AFLD send a warning letter to 10 TDF riders!!!!
- Thread starter poulidor
- Start date
You make a good point. I think this year is the year to dope if you are a true contender. Another scandal where the Tour winner or near winner (Ras) is denied for the third year in a row could kill the Tour. I don't think anyone in the top 10 will 'test positive' whether their tests are positive or not. Now if you're an unknown domestique, I think you are in trouble - a perfect example to 'prove' that they are still doing everything possible to find and punish dopers.Geoff Vadar said:
It only takes half a dozen cheats taking a lot of the prizes and glory... and it really stinks for the clean guys. Everybody getting together and holding hands and saying they are not going to dope is great... but in reality... human nature being the same as it has been for thousands of years... self-interest will win out over integrity.thunder said:
So the only real way the fan and the cyclist can have confidence that the other guy isn't cheating... is if the testing is rigorous and comprehensive. Even then it's only limited to what they can test for. But the tendency for those paying for the tests will always be to minimise costs (ie tests), as it comes straight off the bottom-line. Even though thunder has made the valid point that a big investment in dope control would pay dividends down the line.
The one possible hope is that the French really are serious about weeding out doping from cycling... or at least the TdF for starters.
Poulidor said they are targeting cyclists for tests, rather than randomly selecting them. Anyone suspect Beltran was targeted because of his links to Disco?
So I read today that CAS is requesting evidence from the Spanish authorities on Piti (in particular the bloodbag #18). What are the chances that
(i) Valv wins this tour and
(ii) is found guilty for doping by CAS sometimes in december this year?
It is really disappointing that 2 years after, there's still this big shadow from OP looming over cycling. Today's stage winner Luis Leon Sanchez might be implicated in OP as well since he was member of Saiz' LS squad and there was one bag labeled L.L. (remember the J.J. bag which was Jaschke's).
(i) Valv wins this tour and
(ii) is found guilty for doping by CAS sometimes in december this year?
It is really disappointing that 2 years after, there's still this big shadow from OP looming over cycling. Today's stage winner Luis Leon Sanchez might be implicated in OP as well since he was member of Saiz' LS squad and there was one bag labeled L.L. (remember the J.J. bag which was Jaschke's).
I go by the law of the market: The market will do whatever causes the most people the most pain. By this law, I think (i) and (ii) are sure to occur.Cobblestones said:
I would be surprised if there was anyone on LS who was not doping. Sanchez is just like Contador. It is fanciful to think of either one of them not on the program.Cobblestones said:
It is coming up on that time for the riders to use their first units of blood. The blood profiles will be getting really wacky by Monday.
It will also be interesting to see what the HGH testing will reveal. If 80% of the riders were using HGH or testosterone last year as the Swiss study claimed then we should see riders caught for that, assuming the test works.
I hope the french test some urine samples with the exo-T test without relying on the testosterone ratio screen.
I don't get cycling anymore. I think the riders actions reflect the arbitrary nature of the punishments.
Astana wasn't invited to the tour on history when no personnel remain the same as the personnel on the team with bad doping practise on the basis that their actions bring disgrace upon the tour.
Surely Beltrans team should have been turfed out the moment this one blew. The reputation of this years Tour is now in question also.
Personally I think they should carry out the following move.
All riders will be considerd to be dopers at present
All riders will have the minimum time (dunno what this is) to get the direct effects of doping out of their systems.
All riders will be profiled at their teams expense. All teams will institute programs in much the same way that the Chipotle team is but their programs will be audited.
If a riders falls out of profile parameters he will be suspended and the team and the riders on that team (regardless of any team they subsequently join) will be kicked out of the race they're at and will not be welcome at the TdF (or any other blue riband event) for a period of 1 year.
If proof is obtained that they doped then they will be banned for 2 years and will be told that they're not welcome at the TdF again. The team will be allowed to reenter after 2 years.
If a rider is caught twice they they get a lifetime ban.
If a team is caught twice with riders doping or under suspicion of doping the team will not be welcome at any event full stop.
It goes without saying that any proof of doping means that all palmares will be stripped from your record and you will be ordered to pay back all winnings you have taken in those wins.
(the steps mentioend above would need some thinking to get ultimate consistency but the point is that they should be harsh and their should be an element of reputation and joint blame in it). If you have been associated with a bad guy then you could well be bad.
One of the points I would raise here is that it should be enough that you are under suspicion of doping to get you a ban - there's typically no smoke without fire.
How many riders would cause their teams and team mates to undergo a ban? How long would it be before riders who wanted a career in the sport would start ratting out their colleagues simply so that they could keep riding. Would you ride with someone who you thought could cause your career to go off track?
It could make mountain descents interesting. Why are you carrying that bike pump? We have a team car and spare wheels. Hey don't put that near my front wheel!!!
There should be no leeway. As a race organiser you can decide to accept anybody you like. Therefore if you think someone smells fishy you should be able to say no.
Lest anybody says there are other sports which are worse. I know that. I am not interested in those other sports. I'd like to know that the winners of the sport I like are people who can be trusted at least as far as there sporting prowess is concerned. As far as those who say but there will always be dopers - yes I agree but does this mean you shouldn't try to catch them.
Astana wasn't invited to the tour on history when no personnel remain the same as the personnel on the team with bad doping practise on the basis that their actions bring disgrace upon the tour.
Surely Beltrans team should have been turfed out the moment this one blew. The reputation of this years Tour is now in question also.
Personally I think they should carry out the following move.
All riders will be considerd to be dopers at present
All riders will have the minimum time (dunno what this is) to get the direct effects of doping out of their systems.
All riders will be profiled at their teams expense. All teams will institute programs in much the same way that the Chipotle team is but their programs will be audited.
If a riders falls out of profile parameters he will be suspended and the team and the riders on that team (regardless of any team they subsequently join) will be kicked out of the race they're at and will not be welcome at the TdF (or any other blue riband event) for a period of 1 year.
If proof is obtained that they doped then they will be banned for 2 years and will be told that they're not welcome at the TdF again. The team will be allowed to reenter after 2 years.
If a rider is caught twice they they get a lifetime ban.
If a team is caught twice with riders doping or under suspicion of doping the team will not be welcome at any event full stop.
It goes without saying that any proof of doping means that all palmares will be stripped from your record and you will be ordered to pay back all winnings you have taken in those wins.
(the steps mentioend above would need some thinking to get ultimate consistency but the point is that they should be harsh and their should be an element of reputation and joint blame in it). If you have been associated with a bad guy then you could well be bad.
One of the points I would raise here is that it should be enough that you are under suspicion of doping to get you a ban - there's typically no smoke without fire.
How many riders would cause their teams and team mates to undergo a ban? How long would it be before riders who wanted a career in the sport would start ratting out their colleagues simply so that they could keep riding. Would you ride with someone who you thought could cause your career to go off track?
It could make mountain descents interesting. Why are you carrying that bike pump? We have a team car and spare wheels. Hey don't put that near my front wheel!!!
There should be no leeway. As a race organiser you can decide to accept anybody you like. Therefore if you think someone smells fishy you should be able to say no.
Lest anybody says there are other sports which are worse. I know that. I am not interested in those other sports. I'd like to know that the winners of the sport I like are people who can be trusted at least as far as there sporting prowess is concerned. As far as those who say but there will always be dopers - yes I agree but does this mean you shouldn't try to catch them.
Be interesting to see what happens with Ricco and Cunego. As things stand both these guys could end up being between 5th and 10th (although this is arguable). If the results of repeated testing show a positive or their results were too suspicious then ASO would not have much of a conflict of interest in throwing them out - not too high that it really shakes the race. If they dont test positive but finish the race in a high position then it makes it likely that their results are genuine.
For the life of me, I just will never get why they seem to think it is in good business form to wait UNTIL the Tour every year to bring this stuff up and address such issues . . . .Cobblestones said:
that is extremely arbitrary and would seriously damage the sport. oh wait, that's already happened.nonns said:
let them all dope. just make them submit to what doping products they use. instead of making peds so taboo and black market, bring it all out in the open. b/c, at the end of the day, everything you wrote will never address the human desire to win at all costs. its too idealistic, and it will never happen.
Right! It is ok for them to destroy their lives taking peds.Klodifan said:
Have you ever considered that some of them may want to ride clean?
Hell yes! if they want to destroy their bodies, let them. I believe in liberty.TheDarkLord said:Right! It is ok for them to destroy their lives taking peds.
wanting to ride clean and the reality of the market are two separate issues. face it. wanting to win trumps wanting to ride clean any day. if they want to ride clean, ride for leisure.
peds should only be banned in non-human competition.
Well, I disagree. The top contenders sure may always be taking peds. But do you really think all 180 riders who come to the Tour want to take peds? IMO, many who take drugs do so in order to keep up with the rest - if everyone is doping, and one person doesn't, then chances are that he will not have a job as a pro rider. If you can clean up the sport such that the majority can ride without taking drugs, that is a huge improvement.Klodifan said:
I would be the prime suspect because of the explative, but I promise it isn't me.Frigo's Luggage said:
Similar threads
