand, as well as having even tension amongst the spokes on
>each side of the wheel. A tensiometer allows you to do these things
>much easier than plucking the spokes for tone.

I'm sold

<snip>

>You don't say how the wheelbuilder determined the tension in the spokes;
>he may well have used a tensiometer.

I'm pretty sure he didn't use a tensiometer, but I could be wrong.
He's built a lot of wheels over the last 20 years. His experience
includes some years as a mechanic on professional racing teams in
Europe and the USA. They have quite high standards

One other thing. The original build is a prime example of the result
of not asking enough questions. The bike was new two years ago. The
frame is yellow, black and pearl grey. I figured that black rims and
black spokes would look very sexy. They did But ... when the shop
manager (not the wheel builder - Matt - he wasn't at the shop at the
time) said that he didn't think that Mavic Open Pro came in black but
he'd check ... "Oh! They do. And they're a bit cheaper." I said
"Sounds good". What I should have said is "Why are they cheaper?" The
reason is that they are not Open Pro CD. Amongst other things,
according to Matt, the "CD" means that the wheel is easier to true and
holds its 'true' much better. I should also have asked if the black
spokes performed as well as the plain spokes. They don't for heavy
riders. They seem to lose their tension a bit and when they do they
are noisy.

The moral of the story is that if you are over, say, 80 Kg, you need
to emphasise function over form. OK, the shop manager didn't know that
the black option could be a problem for a heavy rider. He's an elite
athlete and he's used to fit people. So I'm not annoyed with the shop.
And it only cost me $50 (plus embarrassment in the bunch because I was
riding a noisy bike).

Regards,
Richard.