Aero training wheels for Clydesdale?

[sideshow_bob]

I seem to get 1500-3000km before the wheels start breaking spokes. 2 of the wheels were built by reputable builders, one by a builder said to be one of the best in the country (he recommended and used straight-gauge spokes, a decision with which I wasn't entirely happy). Other 2 were factory built. None of the spokes ever broke at a point that wasn't 14G, or bigger.
My riding is all on Sydney's "sealed" roads. I no longer ride off gutters and ride around all potholes that I spot in time. They probably do get a bit of a hammering, nevertheless.
Additionally, and as you'd expect, I only ever (I think?) break'em in my 39/25 combination - maximal torque in that one.
Those Zondas seem pretty good - do you nurse them or batter them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't get them with Shimano freehubs? Is there a Fulcrum match for the Zonda?

Firstly I'll say Campag wheels are in my opinion about the best off the shelf wheels in the market. They do do Shimano freehub bodies. However, the mid profile wheels are not >30mm depth. Mostly around the 25-27mm range. The biggest issue you'll find with them, is that if you do break spokes walking into a Sydney LBS and asking for a straight pull blade in the right length will result in them looking at you like you have 2 heads (from experience). If you go this route, buy some spares and keep them on hand (in warning the genuine Campag kits are not cheap).

You are in Sydney and imo it would be worth having a chat to Greg Ryan at TWE.

I've got 3 sets of his wheels, 2 of them mid profiles. One set are Crostini R1.1/R1.2 with an OCR rear laced 24/28 in 2 cross with DT Swiss Aerolites. I've ridden these pretty hard, logging a lot of training miles on them (they are my primary training wheels) and also raced them around Horsley Park, where the finishing sprint probably has a lot in common with cobbled sections or Paris Roubaix. Thus far they are still in perfect true (about 6 months of use). I'm a little lighter than you though. He aslo does wheels based on a rim that he sources from the same place Easton get their Tempest rims. Side by side I can't tell the difference. I've got them laced 20/24 as race wheels. Same Aerolite spokes. He's got some bigger riders on the same wheels in 24/28 in 3 cross on the rear. Anyway worth calling him and having a chat.

If you want to check out his wheels I'd be happy enough for you to take a roll on a set of mine.

--brett

 

[Phill P]

Start off...campy wheels are great but the distributor in OZ needs a kick as the world famous ability to service Campy gear does not apply in this county. Spare parts are expensive and ahrd to come by.

Right.....

I actually agree that 4x spoking would produce a stiffer more durable rear wheel.

Drive side spokes fail because the offset dish requires higher spoke loads to balance the non drive side, and to add to that the majority of torque (on standard hubs) is transferred by the drive side spokes so they face large fluctuating loads. Large static load + large fluctuating load = faster fatigue failure.

When transmitting torque T=FxD where D is the distance normal to the force going through the center of rotation. When you go 4x the spokes come in more normal to hub flange and increase the effective distance to center of rotation. If the torque is the same as on a 3x wheel, but now D is larger for the 4x, then less force is transferred into the spoke. Less force therefore less extension (stiffer) less force therefore lower fluctuating loads resulting in better fatigue properties.
The problem with such normal spoking is crossing a spoke head which is nasty, hence track hubs have such large flanges to have a large "D" and use more normal spoking and get a stiffer stronger wheel for the massive torque during their sprints, but don't cross the neighbouring spoke head.


I also agree the a straight gauge wheel will be stiffer laterally and vertically than a butted spoked wheel. However stiffer spoking does not mean stronger or more durable, which was the point of this topic.
I'm not going to repeat something I read in a book unless it makes sense to me. I think you find in here most people bag "marketing" or miss information, but prefer to stick to justifiable physics/science/engineering.

Sure if you make a spoke too thin it won't be much good, but 14/15 butted spokes have proven over many many years to build great light weight durable wheels. The only time I'd recommend straight gauge spokes is on a downhill or freeride MTB wheel. They need the lateral stiffness and tend to fold or dent wheels more than brake spokes individually hence they use plenty of spokes.


In the long run, use the wheels you feel happy riding. We have our opion and have expressed it, you have yours and welcome to stick to it. What I feel sad about is when people get personal on a forum because they dissagree. Even if somebody's arguement doesn't make sense or is poorly worded why berate them?

 

[artemidorus]

Here's an update on the Clydesdale's search for the robust wheel.
Before condemning my 32 hole 105 hub to ebay, I decided to try one more build on it. I used a Velocity Deep V rim, with the machined braking surface, laced 3X on the drive side and radial on the non-drive side. DT Competitions, tensioned up to 110kgf on the drive side. Built by myself, so I'll ultimately take the credit or the blame. Here goes...

 

[tbick]

Wow, through all the diatribe did I miss how much you actually weigh?

I've been riding the Bontrager Race X Lite Aero for a couple of years now and with over 10k in miles they have not even had to be trued. I think they're around 1700g in weight so their not the lightest wheels on the market, but their "bombproof".

 

[artemidorus]

Wow, through all the diatribe did I miss how much you actually weigh?

I've been riding the Bontrager Race X Lite Aero for a couple of years now and with over 10k in miles they have not even had to be trued. I think they're around 1700g in weight so their not the lightest wheels on the market, but their "bombproof".

About 86-88kg at present, but I was at 91kg when the sorry spoke-breaking saga started. 1700g would be 200-300g under what I've got at present. But those wheels are a bit pricey for shallow-section rims - I could get Cosmic Carbone for not much more.

 

[daveornee]

I've just broken my fourth rear wheel on the same bike. 3 were shallow V rims (2 x Velocity Aerohead, 1 x CXP-22), laced 3x with 32 conventional spokes to a 105 hub, and one was an R550. Each wheel bar the R550 broke multiple spokes sequentially, usually trailing drive side. I abandoned the R550 after one spoke breakage.
I want to get a bombproof deep section (>=30mm) rear wheel or wheelset, ideally 20-24 spoke (I know I could make a 36spoke wheel, but this would be my last ditch option).
Recommendations?

Velocity Deep V built well.

 

[brycer]

For cheap prebuilts (A$500 a set) that last if you can still find them the Mavic Cosmos are very good - I am at the 100kg mark and never had a problem.

Ksyrium SLs have an excellent reputation for being strong. I am currently running Fulcrum 1s - about 600km on them so far and no issues noticed.