Alfredo Sauce

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:34:58 -0500, I needed a babel fish to
understand Andy <Q> :

Quoted message said:

"Felice Friese" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:uNudnXA_ncMH33ffRVn-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Let the wars begin.

Felice

YES... a good ol' fashioned rfc food fight!!!

Fling...

... SPLAT

Stop that wasting of good food... there are people starving around the
world that could eat it...
(note this is definitely tongue in cheek).
----------------------------------------
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic."
- Arthur C. Clarke

Andy said:

http://www.e-rcps.com/pasta/rcp/p_abc/alfredo.shtml

I use a bit more cream and don't whip it. It's yummy stuff no matter
what you call it, though.

6 oz butter
1 1/2 C whipping cream
1 C Parmesean cheese, grated
salt and pepper to taste

Felice Friese said:

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Felice Friese said:

recipe devotes an entire page to making the pasta and about two sentences
about placing it in a warm bowl and adding butter and cheese.

Let the wars begin.

Unless the pasta is bone dry, it contains some pasta water and this
mixed with melted butter and cheese qualifies it as a sauce just as much
as any starch-free reduction sauce ...at least in my mind.

nb

Dumping a (warm) bowl of fettuccine Alfredo atop Notbob's head, Felice says,
"This will stick to your head and not run down your neck. Ergo, it is not a
sauce."

:-)

YUCK! Gimme Alfredo SAUCE.

sf <[email hidden]> wrote in news:16rke1pio2j6en8k6p01o8sif8kmu9dit9@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

Andy said:

http://www.e-rcps.com/pasta/rcp/p_abc/alfredo.shtml

I use a bit more cream and don't whip it. It's yummy stuff no matter
what you call it, though.

6 oz butter
1 1/2 C whipping cream
1 C Parmesean cheese, grated
salt and pepper to taste

sf,

Here's a complete dinner recipe that takes fettuccine AND alfredo sauce
to delicious extremes.

http://www.here.vi/Recipes/vb15.htm

Andy

Same perennial topic arose recently on an HTTP food forum. Whenever there's
something like this whose meaning has shifted recently or regionally, people
will rise zealously to defend the particular version they happen to know
about. (Whether of fettuccine "Alfredo" or the meaning of "French dressing"
or even the pronunciation of "patina."😉

FAQ lists can be good for these things.

"Felice Friese" in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

... Crash, there is no such animal as Alfredo SAUCE.
Fettucini Alfredo, or any pasta Alfredo, is simply pasta
dressed with butter and Parmesan cheese. No sauce,
no cream, no eggs, no nothing else.

That's a very traditional meaning. Here (quoted on aforementioned HTTP
forum) is J. F. Mariani, something of an authority on history of
Italian-food adaptations in the US:

" fettuccine Alfredo. ... a staple of Italian-American restaurants since
the mid-1960s. It was created in Rome in 1920 by Alfredo de Lellio... The
original dish was made with a very rich triple butter di Lellio made
himself, three kinds of flour, and only the heart of the best parmigiano.
.... Because most American cooks could not reproduce the richness of the
original butter, today the dish almost always contains heavy cream."

From that, recent US commercial versions of Alfredo "sauce."

"Andy" in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

YES... a good ol' fashioned rfc food fight!!!

Not so very old-fashioned. Call it the Middle Ages of RFC.

Cheers -- Max

Wayne Boatwright said:

Sorry, but it's not a sauce. It's merely dressed with butter and cheese.

How do you figure?

Reduction sauce:
1. liquid (wine or stock)
2. butter
3. burnt meat scum
4. botanicals

....heat on stove to let sauce reduce

How is this different from?:

Alfredo sauce:
1. liquid (water)
2. butter
3. pasta scum
4. pastatanicals

....add butter to boiling hot pasta, liquid reduces by evaporation.

Hmmm.... now that I think about it, I was wrong in the first place.
Afredo sauce does, in fact, include a starch (pasta scum) and an oil
and a liquid. That, no matter how you look at it, is a sauce.

nb

"Max Hauser" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Same perennial topic arose recently on an HTTP food forum. Whenever
there's something like this whose meaning has shifted recently or
regionally, people will rise zealously to defend the particular
version they happen to know about. (Whether of fettuccine "Alfredo"
or the meaning of "French dressing" or even the pronunciation of
"patina."😉

FAQ lists can be good for these things.

"Felice Friese" in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

... Crash, there is no such animal as Alfredo SAUCE.
Fettucini Alfredo, or any pasta Alfredo, is simply pasta
dressed with butter and Parmesan cheese. No sauce,
no cream, no eggs, no nothing else.

That's a very traditional meaning. Here (quoted on aforementioned
HTTP forum) is J. F. Mariani, something of an authority on history of
Italian-food adaptations in the US:

" fettuccine Alfredo. ... a staple of Italian-American restaurants
since the mid-1960s. It was created in Rome in 1920 by Alfredo de
Lellio... The original dish was made with a very rich triple butter di
Lellio made himself, three kinds of flour, and only the heart of the
best parmigiano. ... Because most American cooks could not reproduce
the richness of the original butter, today the dish almost always
contains heavy cream."

But if he took his recipe to the grave, how do you know of "triple
butter"? Any modern recipe is a bastardization of the original, agreed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

YES... a good ol' fashioned rfc food fight!!!

Not so very old-fashioned. Call it the Middle Ages of RFC.

Cheers -- Max

Max,

Hrrrumph!!! I flick Cheez-Whiz in your direction anyway. 🙂

Cheerz,

Andy

1) what the Hey is a cream and butter sauce? - how does that differ from a
milk and extra- butter-than-cream sauce, or a skim milk and
more-extra-butter sauce? Or from a white sauce?

I seem to remember cheese and a spice or two in my Alfredo xxxx - or is it
Alfredo xxxxxx? - or Alfredo what-would-you-call-it?

2) Kind of like the dog chasing a car - what does he do with the damn thing
if he catches it?

So... if we all agree it isn't a sauce, what are you going to call that
white, cheesy, et al runny stuff we-all put on pasta? Alfredo's stuff?

"Waiter, please bring a cup of marinara sauce for me and a cup of Alfredo
stuff for her."

"Monsur Fromage du Pollet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Crash wrote on 29 Jul 2005 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

what is Alfredo sauce? Dams says it dont exist.. fact or fiction?

Crash

Fact...The thing commonly called Alfredo Sauce is actually a Cream and
Butter Sauce.

--
It's not a question of where he grips it!
It's a simple question of weight ratios!

A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Quoted message said:

On Fri 29 Jul 2005 08:39:58a, notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Felice Friese said:

recipe devotes an entire page to making the pasta and about two
sentences
about placing it in a warm bowl and adding butter and cheese.

Let the wars begin.

Unless the pasta is bone dry, it contains some pasta water and this
mixed with melted butter and cheese qualifies it as a sauce just as much
as any starch-free reduction sauce ...at least in my mind.

nb

In YOUR mind, maybe, but not in mine. Drain the damned fettuccine!

Felice

"hob" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:UoKdnV54VZmJHHffRVn-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

So... if we all agree it isn't a sauce, what are you going to call

that

Quoted message said:

white, cheesy, et al runny stuff we-all put on pasta? Alfredo's stuff?

Alfredo SNOT.

Andy

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

Sorry, but it's not a sauce. It's merely dressed with butter and cheese.

How do you figure?

Reduction sauce:
1. liquid (wine or stock)
2. butter
3. burnt meat scum
4. botanicals

...heat on stove to let sauce reduce

How is this different from?:

Alfredo sauce:
1. liquid (water)
2. butter
3. pasta scum
4. pastatanicals

...add butter to boiling hot pasta, liquid reduces by evaporation.

Hmmm.... now that I think about it, I was wrong in the first place.
Afredo sauce does, in fact, include a starch (pasta scum) and an oil
and a liquid. That, no matter how you look at it, is a sauce.

nb

OK, you just made a sauce. But when you pour it onto fettuccine, don't call
it Fettuccine Alfredo. Call it Fettucine Notbob.
Sauces POUR. Butter and cheese DO NOT POUR; they stick to the fettuccine
like library paste but taste a whole lot better.

Felice

Pasta scum? Yuk!

Andy <Q> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Alfredo SNOT.

As in "It snot sauce?"

Or even just abandone Alfredo for his effort and just call it "snot."

More Pino Gregio!!! 🙂

Andy

"Max Hauser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

"Felice Friese" in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

... Crash, there is no such animal as Alfredo SAUCE.
Fettucini Alfredo, or any pasta Alfredo, is simply pasta
dressed with butter and Parmesan cheese. No sauce,
no cream, no eggs, no nothing else.

That's a very traditional meaning. Here (quoted on aforementioned HTTP
forum) is J. F. Mariani, something of an authority on history of
Italian-food adaptations in the US:

" fettuccine Alfredo. ... a staple of Italian-American restaurants since
the mid-1960s. It was created in Rome in 1920 by Alfredo de Lellio... The
original dish was made with a very rich triple butter di Lellio made
himself, three kinds of flour, and only the heart of the best parmigiano.
... Because most American cooks could not reproduce the richness of the
original butter, today the dish almost always contains heavy cream."

From that, recent US commercial versions of Alfredo "sauce."

Cheers -- Max

Mariani's point taken, Max. Oh that we had the butter diLellio had! But
butter alone is richer than butter diluted by cream, no?

Felice

Felice Friese said:

In YOUR mind, maybe, but not in mine. Drain the damned fettuccine!

Drain it till what!? It's a bone dry solid lump? Nope, fresh pasta
carries water by capillary action. This water has starch disolved in
it. Starch + oil + liquid = sauce

nb

Felice Friese said:

OK, you just made a sauce. But when you pour it onto fettuccine, don't call
it Fettuccine Alfredo. Call it Fettucine Notbob.
Sauces POUR. Butter and cheese DO NOT POUR; they stick to the fettuccine
like library paste but taste a whole lot better.

You're splitting sauce hairs. Any sauce can made a lump by too much
cheese. I don't put enough cheese on alfredo to make it a paste.

nb

Andy said:

"Max Hauser" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Same perennial topic arose recently on an HTTP food forum. Whenever
there's something like this whose meaning has shifted recently or
regionally, people will rise zealously to defend the particular
version they happen to know about. (Whether of fettuccine "Alfredo"
or the meaning of "French dressing" or even the pronunciation of
"patina."😉

FAQ lists can be good for these things.

"Felice Friese" in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

... Crash, there is no such animal as Alfredo SAUCE.
Fettucini Alfredo, or any pasta Alfredo, is simply pasta
dressed with butter and Parmesan cheese. No sauce,
no cream, no eggs, no nothing else.

That's a very traditional meaning. Here (quoted on aforementioned
HTTP forum) is J. F. Mariani, something of an authority on history of
Italian-food adaptations in the US:

" fettuccine Alfredo. ... a staple of Italian-American restaurants
since the mid-1960s. It was created in Rome in 1920 by Alfredo de
Lellio... The original dish was made with a very rich triple butter di
Lellio made himself, three kinds of flour, and only the heart of the
best parmigiano. ... Because most American cooks could not reproduce
the richness of the original butter, today the dish almost always
contains heavy cream."

But if he took his recipe to the grave, how do you know of "triple
butter"? Any modern recipe is a bastardization of the original, agreed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

YES... a good ol' fashioned rfc food fight!!!

Not so very old-fashioned. Call it the Middle Ages of RFC.

Cheers -- Max

Max,

Hrrrumph!!! I flick Cheez-Whiz in your direction anyway. 🙂

Sorry, caught the cheez-whiz and am now turning it into quick
cauliflower cheese soup.

Quoted message said:

Cheerz,

Andy

On Fri 29 Jul 2005 12:02:25p, notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

Sorry, but it's not a sauce. It's merely dressed with butter and
cheese.

How do you figure?

Reduction sauce:
1. liquid (wine or stock)
2. butter
3. burnt meat scum
4. botanicals

...heat on stove to let sauce reduce

How is this different from?:

Alfredo sauce:
1. liquid (water)
2. butter
3. pasta scum
4. pastatanicals

...add butter to boiling hot pasta, liquid reduces by evaporation.

Hmmm.... now that I think about it, I was wrong in the first place.
Afredo sauce does, in fact, include a starch (pasta scum) and an oil
and a liquid. That, no matter how you look at it, is a sauce.

We'll never agree on this. I pass...

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

"Felice Friese" in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

...
Mariani's point taken, Max. Oh that we had the butter diLellio had! But
butter alone is richer than butter diluted by cream, no?

I would think so too. Maybe it was the particular dairly flavor, or
something else.

I'm happy however not to have the rest of what diLellio also dealt with.
The _Fascisti_ marched on Rome soon after Alfredo started popularizing that
dish by "making its serving a spectacle reminiscent of Grand Opera" (Waverly
Root). Some Anglophone Italian cookbooks mention the gold tossing utensils
he used, and their confiscation under the ensuing dictatorship and its
efforts to control valuta.

Root's study (_The Food of Italy_) mentions the long history of "Fettuccine
al burro" and versions made outside Rome, and credits Alfredo for
popularizing the dish among tourists, or perhaps refining, not "inventing"
it. Root too gives only butter and cheese as ingredients (in his case
_doppio burro,_ "double," rather than Mariani's triple).

Clearly the dish has some history.

Cheers -- Max

~patches~ <[email hidden]> wrote in news:11el396rtv7ep43
@corp.supernews.com:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, caught the cheez-whiz and am now turning it into quick
cauliflower cheese soup.

patches,

OK, so I can only imagine you're gonna launch your soup at the "Alfredo
sauce folks in denial" for your own sake! I've got a few cups of pesto
with a range of 5 cafeteria tables and two rfc round tables.

You've been warned! I also have dijon mustard and spatulas. Whose side
are you on?

😄

Andy

So hard sauce is not a sauce and should not be called "hard sauce?" Or
is it not a sauce, but it's ok to call it "hard sauce?" Or is it a
sauce after all?

-bwg