AERO Mashes Mtns!!(1a,b)

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by A&B, May 6, 2003.

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  1. A&B

    A&B Guest

    Mtns mash back!!! I got a wild hair at 2am Sat morning and decided to mosey the 150miles to
    Chattanooga, TN and do the "3-State 3-Mountain" Century ride this past Saturday. Steven H. on his
    ti-Pursuit, and one other idiot, er, I mean, fellow benter, on a VRex, were present, otherwise no
    other bents. Needless to say it was kinda of a lumpy route:
    http://www.chattbike.com/events/3_state/3st100.htm One of the reasons I went was to see if I could
    do the climbs as well as how it would be pedaling and balancing with my feet at essentially head
    level. Things went pretty well until Lookout Mtn at mile 80. Described by Steven as "that Bataan
    Death March". A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an 11% grade but finishes with @ 700 yards of 33%
    according to TOPO USA. What a bugger. A 16" gear felt like I was pulling a piano. I was at
    4.5mph for the majority of the thing. Stopped twice on the 33% section, but made it to the top
    pedaling. Anyhow. OTOH The AERO continued to amaze other riders on aerodynamics. One guy said "I
    was going 48mph and you passed me with your brakes on." Would I do the ride again? Maybe. On a
    bent? No. Some pics and TOPO's of a couple of the climbs:
    http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal bill g
    (4a) My effort at spin
    (4b) TomS, "Subject" footnotes, neener ;-)
     
    Tags:


  2. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment. I'm a bit skeptical of the 33% grade, because there
    just aren't many of those critters in the world, but I haven't seen it. I don't think I've ever been
    up anything that steep that was longer than a short driveway, and I had a run at it. I think
    sections of the Mountains of Misery were around 20% with one category I and one category II, and
    they were no fun. I'm skipping it this year, until I can find a way to reduce my weight burden by
    about 20%. Maybe that Atkins diet would do it.

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Mtns mash back!!! I got a wild hair at 2am Sat morning and decided to mosey the 150miles to
    > Chattanooga, TN and do the "3-State 3-Mountain" Century ride this past Saturday. Steven H. on his
    > ti-Pursuit, and one other idiot, er, I mean, fellow benter, on a VRex, were present, otherwise no
    > other bents. Needless to say it was kinda of a lumpy route:
    > http://www.chattbike.com/events/3_state/3st100.htm One of the reasons I went was to see if I could
    > do the climbs as well as how it would be pedaling and balancing with my feet at essentially head
    > level. Things went pretty well until Lookout Mtn at mile 80. Described by Steven as "that Bataan
    > Death March". A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an 11% grade but finishes with @ 700 yards of 33%
    > according to TOPO USA. What a bugger. A 16" gear felt like I was pulling a piano. I was at
    > 4.5mph for the majority of the thing. Stopped twice on the 33% section, but made it to the top
    > pedaling. Anyhow. OTOH The AERO continued to amaze other riders on aerodynamics. One guy said "I
    > was going 48mph and you passed me with your brakes on." Would I do the ride again? Maybe. On a
    > bent? No. Some pics and TOPO's of a couple of the climbs:
    > http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal bill g
    > (1a) My effort at spin
    > (1b) TomS, "Subject" footnotes, neener ;-)
     
  3. A&B

    A&B Guest

    Scott, Thanks. I think I surprised both myself and a bunch of roadies that I was able to stay with
    some of the groups on some of the climbs. My goal was first to not walk 'em and second to not be
    last up in a group. I did ok until the lung chunker/thigh burner at mile 80. I had to stop twice on
    the last 400 yds. As far as the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1). If you look at the link to
    ChattBike, the profile of Lookout Mtn, or my TOPO pic you can see where the road turns straight up
    the grade at about ~1100' from the top. There are two transitions in that section. The first goes
    from a grade of 1 (my first bail, er, strategy session) to between 21-25 in the next 50' and stays
    in the 20's for the next 200'. (There were actually DF'ers doing the back and forth across the road
    switchback thing like the pros in the SF Grand Prix last year.) Then you get another transition (2nd
    place I stopped). It goes from a grade of 4-5 for the next 100' and builds to a max of 33% in the
    300'. It doesn't maintain that for long but the remainder is still in the mid to high 20's. A true
    knee-burner even with my 16" low. What was funny was all the water bottles, some full, that folks
    chunked at the rest stop immediately before or on the climb. Good luck on losing your 20% "Grade".
    Seriously. bill g
    (1) Wasn't it Disraeli that said: "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Delorme" ;-)

    Freewheeling wrote:
    >
    > Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment. I'm a bit skeptical of the 33% grade, because
    > there just aren't many of those critters in the world, but I haven't seen it. I don't think I've
    > ever been up anything that steep that was longer than a short driveway, and I had a run at it. I
    > think sections of the Mountains of Misery were around 20% with one category I and one category II,
    > and they were no fun. I'm skipping it this year, until I can find a way to reduce my weight burden
    > by about 20%. Maybe that Atkins diet would do it.
    >
    > --
    > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    >
    > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Mtns mash back!!! I got a wild hair at 2am Sat morning and decided to mosey the 150miles to
    > > Chattanooga, TN and do the "3-State 3-Mountain" Century ride this past Saturday. Steven H. on
    > > his ti-Pursuit, and one other idiot, er, I mean, fellow benter, on a VRex, were present,
    > > otherwise no other bents. Needless to say it was kinda of a lumpy route:
    > > http://www.chattbike.com/events/3_state/3st100.htm One of the reasons I went was to see if I
    > > could do the climbs as well as how it would be pedaling and balancing with my feet at
    > > essentially head level. Things went pretty well until Lookout Mtn at mile 80. Described by
    > > Steven as "that Bataan Death March". A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an 11% grade but finishes
    > > with @ 700 yards of 33% according to TOPO USA. What a bugger. A 16" gear felt like I was pulling
    > > a piano. I was at
    > > 4.5mph for the majority of the thing. Stopped twice on the 33% section, but made it to the top
    > > pedaling. Anyhow. OTOH The AERO continued to amaze other riders on aerodynamics. One guy said
    > > "I was going 48mph and you passed me with your brakes on." Would I do the ride again? Maybe.
    > > On a bent? No. Some pics and TOPO's of a couple of the climbs:
    > > http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal bill g
    > > (1a) My effort at spin
    > > (1b) TomS, "Subject" footnotes, neener ;-)
     
  4. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    I wonder what Delorme says about the Mountain Lake and John's Creek Mountain climbs on the MoM? A
    few of us on this newsgroup have done that ride (although I was the slowest). The final, and
    toughest, climb doesn't start until after mile 100. I might give it another shot if I get an Aero.

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Scott, Thanks. I think I surprised both myself and a bunch of roadies that I was able to stay with
    > some of the groups on some of the climbs. My goal was first to not walk 'em and second to not be
    > last up in a group. I did ok until the lung chunker/thigh burner at mile 80. I had to stop twice
    > on the last 400 yds. As far as the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1). If you look at the link to
    > ChattBike, the profile of Lookout Mtn, or my TOPO pic you can see where the road turns straight up
    > the grade at about ~1100' from the top. There are two transitions in that section. The first goes
    > from a grade of 1 (my first bail, er, strategy session) to between 21-25 in the next 50' and stays
    > in the 20's for the next 200'. (There were actually DF'ers doing the back and forth across the
    > road switchback thing like the pros in the SF Grand Prix last year.) Then you get another
    > transition (2nd place I stopped). It goes from a grade of 4-5 for the next 100' and builds to a
    > max of 33% in the 300'. It doesn't maintain that for long but the remainder is still in the mid to
    > high 20's. A true knee-burner even with my 16" low. What was funny was all the water bottles, some
    > full, that folks chunked at the rest stop immediately before or on the climb. Good luck on losing
    > your 20% "Grade". Seriously. bill g
    > (1) Wasn't it Disraeli that said: "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Delorme" ;-)
    >
    > Freewheeling wrote:
    > >
    > > Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment. I'm a bit skeptical of
    the
    > > 33% grade, because there just aren't many of those critters in the
    world,
    > > but I haven't seen it. I don't think I've ever been up anything that
    steep
    > > that was longer than a short driveway, and I had a run at it. I think sections of the Mountains
    > > of Misery were around 20% with one category I
    and
    > > one category II, and they were no fun. I'm skipping it this year, until
    I
    > > can find a way to reduce my weight burden by about 20%. Maybe that
    Atkins
    > > diet would do it.
    > >
    > > --
    > > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    > >
    > > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Mtns mash back!!! I got a wild hair at 2am Sat morning and decided to mosey the 150miles to
    > > > Chattanooga, TN and do the "3-State 3-Mountain" Century ride this past Saturday. Steven H. on
    > > > his ti-Pursuit, and one other idiot, er, I mean, fellow benter, on a VRex, were present,
    > > > otherwise no other
    bents.
    > > > Needless to say it was kinda of a lumpy route:
    > > > http://www.chattbike.com/events/3_state/3st100.htm One of the reasons I went was to see if I
    > > > could do the climbs as well
    as
    > > > how it would be pedaling and balancing with my feet at essentially
    head
    > > > level. Things went pretty well until Lookout Mtn at mile 80. Described by Steven as "that
    > > > Bataan Death March". A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an 11% grade but finishes with @ 700 yards
    > > > of 33% according to TOPO USA. What a bugger. A 16" gear felt like I was pulling a piano. I
    > > > was at
    > > > 4.5mph for the majority of the thing. Stopped twice on the 33%
    section,
    > > > but made it to the top pedaling. Anyhow. OTOH The AERO continued to amaze other riders on
    > > > aerodynamics. One guy said "I was going 48mph and you passed me with your brakes on." Would I
    > > > do the ride again? Maybe. On a bent? No. Some pics and TOPO's of a couple of the climbs:
    > > > http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal bill g
    > > > (1a) My effort at spin
    > > > (1b) TomS, "Subject" footnotes, neener ;-)
     
  5. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Freewheeling wrote:
    > I think sections of the Mountains of Misery were around 20% with one category I and one category
    > II, and they were no fun. I'm skipping it this year, until I can find a way to reduce my weight
    > burden by about 20%....

    Scott,

    I suggest getting a tank of compressed helium and a balloon. Attach and inflate the balloon before
    the final climb. Problem solved. ;)

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  6. Scott wrote:

    > I'm a bit skeptical of the 33% grade, because there just aren't many of those critters in
    > the world,

    We've got a fair few in the Land of UK - mid-Wales, North Yorkshire and the Lake District all have
    some. I *just* managed The Devil's Staircase - http://tinyurl.com/b9ru -which IIRC is around 33% on
    my mountain bike, but would not wish to repeat the experience in a hurry.

    Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  7. Jon Meinecke

    Jon Meinecke Guest

    On Wed, 07 May 2003 19:06:00 -0500, a&b <[email protected]> wrote:

    >As far as the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1).

    I've found the elevation profiles from TopoUSA and other similar programs to be as accurate as the
    data they are based on. %^)

    None of the programs/data sets seem to know about the finer details of road construction, cuts and
    fills, etc.. A GPS track log would be more accurate, but the elevation profiles interesting and
    useful as a general measure of difficulty of the route.

    What I wish the mapping data sets included is more road type and surface detail. On numerous
    occasions, when trying out new routes I've plotted in a mapping program, I end up on rough
    gravel roads.

    Jon Meinecke
     
  8. Bg

    Bg Guest

    I'll look 'em up and try to post a 3D on the WebShots page. bill g

    Freewheeling wrote:

    > I wonder what Delorme says about the Mountain Lake and John's Creek Mountain climbs on the MoM? A
    > few of us on this newsgroup have done that ride (although I was the slowest). The final, and
    > toughest, climb doesn't start until after mile 100. I might give it another shot if I get an Aero.
    >
    > --
    > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    >
    > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Scott, Thanks. I think I surprised both myself and a bunch of roadies that I was able to stay
    > > with some of the groups on some of the climbs. My goal was first to not walk 'em and second to
    > > not be last up in a group. I did ok until the lung chunker/thigh burner at mile 80. I had to
    > > stop twice on the last 400 yds. As far as the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1). If you look
    > > at the link to ChattBike, the profile of Lookout Mtn, or my TOPO pic you can see where the road
    > > turns straight up the grade at about ~1100' from the top. There are two transitions in that
    > > section. The first goes from a grade of 1 (my first bail, er, strategy session) to between 21-25
    > > in the next 50' and stays in the 20's for the next 200'. (There were actually DF'ers doing the
    > > back and forth across the road switchback thing like the pros in the SF Grand Prix last year.)
    > > Then you get another transition (2nd place I stopped). It goes from a grade of 4-5 for the next
    > > 100' and builds to a max of 33% in the 300'. It doesn't maintain that for long but the remainder
    > > is still in the mid to high 20's. A true knee-burner even with my 16" low. What was funny was
    > > all the water bottles, some full, that folks chunked at the rest stop immediately before or on
    > > the climb. Good luck on losing your 20% "Grade". Seriously. bill g
    > > (1) Wasn't it Disraeli that said: "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Delorme" ;-)
    > >
    > > Freewheeling wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment. I'm a bit skeptical of
    > the
    > > > 33% grade, because there just aren't many of those critters in the
    > world,
    > > > but I haven't seen it. I don't think I've ever been up anything that
    > steep
    > > > that was longer than a short driveway, and I had a run at it. I think sections of the
    > > > Mountains of Misery were around 20% with one category I
    > and
    > > > one category II, and they were no fun. I'm skipping it this year, until
    > I
    > > > can find a way to reduce my weight burden by about 20%. Maybe that
    > Atkins
    > > > diet would do it.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    > > >
    > > > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Mtns mash back!!! I got a wild hair at 2am Sat morning and decided to mosey the 150miles to
    > > > > Chattanooga, TN and do the "3-State 3-Mountain" Century ride this past Saturday. Steven H.
    > > > > on his ti-Pursuit, and one other idiot, er, I mean, fellow benter, on a VRex, were present,
    > > > > otherwise no other
    > bents.
    > > > > Needless to say it was kinda of a lumpy route:
    > > > > http://www.chattbike.com/events/3_state/3st100.htm One of the reasons I went was to see if I
    > > > > could do the climbs as well
    > as
    > > > > how it would be pedaling and balancing with my feet at essentially
    > head
    > > > > level. Things went pretty well until Lookout Mtn at mile 80. Described by Steven as "that
    > > > > Bataan Death March". A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an 11% grade but finishes with @ 700
    > > > > yards of 33% according to TOPO USA. What a bugger. A 16" gear felt like I was pulling a
    > > > > piano. I was at
    > > > > 4.5mph for the majority of the thing. Stopped twice on the 33%
    > section,
    > > > > but made it to the top pedaling. Anyhow. OTOH The AERO continued to amaze other riders on
    > > > > aerodynamics. One guy said "I was going 48mph and you passed me with your brakes on." Would
    > > > > I do the ride again? Maybe. On a bent? No. Some pics and TOPO's of a couple of the climbs:
    > > > > http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal bill g
    > > > > (1a) My effort at spin
    > > > > (1b) TomS, "Subject" footnotes, neener ;-)
     
  9. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Mtns mash back!!!
    A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an
    > 11% grade but finishes with @ 700 yards of 33% according to TOPO USA.

    Few roads in America can boast of a grade of 33%. I believe there is one that is close and IIRC it
    is Filbert Street in San Francisco at 31.5%. TopoUSA does not accurately place roads or honor road
    cuts. A grade of 33% is about 18°. Interstate highways are constructed with a max grade of ~8% or
    4.5°. It is probable that the final 700 yds are 12-15%

    The Category 1 climb at the end of MoM that Scott refers to averages ~12% over 3-5 mi. and it is one
    steep Mutha.

    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  10. Bg

    Bg Guest

    Scott, Ok here you go in the MoM folder: http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal-date The Mt Lake
    road is the one in the center of the pic heading toward the lake. Those are some brutal climbs. You
    got nothing to be ashamed of not making the thing on Mt Lake. The grades are bad enough but
    negotiating a 37% switchback on a bent at a time, if you were like me, when your thighs are on fire
    really makes it tough. Plus, by the time I hit the 30%'er on 3 States, I'd had almost as much fun on
    hills as I could stand for one day. I don't think an Aero, or really any bent with high BB, is the
    answer. Feet get so high it seems like it changes the "ergonomics of pedaling" if that makes any
    sense. Or maybe any bent. It gets so difficult to balance at 4mph and my front wheel was light
    enough to hop sideways a couple of inches at one point. bill g

    Freewheeling wrote:

    > I wonder what Delorme says about the Mountain Lake and John's Creek Mountain climbs on the MoM? A
    > few of us on this newsgroup have done that ride (although I was the slowest). The final, and
    > toughest, climb doesn't start until after mile 100. I might give it another shot if I get an Aero.
    >
    > --
    > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    >
    > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Scott, Thanks. I think I surprised both myself and a bunch of roadies that I was able to stay
    > > with some of the groups on some of the climbs. My goal was first to not walk 'em and second to
    > > not be last up in a group. I did ok until the lung chunker/thigh burner at mile 80. I had to
    > > stop twice on the last 400 yds. As far as the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1). If you look
    > > at the link to ChattBike, the profile of Lookout Mtn, or my TOPO pic you can see where the road
    > > turns straight up the grade at about ~1100' from the top. There are two transitions in that
    > > section. The first goes from a grade of 1 (my first bail, er, strategy session) to between 21-25
    > > in the next 50' and stays in the 20's for the next 200'. (There were actually DF'ers doing the
    > > back and forth across the road switchback thing like the pros in the SF Grand Prix last year.)
    > > Then you get another transition (2nd place I stopped). It goes from a grade of 4-5 for the next
    > > 100' and builds to a max of 33% in the 300'. It doesn't maintain that for long but the remainder
    > > is still in the mid to high 20's. A true knee-burner even with my 16" low. What was funny was
    > > all the water bottles, some full, that folks chunked at the rest stop immediately before or on
    > > the climb. Good luck on losing your 20% "Grade". Seriously. bill g
    > > (1) Wasn't it Disraeli that said: "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Delorme" ;-)
    > >
    > > Freewheeling wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment. I'm a bit skeptical of
    > the
    > > > 33% grade, because there just aren't many of those critters in the
    > world,
    > > > but I haven't seen it. I don't think I've ever been up anything that
    > steep
    > > > that was longer than a short driveway, and I had a run at it. I think sections of the
    > > > Mountains of Misery were around 20% with one category I
    > and
    > > > one category II, and they were no fun. I'm skipping it this year, until
    > I
    > > > can find a way to reduce my weight burden by about 20%. Maybe that
    > Atkins
    > > > diet would do it.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    > > >
    > > > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Mtns mash back!!! I got a wild hair at 2am Sat morning and decided to mosey the 150miles to
    > > > > Chattanooga, TN and do the "3-State 3-Mountain" Century ride this past Saturday. Steven H.
    > > > > on his ti-Pursuit, and one other idiot, er, I mean, fellow benter, on a VRex, were present,
    > > > > otherwise no other
    > bents.
    > > > > Needless to say it was kinda of a lumpy route:
    > > > > http://www.chattbike.com/events/3_state/3st100.htm One of the reasons I went was to see if I
    > > > > could do the climbs as well
    > as
    > > > > how it would be pedaling and balancing with my feet at essentially
    > head
    > > > > level. Things went pretty well until Lookout Mtn at mile 80. Described by Steven as "that
    > > > > Bataan Death March". A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an 11% grade but finishes with @ 700
    > > > > yards of 33% according to TOPO USA. What a bugger. A 16" gear felt like I was pulling a
    > > > > piano. I was at
    > > > > 4.5mph for the majority of the thing. Stopped twice on the 33%
    > section,
    > > > > but made it to the top pedaling. Anyhow. OTOH The AERO continued to amaze other riders on
    > > > > aerodynamics. One guy said "I was going 48mph and you passed me with your brakes on." Would
    > > > > I do the ride again? Maybe. On a bent? No. Some pics and TOPO's of a couple of the climbs:
    > > > > http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal bill g
    > > > > (1a) My effort at spin
    > > > > (1b) TomS, "Subject" footnotes, neener ;-)
     
  11. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Scott, Ok here you go in the MoM folder: http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal-date The Mt
    > Lake road is the one in the center of the pic heading toward the lake. Those are some brutal
    > climbs. You got nothing to be ashamed of not making the thing on Mt Lake. The grades are bad
    > enough but negotiating a 37% switchback on a bent at a time, if you were like me, when your thighs
    > are on fire really makes it tough. Plus, by the time I hit the 30%'er on 3 States, I'd had almost
    > as much fun on hills as I could stand for one day. I don't think an Aero, or really any bent with
    > high BB, is the answer. Feet get so high it seems like it changes the "ergonomics of pedaling" if
    > that makes any sense. Or maybe any bent. It gets so difficult to balance at 4mph and my front
    > wheel was light enough to hop sideways a couple of inches at one point. bill g

    This is the hairpin near the top of John's Creek Mtn.

    http://www.clee.org/MoM2002/image022.htm

    And here is Scott suceeding on the steepest hairpin on the Doe Creek final climb.

    http://www.clee.org/MoM2002/image027.htm

    Scott has nothing to ba ashamed of ... He finished!

    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  12. Bg

    Bg Guest

    Cletus, What I mistakenly edited out when re-writing this was "..700 yards with an avg of 15 and a
    max of...". TOPO agrees with your numbers Mt Lakes. bg

    Cletus Lee wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Mtns mash back!!!
    > A 2.3 mile climb, it averages an
    > > 11% grade but finishes with @ 700 yards of 33% according to TOPO USA.
    >
    > Few roads in America can boast of a grade of 33%. I believe there is one that is close and IIRC it
    > is Filbert Street in San Francisco at 31.5%. TopoUSA does not accurately place roads or honor road
    > cuts. A grade of 33% is about 18°. Interstate highways are constructed with a max grade of ~8% or
    > 4.5°. It is probable that the final 700 yds are 12-15%
    >
    > The Category 1 climb at the end of MoM that Scott refers to averages ~12% over 3-5 mi. and it is
    > one steep Mutha.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  13. Bg

    Bg Guest

    Cletus, Well not having been there my estimation was it was a switchback. And my apologies to Scott
    because I thought it was he that bailed on it. During the thread last year about MoM it seems that
    someone had, and whoever it was was gonna train better, etc and then it segued into anything can be
    climbed with low enough gears. bg

    Cletus Lee wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Scott, Ok here you go in the MoM folder: http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal-date The Mt
    > > Lake road is the one in the center of the pic heading toward the lake. Those are some brutal
    > > climbs. You got nothing to be ashamed of not making the thing on Mt Lake. The grades are bad
    > > enough but negotiating a 37% switchback on a bent at a time, if you were like me, when your
    > > thighs are on fire really makes it tough. Plus, by the time I hit the 30%'er on 3 States, I'd
    > > had almost as much fun on hills as I could stand for one day. I don't think an Aero, or really
    > > any bent with high BB, is the answer. Feet get so high it seems like it changes the "ergonomics
    > > of pedaling" if that makes any sense. Or maybe any bent. It gets so difficult to balance at 4mph
    > > and my front wheel was light enough to hop sideways a couple of inches at one point. bill g
    >
    > This is the hairpin near the top of John's Creek Mtn.
    >
    > http://www.clee.org/MoM2002/image022.htm
    >
    > And here is Scott suceeding on the steepest hairpin on the Doe Creek final climb.
    >
    > http://www.clee.org/MoM2002/image027.htm
    >
    > Scott has nothing to ba ashamed of ... He finished!
    >
    > --
    >
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  14. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Bill:

    Thanks for digging that up. Very interesting. Actually, had I been able to maintain a 4mph pace on
    the steepest ascents I'd have been sitting pretty. The problem is that I was often dropping below 3
    mph, which is a pretty scarey proposition when you're looking up at the crest of Hokusai's *Wave*. A
    lot of cursing and spastic arm and body gyrations.

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "bg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Scott, Ok here you go in the MoM folder: http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal-date The Mt
    > Lake road is the one in the center of the pic heading toward the
    lake.
    > Those are some brutal climbs. You got nothing to be ashamed of not making
    the
    > thing on Mt Lake. The grades are bad enough but negotiating a 37%
    switchback on
    > a bent at a time, if you were like me, when your thighs are on fire really
    makes
    > it tough. Plus, by the time I hit the 30%'er on 3 States, I'd had almost
    as much
    > fun on hills as I could stand for one day. I don't think an Aero, or really any bent with high BB,
    > is the answer.
    Feet get
    > so high it seems like it changes the "ergonomics of pedaling" if that
    makes any
    > sense. Or maybe any bent. It gets so difficult to balance at 4mph and my
    front
    > wheel was light enough to hop sideways a couple of inches at one point. bill g
    >
    > Freewheeling wrote:
    >
    > > I wonder what Delorme says about the Mountain Lake and John's Creek
    Mountain
    > > climbs on the MoM? A few of us on this newsgroup have done that ride (although I was the
    > > slowest). The final, and toughest, climb doesn't
    start
    > > until after mile 100. I might give it another shot if I get an Aero.
    > >
    > > --
    > > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    > >
    > > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Scott, Thanks. I think I surprised both myself and a bunch of roadies that I was able to stay
    > > > with some of the groups on some of the climbs. My goal was
    first
    > > > to not walk 'em and second to not be last up in a group. I did ok
    until
    > > > the lung chunker/thigh burner at mile 80. I had to stop twice on the last 400 yds. As far as
    > > > the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1). If you look at the link to ChattBike, the profile of
    > > > Lookout Mtn, or
    my
    > > > TOPO pic you can see where the road turns straight up the grade at
    about
    > > > ~1100' from the top. There are two transitions in that section. The first goes from a grade of
    > > > 1 (my first bail, er, strategy session) to between 21-25 in the
    next
    > > > 50' and stays in the 20's for the next 200'. (There were actually
    DF'ers
    > > > doing the back and forth across the road switchback thing like the
    pros
    > > > in the SF Grand Prix last year.) Then you get another transition (2nd place I stopped). It
    > > > goes from a grade of 4-5 for the next 100' and builds to a max of 33% in the 300'. It doesn't
    > > > maintain that for long but the remainder is still in the
    mid
    > > > to high 20's. A true knee-burner even with my 16" low. What was funny was all the water
    > > > bottles, some full, that folks
    chunked
    > > > at the rest stop immediately before or on the climb. Good luck on losing your 20% "Grade".
    > > > Seriously. bill g
    > > > (1) Wasn't it Disraeli that said: "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Delorme" ;-)
    > > >
    > > > Freewheeling wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment. I'm a bit
    skeptical of
    > > the
    > > > > 33% grade, because there just aren't many of those critters in the
    > > world,
    > > > > but I haven't seen it. I don't think I've ever been up anything
    that
    > > steep
    > > > > that was longer than a short driveway, and I had a run at it. I
    think
    > > > > sections of the Mountains of Misery were around 20% with one
    category I
    > > and
    > > > > one category II, and they were no fun. I'm skipping it this year,
    until
    > > I
    > > > > can find a way to reduce my weight burden by about 20%. Maybe that
    > > Atkins
    > > > > diet would do it.
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    > > > >
    > > > > "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > Mtns mash back!!! I got a wild hair at 2am Sat morning and decided to mosey the
    150miles
    > > > > > to Chattanooga, TN and do the "3-State 3-Mountain" Century ride
    this
    > > > > > past Saturday. Steven H. on his ti-Pursuit, and one other idiot,
    er, I
    > > > > > mean, fellow benter, on a VRex, were present, otherwise no other
    > > bents.
    > > > > > Needless to say it was kinda of a lumpy route:
    > > > > > http://www.chattbike.com/events/3_state/3st100.htm One of the reasons I went was to see if
    > > > > > I could do the climbs as
    well
    > > as
    > > > > > how it would be pedaling and balancing with my feet at essentially
    > > head
    > > > > > level. Things went pretty well until Lookout Mtn at mile 80. Described by Steven as "that
    > > > > > Bataan Death March". A 2.3 mile climb, it averages
    an
    > > > > > 11% grade but finishes with @ 700 yards of 33% according to TOPO
    USA.
    > > > > > What a bugger. A 16" gear felt like I was pulling a piano. I was
    at
    > > > > > 4.5mph for the majority of the thing. Stopped twice on the 33%
    > > section,
    > > > > > but made it to the top pedaling. Anyhow. OTOH The AERO continued to amaze other riders on
    > > > > > aerodynamics. One guy
    said
    > > > > > "I was going 48mph and you passed me with your brakes on." Would I do the ride again?
    > > > > > Maybe. On a bent? No. Some pics and TOPO's of a couple of the climbs:
    > > > > > http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal bill g
    > > > > > (1a) My effort at spin
    > > > > > (1b) TomS, "Subject" footnotes, neener ;-)
     
  15. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Cletus:

    "I think I psyched myself out of it more than anything else. When I got a cramp after failing to
    negotiate the Johns Creek Mtn hairpin, I bailed."

    I think your analysis is correct. I did the same thing the year before. But the year we did it
    together I knew those last two hairpin climbs were very near the top, so I just hypered it on up. My
    doubts came later on the way up Doe Creek, but thanks to having you there, telling me how far I had
    to go, I had some incentive to finish. I think all the hills I did last year sorta took the fun out
    of riding, so it may be a while before I try that again. Thanks for the comradeship.

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Cletus, Well not having been there my estimation was it was a switchback. And my apologies to
    > > Scott because I thought it was he that bailed on it.
    During the
    > > thread last year about MoM it seems that someone had, and whoever it was
    was gonna
    > > train better, etc and then it segued into anything can be climbed with
    low enough
    > > gears.
    >
    > That was me that bailed out. I lost it on the hairpin turn on John's Creek
    Mtn in my picture.
    > It was not a lack of training on my part but rather I think a fore
    knowledge of the terrain. I
    > think I psyched myself out of it more than anything else. When I got a
    cramp after failing to
    > negotiate the Johns Creek Mtn hairpin, I bailed.
    >
    > I think it is Tom Sherman that still has something to prove. ;-)
    >
    > --
    >
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  16. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Jon:

    The problem with the GPS profiles is that there can be significant errors from one datapoint to the
    next, so they just don't provide reliable info for shorter sections of road, and that's usually
    where the EXTREME grades are.

    I suppose the Highway Dept. has the definitive info on the grades, since it would be part of the
    construction data. And I've never heard of a Highway Dept. in the US that constructed a stretch of
    37% road, not even the logging roads in the Pacific Coast Range are that steep. But what the heck, I
    can always qualify it by saying "Well, according to Delorme..."
    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "Jon Meinecke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 07 May 2003 19:06:00 -0500, a&b <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >As far as the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1).
    >
    > I've found the elevation profiles from TopoUSA and other similar programs to be as accurate as the
    > data they are based on. %^)
    >
    > None of the programs/data sets seem to know about the finer details of road construction, cuts and
    > fills, etc.. A GPS track log would be more accurate, but the elevation profiles interesting and
    > useful as a general measure of difficulty of the route.
    >
    > What I wish the mapping data sets included is more road type and surface detail. On numerous
    > occasions, when trying out new routes I've plotted in a mapping program, I end up on rough
    > gravel roads.
    >
    > Jon Meinecke
     
  17. A&B

    A&B Guest

    Scott, That makes sense because the extreme stuff is very brief/short distance wise as you scroll
    the pointer over the route. Seems like it's usually switchback or hairpin territory. I just wish
    they'd do 'em like you're supposed to do trail switchbacks and put a flat spot before starting the
    grade gain again. bill g

    Freewheeling wrote:
    >
    > Jon:
    >
    > The problem with the GPS profiles is that there can be significant errors from one datapoint to
    > the next, so they just don't provide reliable info for shorter sections of road, and that's
    > usually where the EXTREME grades are.
    >
    > I suppose the Highway Dept. has the definitive info on the grades, since it would be part of the
    > construction data. And I've never heard of a Highway Dept. in the US that constructed a stretch of
    > 37% road, not even the logging roads in the Pacific Coast Range are that steep. But what the heck,
    > I can always qualify it by saying "Well, according to Delorme..."
    > --
    > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    >
    > "Jon Meinecke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Wed, 07 May 2003 19:06:00 -0500, a&b <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >As far as the grade, I'm just going by Delorme(1).
    > >
    > > I've found the elevation profiles from TopoUSA and other similar programs to be as accurate as
    > > the data they are based on. %^)
    > >
    > > None of the programs/data sets seem to know about the finer details of road construction, cuts
    > > and fills, etc.. A GPS track log would be more accurate, but the elevation profiles interesting
    > > and useful as a general measure of difficulty of the route.
    > >
    > > What I wish the mapping data sets included is more road type and surface detail. On numerous
    > > occasions, when trying out new routes I've plotted in a mapping program, I end up on rough
    > > gravel roads.
    > >
    > > Jon Meinecke
     
  18. A&B

    A&B Guest

    Oh, okay. Sorry for the confusion. Bail or not, that is a lot tougher ride than the 3 States route
    and you did bents and yourself proud to get to that point. bill g

    Cletus Lee wrote:

    > That was me that bailed out. I lost it on the hairpin turn on John's Creek Mtn in my picture. It
    > was not a lack of training on my part but rather I think a fore knowledge of the terrain. I think
    > I psyched myself out of it more than anything else. When I got a cramp after failing to negotiate
    > the Johns Creek Mtn hairpin, I bailed.
    >
    > I think it is Tom Sherman that still has something to prove. ;-)
    >
    > --
    >
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  19. A&B

    A&B Guest

    Scott, Hokusai's Wave indeed! Great analogy. The benter-men facing the violence of the climb but
    confident they can make it because of their skills. Your description of the "CSA&BG"(Cursing,Spastic
    Arm and Body Gyrations) is pretty funny. That's why I think there really are limits on grades on
    which bents are practical. I mean, when the DF'ers stopped or started, or pedaled up the 30% stuff,
    they just pretty much did like they always
    do. When I did the same on my bent on the 30% stuff I was afflicted with CSA&BG. bill g

    Freewheeling wrote:
    >
    > Bill:
    >
    > Thanks for digging that up. Very interesting. Actually, had I been able to maintain a 4mph pace on
    > the steepest ascents I'd have been sitting pretty. The problem is that I was often dropping below
    > 3 mph, which is a pretty scarey proposition when you're looking up at the crest of Hokusai's
    > *Wave*. A lot of cursing and spastic arm and body gyrations.
    >
    > --
    > --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    >
    > "bg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Scott, Ok here you go in the MoM folder: http://community.webshots.com/user/ipedal-date
     
  20. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Jon Meinecke wrote:
    >
    > I've found the elevation profiles from TopoUSA and other similar programs to be as accurate as the
    > data they are based on. %^)

    I was looking at USGS Topo Quad the other day and noticed a pond with elevation contour
    lines on it. :)

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
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