Ahh! PITA tubulars and old bikes

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Squid-In-Traini, Aug 12, 2003.

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  1. Wow. So talk about me being a dumbass. Here's the chronology:

    1. Friend 1 talks about being interested in road bike
    2. Friend 1 and I go get an old road bike from a local repository
    3. Friend 2 is interested in road bikes
    4. Friend 1 finds a better bike for a little more money and wants to get rid of the bike from dump
    5. I ask friend 2 if he wants the bike.
    6. Friend 2 asks my recommendation, I say go for it.
    7. Friend 1 drops off bike from dump at my house.
    8. I look the bike over some more. I find that the wheels are tubular (dammit!)
    9. I notice a few other things here and there, rust, etc.
    10. Friend 2 still has not come to claim the bike yet.
    11. Today I notice the rear has gone flat for no reason. F*CK!
    12. Bike won't be worth it to friend 2 to replace the tubulars...

    We are all college students going to the same school. School starts in 2 weeks. Tubulars are a royal
    pain, and I don't knwo how to fix the tube or anything. I would recommend relacing the wheel with a
    clincher rim, but that would mean needing more tires, tubes, and rims. My friend 2 is not interested
    in spending more money... he wants to ride.

    I was considering selling the bike on eBay, as it has some Campy stuff and may very well have some
    vintage value to a collector. I want to sell it because then it would be a no-cost solution to
    everyone except me. Friend 2 took my recommendation, so I feel like it's my responsibility.

    What is the cheapest way for me to handle the situation? If I were to sell the bike on eBay, I would
    need to pay Friend 1 $85 for the bike because that's how much Friend 2 was going to pay Friend 1.

    I posted about this bike before. Look here: http://plaza.ufl.edu/phillee/crap/miyata.html Would it
    be worth it to sell?

    I hope you haven't confused you.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
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  2. On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 00:39:48 +0000, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

    > 9. I notice a few other things here and there, rust, etc. 10. Friend 2 still has not come to claim
    > the bike yet. 11. Today I notice the rear has gone flat for no reason. F*CK! 12. Bike won't be
    > worth it to friend 2 to replace the tubulars...
    >
    > We are all college students going to the same school. School starts in 2 weeks. Tubulars are a
    > royal pain, and I don't knwo how to fix the tube or anything. I would recommend relacing the wheel
    > with a clincher rim, but that would mean needing more tires, tubes, and rims. My friend 2 is not
    > interested in spending more money... he wants to ride.
    >
    > I was considering selling the bike on eBay, as it has some Campy stuff and may very well have some
    > vintage value to a collector. I want to sell it because then it would be a no-cost solution to
    > everyone except me. Friend 2 took my recommendation, so I feel like it's my responsibility.
    >
    > What is the cheapest way for me to handle the situation? If I were to sell the bike on eBay, I
    > would need to pay Friend 1 $85 for the bike because that's how much Friend 2 was going to pay
    > Friend 1.

    I doubt that you'd get enough on ebay to make it worth your while. It was, in its day, an OK bike,
    but not a great one. The hubs are one of the early step-down grades from Campy, and some of those
    did not have the workmanship that the name would imply. In contrast, modern Campy components all
    have excellent workmanship for all models (just different materials and some newer features on the
    higher-end), but in the 70s, some of the lines were pretty junky. These are probably usable, but a
    new low-end Shimano hub will be much better.

    The bike has a lot of rust. Good luck if you have to replace that bottom bracket. The shell would
    probably fall apart. The freewheel is also rusted. Soak it in oil if you can get it off the hub, and
    maybe it will work for a while.

    Best stuff on the bike are the rims and tires. Those rims were very high-end, far better than the
    rest of the bike. But of course the nipples have rusted themselves onto the spokes, so they are
    non-truable. The tires were good, but they have died. Bits must crumble off on your hands when you
    touch them. They are not usable, so the fact that one went flat is irrelevant.

    The bike can be made rideable -- for now -- with new rims/tires/spokes. That would cost, doing the
    labor yourself, somewhere around $100. If the bottom bracket is shot, chances are it can't be fixed.
    Determine whether you can re-pack the bottom bracket without destroying the shell before you go off
    spending money. You will have to re-pack all the bearings -- and replace all the balls. The brakes
    OK? Derailleurs? How awful is that saddle?

    I'd say you have $200 to invest in it to make it usable, if you are lucky. You also have to invest
    several hours in it of your time. Is it worth it to you?

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |
     
  3. > workmanship that the name would imply. In contrast, modern Campy components all have excellent
    > workmanship for all models (just different materials and some newer features on the higher-end),
    > but in the 70s, some of the lines were pretty junky. These are probably usable, but a new low-end
    > Shimano hub will be much better.

    They seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones, locknuts, axles , but that is
    about it. Bearings run smooth.

    > The bike has a lot of rust. Good luck if you have to replace that bottom bracket. The shell would
    > probably fall apart. The freewheel is also rusted. Soak it in oil if you can get it off the hub,
    > and maybe it will work for a while.

    Yes - the shell is rusty, but I dremeled the surface and cleaned it up pretty well. Didn't penetrate
    more than a couple of millmeters... but I don't believe enough to be of issue. Freewheel turns
    easily and quite well. pawls click cleanly and the freewheel doesn't grind.

    > Best stuff on the bike are the rims and tires. Those rims were very high-end, far better than the
    > rest of the bike. But of course the nipples have rusted themselves onto the spokes, so they are
    > non-truable. The tires were good, but they have died. Bits must crumble off on your hands when you
    > touch them. They are not usable, so the fact that one went flat is irrelevant.

    Wheels are dead true. I believe they're still truable, as the nipples must be brass.

    > The bike can be made rideable -- for now -- with new rims/tires/spokes. That would cost, doing the
    > labor yourself, somewhere around $100. If the bottom bracket is shot, chances are it can't be
    > fixed. Determine whether you can re-pack the bottom bracket without destroying the shell before
    > you go off spending money. You will have to re-pack all the bearings -- and replace all the balls.
    > The brakes OK? Derailleurs? How awful is that saddle?

    BB has no play and runs smoothly - that's one of the first things we checked.

    Brakes are surprisingly strong... stronger than my regular road bike. Front der was sticking - I
    soaked in WD and it works now, albeit a little weakly. Finish quality is superb - similar to current
    Campy stuff. Saddle is an Avocet... not too bad of a nut-buster.

    Cables and housing are the main things that need to be replaced.

    Thanks for your insight.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > workmanship that the name would imply. In contrast, modern Campy components all have excellent
    > > workmanship for all models (just different materials and some newer features on the higher-end),
    > > but in the 70s, some of the lines were pretty junky. These are probably usable, but a new
    > > low-end Shimano hub will be much better.
    >
    > They seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones, locknuts, axles , but that is
    > about it. Bearings run smooth.
    >
    > > The bike has a lot of rust. Good luck if you have to replace that bottom bracket. The shell
    > > would probably fall apart. The freewheel is also rusted. Soak it in oil if you can get it off
    > > the hub, and maybe it will work for a while.
    >
    > Yes - the shell is rusty, but I dremeled the surface and cleaned it up pretty well. Didn't
    > penetrate more than a couple of millmeters... but I don't believe enough to be of issue. Freewheel
    > turns easily and quite well. pawls click cleanly and the freewheel doesn't grind.
    >
    > > Best stuff on the bike are the rims and tires. Those rims were very high-end, far better than
    > > the rest of the bike. But of course the nipples have rusted themselves onto the spokes, so they
    > > are non-truable. The tires were good, but they have died. Bits must crumble off on your hands
    > > when you touch them. They are not usable, so the fact that one went flat is irrelevant.
    >
    > Wheels are dead true. I believe they're still truable, as the nipples must be brass.

    > BB has no play and runs smoothly - that's one of the first things we checked.
    >
    > Brakes are surprisingly strong... stronger than my regular road bike. Front der was sticking - I
    > soaked in WD and it works now, albeit a little weakly. Finish quality is superb - similar to
    > current Campy stuff. Saddle is an Avocet... not too bad of a nut-buster.
    >
    > Cables and housing are the main things that need to be replaced.
    >
    > Thanks for your insight.

    Made-in-Japan frame, Campy hubs, tubies, and a Suntour Superbe drivetrain? My friend Dave will be in
    contact shortly :).

    Seriously, what you have is a pretty nice bike (of the era) in really bad shape. To have collectible
    value, I think the frame would have to be in better shape, simply because anyone who is into Miyatas
    could have their pick of garage queens that have never seen a drop of rain.

    The parts are individually somewhat desireable, but this bike is probably most valuable as a
    ride-it-into-the-ground winter bike. I'd swap the freewheel for a 6 or 7v Shimano Hyperglide, a mod
    I made to my half-decent garage sale bike, and which improves the shifting immesurably. If the
    tubular wheels bug you, you should be able to find someone (online or locally) who will happily swap
    you your tubular rims for some inexpensive clincher wheels. Or, since you have all the other parts,
    just buy some rims and transfer the spokes and hubs over.

    $85? Well, you'll probably never get more for the bike, so at that price it may be something you'd
    regretfully let go of, unless it really wins you over. It's not a ridiculous price, but it's not a
    steal, either.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  5. Art Harris

    Art Harris Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:
    > What is the cheapest way for me to handle the situation?

    Unless you got a "finders fee" for brokering this deal, I'd suggest you just let the two friends
    work it out themselves. Sounds like friend #1 got the bike for free (with some help from you). So I
    don't see how he's out anything.

    You gave an honest (if hasty) recommendation to friend #2, but now have second thoughts. I'd just
    point out the problems to friend #2 and let him decide what he wants to do.

    Putting time and money into fixing this bike up would only make sense if you or your friends were
    going to keep it.

    As for wheels, Nashbar has a pair of road wheels on sale for $70 (Sun M13 rims/Shimano 2200 hubs/SS
    spokes) that might do. Decent tires can be had for about $12 each. Of course, that would more than
    double the cost of the bike for friend #2.

    Art Harris
     
  6. Phil-<< 12. Bike won't be worth it to friend 2 to replace the tubulars...
    >><BR><BR>
    << What is the cheapest way for me to handle the situation? >><BR><BR>

    Go buy a cheap tubie, about $20, like a cheap clincher...put it on.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > [the hubs] seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones, locknuts, axles , but
    > that is about it. Bearings run smooth.

    If there's no play, and the bearings run smooth, you don't need new cones, locknuts or axles.

    > Wheels are dead true. I believe they're still truable, as the nipples must be brass.

    Brass nipples can seize if allowed to corrode, and the degree of corrosion on the eyelets suggests
    that these may give you some problems. Put a drop of light oil on each nipple at the spoke and
    eyelet, leave for some time to allow penetration, and see if they'll turn.

    James Thomson
     
  8. "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote:

    [snip]

    > since you have all the other parts, just buy some rims and transfer the spokes and hubs over.

    Most modern clincher rims have substantially smaller spoke bed diameters than those Arcs-en-ciel, so
    it would probably be necessary to change the spokes as well.

    James Thomson
     
  9. "James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > [the hubs] seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones, locknuts, axles , but
    > > that is about it. Bearings run smooth.
    >
    > If there's no play, and the bearings run smooth, you don't need new cones, locknuts or axles.

    Well, what I meant was that I would assume a collector would want to clean up the rusty cones,
    locknuts, and axles, but functionally, it's good.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  10. On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:27:46 +0000, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

    > They seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones, locknuts, axles , but that is
    > about it. Bearings run smooth.

    If the cones are shot, how can they run smooth? What is wrong with the axles?

    > Yes - the shell is rusty, but I dremeled the surface and cleaned it up pretty well. Didn't
    > penetrate more than a couple of millmeters... but I don't believe enough to be of issue. Freewheel
    > turns easily and quite well. pawls click cleanly and the freewheel doesn't grind.

    That's better than it looked like.

    > Wheels are dead true. I believe they're still truable, as the nipples must be brass.

    Even brass nipples can get glued to the spokes with corrosion.

    > BB has no play and runs smoothly - that's one of the first things we checked.

    Good. But those tires will have to be replaced in order to give anything like a reliable ride. I
    suspect those have butyl tubes, but even so, they may well be rotten, and I think those were cotton
    tires, so the casing is definitely gone due to time.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not _`\(,_ | certain, and as
    far as they are certain, they do not refer to (_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein
     
  11. "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:27:46 +0000, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >
    > > They seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones, locknuts, axles , but that is
    > > about it. Bearings run smooth.
    >
    > If the cones are shot, how can they run smooth? What is wrong with the axles?

    Well, they're rusty externally, but clean internally. I would assume that the next owner of this
    bike might opt to replace them for looks. I say this because it's on eBay as we speak, and I have to
    get rid of this ASAP because I'm leaving for school in a week.

    In case you're interested, I Simple-Greened the whole bike, and it looks much better now, except for
    the rust/tires part.

    http://plaza.ufl.edu/phillee/crap/miyata.html

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  12. "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Well, what I meant was that I would assume a collector would want to clean up the rusty cones,
    > locknuts, and axles, but functionally, it's good.

    The wheels aren't collectable. The cosmetic state of the rims is such that nobody would consider
    replacing the axle hardware for cosmetic reasons. Collectors want shiny, high-end, NOS, and rare.
    Your wheels are none of those things.

    James Thomson
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>, "James Thomson"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > > since you have all the other parts, just buy some rims and transfer the spokes and hubs over.
    >
    > Most modern clincher rims have substantially smaller spoke bed diameters than those Arcs-en-ciel,
    > so it would probably be necessary to change the spokes as well.
    >
    > James Thomson

    I stand corrected. I should have thought of the spoke length issue.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  14. Art Harris

    Art Harris Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:

    > Well, they're rusty externally, but clean internally. I would assume that the next owner of this
    > bike might opt to replace them for looks. I say this because it's on eBay as we speak...

    Well, it looks cleaner, but "pristine??"

    Art Harris
     
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