almond "flour"



Bailey's Girl wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Saffire wrote:
::::: In article <[email protected]>,
::::: [email protected] says...
:::::: On 6/29/2005 11:00:20 AM, Roger Zoul wrote:
::::::
::::::: Cubit wrote:
::::::::: An amazing number of low carbers who have made goal go on to
::::::::: eating carbs and regaining the weight, and more. Why are
::::::::: they so quick to return to eating bread and cake?
:::::::
::::::: An amazing number of low faters who have made goal go on to
::::::: eating carbs and regaining the weight, and more. Why are they
::::::: so quick to return to eating bread and cake?
::::::
:::::: Because bread and cake taste incredibly good?
:::::
::::: I've never been much of a cake eater and can take it or leave it.
::::: I've always been more of a cookie monster :)
:::
::: I have been almost every kind of "monster" there is, regarding
::: carby foods. In college I was known for stealing my buddies
::: cookies. But cake, pie, chips, ice cream, candy, etc, were all
::: things I could turn into a "monster" for. Only after I went LC did
::: I learn that i'm a nut monster, too.
:::
::: I'm convince that nuts are one of nature's treats. The problem I
::: have with them is due in part to the fact that I can get them in
::: unnatural quantities. Combine that with my inner demon and the nut
::: monster is freed.
::
:: Hi Roger!
::
:: I break those "unnatural quantities" into servings when I first get
:: them home (i.e., before I want them) and it's much easier to manage
:: the "nut monster". lol

I start wanting them the minute I see them on the shelf in the store. I'm
lucky if they make it home unopenned. So, the solution is to not buy those
large amounts. I've tried that business about breaking into reasonable
quantities. But the mark of a true monster is that you'll search and
destroy (ie, devour). If they are in the house, I won't rest until I have
consumed them. Are you getting the picture now? :)

::
::: Funny....I've never been one to overeat fruit, veggies, meat, fish,
::: fowl, dairy, etc. I can overeat carby stuff and nuts.
::
:: Is it the Protein Power book that says they allow all the butter you
:: want because who is going to sit down and eat a stick of butter? :)

Yuck! However, people around there (as in ASDLC) drink oil...so you never
know.
 
Carb cravings can go away. I believe the reason many retain carb cravings
is because of eating carbs. I'm suggesting in this thread that substitutes
like LC bread, cake, and pasta may also be preserving the carb cravings.


"FOB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Perhaps because they haven't found satisfying substitutes. If I want
> something, not ever having it only makes me want it more. Having a

similar
> substitute can satisfy my longing.
>
> In news:[email protected],
> Cubit <[email protected]> stated
> | An amazing number of low carbers who have made goal go on to eating
> | carbs and regaining the weight, and more. Why are they so quick to
> | return to eating bread and cake?
> |
> |
>
>
 
Ice cream is very different than grain based bread, cake and pasta. Ice
cream is a high fat food with sugar added.

I suppose one could suggest that eating LC ice cream could lead to eating
sugar based ice cream in the future. However, I don't anticipate that
happening to someone, as compared to a return to real bread, cake and pasta.
Also, the LC versions of bread, cake and pasta often have a high percentage
of carbs.


"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sherry wrote:
> :: "Cubit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> :: news:[email protected]...


>
> The question make no sense coming from someone who eats ice cream!
>
>
 
The low carb bread, cake, and pasta recipes often have a high percentage of
carbs. The total carbs per serving may be relatively low, but a low carb
bread may have a high percentage of carbohydrate due to a lack of fat and
protein. Thus, if all one eats is the reduced carb product, one would find
Fitday totals with excess carbs.

I no longer have any desire for cake, bread, or pasta. It is not a
willpower thing. I made an adjustment after about 6 to 8 weeks of low
carbing. I believe that eating carbs or things like LC bread would trigger
a return of those desires.

"Sherry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Cubit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > An amazing number of low carbers who have made goal go on to eating

carbs
> > and regaining the weight, and more. Why are they so quick to return to
> > eating bread and cake?

>
> I can't answer that...I don't know why they go back to eating carbs and
> regaining weight...but I'm not seeing the connection between making low

carb
> recipes and returning to eating high carb foods.
>
> I probably sound argumentative eh? Especially considering that so many
> people on usenet seem to be...but I'm new and you're old <G> and that's

why
> I'm pressing for an answer to my question :).
>
> --
> Sherry
> 364/320/195
> low carb since 4/4/05
> NEW - My Low Carb site: http://lowcarb.owly.net
>
>
 
Yes. That is my theory. Thanks for putting it so well!


"Lass Chance" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sherry---it isnt so much about the carbs. It's the psychological trigger
> of chocolate cake, (chocolate CAKE!) waking up the Sleeping Pastry
> Dragon.
>
> pretty scary.
>
>
>
> Start LC~5-16-05
> 202-188-165
>
 
Cubit wrote:
:: Ice cream is very different than grain based bread, cake and pasta.
:: Ice cream is a high fat food with sugar added.
::
:: I suppose one could suggest that eating LC ice cream could lead to
:: eating sugar based ice cream in the future. However, I don't
:: anticipate that happening to someone, as compared to a return to
:: real bread, cake and pasta. Also, the LC versions of bread, cake and
:: pasta often have a high percentage of carbs.

Pure theory based on your own skewed POV, Cubit. I eat LC tortillas and
have no desire to return to bread, cake, or pasta, even though I ate lots
and lots of that to get fat.

Ice cream is a high fat food with sugar added. Therefore, it is really a
killer. At least bread and pasta only have carbs and aren't loaded with fat
too. You have to add fat to them to make them the killer that ice cream is
right out of the box.

You really need to understand that what works for you doesn't work for
everyone.

::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
:: news:[email protected]...
::: Sherry wrote:
::::: "Cubit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email protected]...
::
:::
::: The question make no sense coming from someone who eats ice cream!
 
I hadn't thought about "fautatoes." My mom made me some cauliflower
pancakes a few months ago, and I do miss them. I'm not going to go have
real pancakes, but since the failure rate is so high, someone else in this
situation might.

The same argument might be applied to artificial sweeteners, but I am not
prepared to wean myself from them. I buy liquid saccharine by the
gallon.... Igor has made posts that suggest that sweetness cravings can go
away by avoiding sweeteners.

"Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cubit wrote:
> >
> > "let them eat cake." -NOT
> >
> > I have come to strongly suspect that eating simulated carb foods (like

bread
> > or cake) patterns a dieter for a return to real carbs and failure.
> >
> > There are many true low carbs foods. One should learn to find

satisfaction
> > within that range. Thus, one may be part of the 5% who succeed and
> > maintain.

>
> I'm usually hard core about psychological tricks that
> feed an addiction, but where is the boundary for you?
>
> Almonds are low carb to almost anyone but you don't
> like making a cake from almond (with artificial
> sweetener to make it sweet, right?) because it feeds
> an addiction towards cake. Is this too much like
> giving an alcoholic a near beer in your opinion?
>
> How about "fautatoes" made by mashing cauliflower
> and maybe adding some cheese or cream? It only uses
> foods from the core Induction lists so is it a bad
> idea as well?
>
> I'm more inclined to think that the problem with a
> cake made from almond flour is the artificial sweetener
> and how it keeps the sweet tooth active than the
> richening effect of the almonds. Rich can imply low
> carb when done right and rich foods could make a
> reasonable replacement that doesn't end up a
> psychological trick. Almond butter low carb, snacks
> made from almond butter okay. Almond paste sugared
> high carb, almond paste with AS a trick, snacks made
> from almond paste with AS worry me about a slippery
> slope towards going back to real sugar.
>
> And yet how much of my worrying about artificial
> sweeteners is nonsense while I average a diet soda
> every other day? When I've gone through months on
> end without diet sodas my sweet tooth did get
> steadily smaller but even some diet sodas, shrug.
>
 
Cubit wrote:
:: The low carb bread, cake, and pasta recipes often have a high
:: percentage of carbs. The total carbs per serving may be relatively
:: low, but a low carb bread may have a high percentage of carbohydrate
:: due to a lack of fat and protein. Thus, if all one eats is the
:: reduced carb product, one would find Fitday totals with excess carbs.

That's where the notion of limiting carbs comes in. It prevents ending up
with excessive carbs.

Geez, this is Low Carb 101 stuff.

::
:: I no longer have any desire for cake, bread, or pasta. It is not a
:: willpower thing.

Nor do I. And those are definitely the things I ate to get up to 367 lbs.

I made an adjustment after about 6 to 8 weeks of
:: low carbing. I believe that eating carbs or things like LC bread
:: would trigger a return of those desires.

And you're wrong. You're talking outside of your own experience.

What's strange about you, Dave, is that inspite of your success with weight
loss, by your own admission, you're only a bowl of pasta, a slice of bread,
or a piece of cake, away from regaining all of your weight.

That's really sad, if true.
 
Well Bravo.

However, I'm a bit of a hypocrite where chocolate is concerned. (sugarless
forms)

"Lass Chance" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I hear you, Cubit. I actually had the semi-sweet chocolate chip bag in
> my hand.
>
> IN my hand, man!!!!
>
> Ive been jonesing for chocolate cake several days, sporadically.
>
> I didnt buy the chips. Gimme a "Hallelujah".
>
> LassChance
>
>
>
> Start LC~5-16-05
> 202-188-165
>
 
"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> What's strange about you, Dave, is that inspite of your success with

weight
> loss, by your own admission, you're only a bowl of pasta, a slice of

bread,
> or a piece of cake, away from regaining all of your weight.
>
> That's really sad, if true.


Right. I am determined to be in the 5% who win, but I have a healthy
respect for the 95% failure statistic.
 
Cubit wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
:: news:[email protected]...
::
::: What's strange about you, Dave, is that inspite of your success
::: with weight loss, by your own admission, you're only a bowl of
::: pasta, a slice of bread, or a piece of cake, away from regaining
::: all of your weight.
:::
::: That's really sad, if true.
::
:: Right. I am determined to be in the 5% who win, but I have a healthy
:: respect for the 95% failure statistic.

And by living in fear & deprivation, you hope to win? Time will tell....
 
If they have a high percentage of carbs they aren't low carb. Not all
substitutes are like kind, either. A LC chocolate cheesecake could be a
taste substitute for a regular chocolate cake but very low in carbs. I
haven't eaten any of the tortillas or wraps but I know that some are quite
low carb and they fill a need for some people. I never was a big sandwich
eater so have had no desire to find a sandwich substitute for bread, but
that's just me. Everyone needs to find the foods that make the WOE
sustainable for them and that will be different for everyone. And if people
are counting their carbs they aren't going to be eating only substitutes for
bread. I haven't seen anyone talk about making these things the basis of
their diet, they are enhancements, not the primary content.

In news:eek:[email protected],
Cubit <[email protected]> stated
| The low carb bread, cake, and pasta recipes often have a high
| percentage of carbs. The total carbs per serving may be relatively
| low, but a low carb bread may have a high percentage of carbohydrate
| due to a lack of fat and protein. Thus, if all one eats is the
| reduced carb product, one would find Fitday totals with excess carbs.
|
| I no longer have any desire for cake, bread, or pasta. It is not a
| willpower thing. I made an adjustment after about 6 to 8 weeks of low
| carbing. I believe that eating carbs or things like LC bread would
| trigger a return of those desires.
|
 
Roger Zoul wrote:
> Bailey's Girl wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Saffire wrote:
> ::::: In article <[email protected]>,
> ::::: [email protected] says...
> :::::: On 6/29/2005 11:00:20 AM, Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::::::
> ::::::: Cubit wrote:
> ::::::::: An amazing number of low carbers who have made goal go on to
> ::::::::: eating carbs and regaining the weight, and more. Why are
> ::::::::: they so quick to return to eating bread and cake?
> :::::::
> ::::::: An amazing number of low faters who have made goal go on to
> ::::::: eating carbs and regaining the weight, and more. Why are they
> ::::::: so quick to return to eating bread and cake?
> ::::::
> :::::: Because bread and cake taste incredibly good?
> :::::
> ::::: I've never been much of a cake eater and can take it or leave it.
> ::::: I've always been more of a cookie monster :)
> :::
> ::: I have been almost every kind of "monster" there is, regarding
> ::: carby foods. In college I was known for stealing my buddies
> ::: cookies. But cake, pie, chips, ice cream, candy, etc, were all
> ::: things I could turn into a "monster" for. Only after I went LC did
> ::: I learn that i'm a nut monster, too.
> :::
> ::: I'm convince that nuts are one of nature's treats. The problem I
> ::: have with them is due in part to the fact that I can get them in
> ::: unnatural quantities. Combine that with my inner demon and the nut
> ::: monster is freed.
> ::
> :: Hi Roger!
> ::
> :: I break those "unnatural quantities" into servings when I first get
> :: them home (i.e., before I want them) and it's much easier to manage
> :: the "nut monster". lol
>
> I start wanting them the minute I see them on the shelf in the store. I'm
> lucky if they make it home unopenned. So, the solution is to not buy those
> large amounts. I've tried that business about breaking into reasonable
> quantities. But the mark of a true monster is that you'll search and
> destroy (ie, devour). If they are in the house, I won't rest until I have
> consumed them. Are you getting the picture now? :)


lol -- Yup! Got it! :)

> ::: Funny....I've never been one to overeat fruit, veggies, meat, fish,
> ::: fowl, dairy, etc. I can overeat carby stuff and nuts.
> ::
> :: Is it the Protein Power book that says they allow all the butter you
> :: want because who is going to sit down and eat a stick of butter? :)
>
> Yuck! However, people around there (as in ASDLC) drink oil...so you never
> know.


Ditto on the YUCK!

:)
 
I think I could, I love little slivers of very cold, very good butter,
melted on the tongue, mmmmmmmm. I have been buying the Horizon Organic
Butter and it is so tasty.

In news:[email protected],
Bailey's Girl <.@.> stated
|
| Is it the Protein Power book that says they allow all the butter you
| want because who is going to sit down and eat a stick of butter? :)
 
Cubit wrote:
>
> Carb cravings can go away.


Only as long as you stay low carb and don't eat addiction
triggers. I wonder how many just get used to not having
cravings so they think they've become immune to cravings
and end up falling off and deciding "it didn't work".

> I believe the reason many retain carb cravings
> is because of eating carbs. I'm suggesting in this thread that substitutes
> like LC bread, cake, and pasta may also be preserving the carb cravings.


There are cravings which have a physical basis, and
there are desires/habits which have a psychological
basis. Although they can be distinguished how many
ever teach themselves to tell the difference?

Actually eat high carb foods or trigger foods, keep
the physical cravings alive. Some use bars this
way an claim the bars help their cravings when they
actually keep them going.

Eat substitutes for high carb foods, keep the old
habits and desires alive. I wonder how many this is
a real problem for and how many this is nonsense for.
More importantly I wonder how many it is true for
who don't think it is (and end up failing) and how
many it is false for who do think it is (and end up
being unnecessarily strict). Lacking hard data I'm
conservative and figure it's more common than it
likely really is.
 

> Eat substitutes for high carb foods, keep the old
> habits and desires alive. I wonder how many this is
> a real problem for and how many this is nonsense for.
> More importantly I wonder how many it is true for
> who don't think it is (and end up failing) and how
> many it is false for who do think it is (and end up
> being unnecessarily strict). Lacking hard data I'm
> conservative and figure it's more common than it
> likely really is.


I have learned that if I eat 1 slice of whole wheat toast at the resturaunt
we eat at on wed. morning I dont crave high carb foods and can stop at 1.
If I took out the toaster and plugged it in I dont know if I could. For me
everything has its place. This last time I was eyeing peice #2 but gave it
to DH and he ate it happily.. Next week I will probably just have them give
me a pancake and slap it on his tall stack ;)

Tori

--
Xavier 10/04 "Hey mommy I can reach the middle of the coffee table if I
stand right here"
Bonnie 3/02 "No Xayur thats my blankie"
349.5/320/135
 
Roger Zoul wrote:
> Cubit wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> ::: What's strange about you, Dave, is that inspite of your success
> ::: with weight loss, by your own admission, you're only a bowl of
> ::: pasta, a slice of bread, or a piece of cake, away from regaining
> ::: all of your weight.


So am I. I have an addictive reaction towards wheat.
It takes a very small dosage to trigger a binge. I
when usually resist the binge, but not always. Since
it is an automatic reaction I don't always catch
myself and given a large enough dose I might be able
to catch myself.

> ::: That's really sad, if true.


It is also true of all alcoholics in AA. They are all
one drink from hitting their low all over again.

View that as sad if you will, but to me knowing it
gives me power over it. Once I knew WHAT was causing
the problem I knew I could avoid it from then on.

> :: Right. I am determined to be in the 5% who win, but I have a healthy
> :: respect for the 95% failure statistic.


Guess what the annual success rate for quiting
almost any addiction is aproximately?

> And by living in fear & deprivation, you hope to win? Time will tell....


Hope to win - Every day I don't have wheat is a day I
have won. Just like every day an alcoholic active in
AA stays off alcohol is a day won. Easy does it, one
day at a time.

Can even win after a loss - If i get dosed with wheat
I might or might not be able to catch the binge before
it stops. Binge or not, I tool to turn the cravings
off: Induction. Depending on how much wheat I've
eaten it might take a day of Induction or it might
take a week, but Induction will flip the off switch.
But whenever I fell off the wagon I do need to get
back on or I'll regain fat while I'm off the wagon.

Living in fear - I know exactly what my trigger is
and it is something I have complete control over. I
could totally avoid any risk food, or I could have an
occasional bowl of cream-of-whatever food without first
checking whether it has flour in it. That's a
judgement call on my part. For me it's rather like
having a panther in a cage and holding the keys to the
door on the cage. I have no fear of the panther so
long as the keys are in my possession. Knowledge is the
anti-fear.

Living in deprivation - That's a matter of attitudes.
You must have noticed that I have an attitude about
eating grain, MOO! I can chose my own attitude. I
could chose poor-old-me-can't-eat-cake and I'd be
screwed. Or I can chose who-wants-to-eat-grass-MOO
and feel great about eating real food. I chose not to
feel deprived. Wheat isn't food for me and that is a
mental decision I made years ago. If I eat grass
accidentally or even if I decide to eat grass once in
a year, I know exactly why and how to deal with it.

Roger,

You've written that Cubit and I write about our own
experiences and extend them to others. If I didn't pay
attention to the posts of others and if I only wrote
about my own experiences that would be true. But I
do report what I've learned from others and I track
trends. You think I do that too much, shrug.

Here's where it enters the gray ground of extending
to others: Attitudes about psychological risks.

I wouldn't give a near-beer to an alcoholic and I
worry about giving near-cake to a cake-aloholic. Some
are grown up enough to know they aren't a cake-aholic
and that they can have cake no matter my worries. Some
aren't. Some think they are but aren't. Some think
they aren't but are. It takes experimentation to
discover. You think I'm paranoid for worrying about
this, shrug. That misses that I think the
experimentation should be done on a schedule and that
it should be approached systematically, yet folks too
often just try stuff randomly and wonder what caused
some problem.
 
Doug Freyburger wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Cubit wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
:::::: What's strange about you, Dave, is that inspite of your success
:::::: with weight loss, by your own admission, you're only a bowl of
:::::: pasta, a slice of bread, or a piece of cake, away from regaining
:::::: all of your weight.
::
:: So am I. I have an addictive reaction towards wheat.
:: It takes a very small dosage to trigger a binge. I
:: when usually resist the binge, but not always. Since
:: it is an automatic reaction I don't always catch
:: myself and given a large enough dose I might be able
:: to catch myself.

Please. Are you suggesting that your simply eating one piece of wheat bread
is going to cause you to become obese? Get real.

I can be the same way toward nuts, yet I can control myself with them but
only eating them sometimes and not buying them in large amounts. Simple.
However, wheat is just one thing that has carbs. Saying I'm not going to
ever again eat a sweet potato because is is full of carbs is another matter.
Also, saying that would should never eat cake - even though it is a low carb
cake - like cheesecake or pork rind cake, is yet another matter.

::
:::::: That's really sad, if true.
::
:: It is also true of all alcoholics in AA. They are all
:: one drink from hitting their low all over again.

Alcohol is but one thing and is certaintly not essential to life. It is not
as complex as eating, since one has to eat. Comparing the two is not fair.

::
:: View that as sad if you will, but to me knowing it
:: gives me power over it. Once I knew WHAT was causing
:: the problem I knew I could avoid it from then on.

If you have no control over your use of alcohol, then don't drink alcohol.
If you have issue with wheat, then don't eat wheat. If you have issues with
eating too many carbs, then become a low carber. However, there are degrees
with anything. Not all of us here are going to fall into an endless carb
binge just because we had a piece of cake (unless we have absolutely no
desire for good health and maintaining). So giving blanket advice to never
eat cake again is stupid.

::
::::: Right. I am determined to be in the 5% who win, but I have a
::::: healthy respect for the 95% failure statistic.
::
:: Guess what the annual success rate for quiting
:: almost any addiction is aproximately?
::
::: And by living in fear & deprivation, you hope to win? Time will
::: tell....
::
:: Hope to win - Every day I don't have wheat is a day I
:: have won.

Apparently, you're in love with wheat, right?

:: Just like every day an alcoholic active in
:: AA stays off alcohol is a day won. Easy does it, one
:: day at a time.
::
:: Can even win after a loss - If i get dosed with wheat
:: I might or might not be able to catch the binge before
:: it stops. Binge or not, I tool to turn the cravings
:: off: Induction. Depending on how much wheat I've
:: eaten it might take a day of Induction or it might
:: take a week, but Induction will flip the off switch.

Why not just not eat wheat if it's so deadly do you?

:: But whenever I fell off the wagon I do need to get
:: back on or I'll regain fat while I'm off the wagon.
::

And what's wrong with that? That's my point. You got back on the wagon
because you actively want to control your weight.

:: Living in fear - I know exactly what my trigger is
:: and it is something I have complete control over.

Having a trigger is not the same thing as living in fear. Cubit fears that
if he eats a piece of cake he'll lose control and balloon back to 311 lbs.
You don't seem to live in fear. I don't either and I have as many issues
with food as most here.

I
:: could totally avoid any risk food, or I could have an
:: occasional bowl of cream-of-whatever food without first
:: checking whether it has flour in it. That's a
:: judgement call on my part. For me it's rather like
:: having a panther in a cage and holding the keys to the
:: door on the cage. I have no fear of the panther so
:: long as the keys are in my possession. Knowledge is the
:: anti-fear.

I agree. Also, having experience with occassional eating of carbs has
taught me that I can turn off the carb binge that I always experience when I
eat them. Knowledge is power. However, Cubit doesn't have that because he
is afraid.

::
:: Living in deprivation - That's a matter of attitudes.
:: You must have noticed that I have an attitude about
:: eating grain, MOO! I can chose my own attitude. I
:: could chose poor-old-me-can't-eat-cake and I'd be
:: screwed. Or I can chose who-wants-to-eat-grass-MOO
:: and feel great about eating real food. I chose not to
:: feel deprived. Wheat isn't food for me and that is a
:: mental decision I made years ago. If I eat grass
:: accidentally or even if I decide to eat grass once in
:: a year, I know exactly why and how to deal with it.

Fine. There where does deprivation enter into this for you? Others here,
however, want a LC alternative and the message here is NO, don't do that
because the LC version will lead you back down the path to fatness.
Perhaps, for some, it does. Perhaps, for others, who have experience and
KNOWLEDGE, it won't. Blanket recommendations dont work.

::
:: Roger,
::
:: You've written that Cubit and I write about our own
:: experiences and extend them to others.

Writing of your own experience is fine. However, telling folks that they'll
get fat again because they used a LC alternative is stupid. You don't and
can't know that what causes problems for you cause problems for others.

If I didn't pay
:: attention to the posts of others and if I only wrote
:: about my own experiences that would be true. But I
:: do report what I've learned from others and I track
:: trends. You think I do that too much, shrug.

My comments were directed at Cubit, but you're applying them to you. Shrug.

::
:: Here's where it enters the gray ground of extending
:: to others: Attitudes about psychological risks.
::
:: I wouldn't give a near-beer to an alcoholic and I
:: worry about giving near-cake to a cake-aloholic.

It's an alcoholic's responsibility to refuse to drink a near-beer. Same
with a cake-aloholic. I'm certainly not suggestig to folks to not heed
their own demons, doug. But there are various degrees of addiction, and you
can't know where everyone falls on that point.

Some
:: are grown up enough to know they aren't a cake-aholic
:: and that they can have cake no matter my worries. Some
:: aren't. Some think they are but aren't. Some think
:: they aren't but are. It takes experimentation to
:: discover.

Exactly. And did Cubit ever experiement? No, because his fear kept him from
it. And now, he assumes everyone is just like hm.

: You think I'm paranoid for worrying about
:: this, shrug.

Shrug. You're making this up as you go, right?

That misses that I think the
:: experimentation should be done on a schedule and that
:: it should be approached systematically, yet folks too
:: often just try stuff randomly and wonder what caused
:: some problem.

Okay? And? Shrug!
 
"FOB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If they have a high percentage of carbs they aren't low carb. Not all
> substitutes are like kind, either. A LC chocolate cheesecake could be a
> taste substitute for a regular chocolate cake but very low in carbs. I
> haven't eaten any of the tortillas or wraps but I know that some are quite
> low carb and they fill a need for some people. I never was a big sandwich
> eater so have had no desire to find a sandwich substitute for bread, but
> that's just me. Everyone needs to find the foods that make the WOE
> sustainable for them and that will be different for everyone. And if
> people
> are counting their carbs they aren't going to be eating only substitutes
> for
> bread. I haven't seen anyone talk about making these things the basis of
> their diet, they are enhancements, not the primary content.
>


Good Point. It's not just the percentage of carbs but the *type* of carbs
that matter. Even if a substitute has some level of carbs it usually has a
lower glycemic load. Atkins was very careful to say that the type of carb
mattered and just because a bread that was made with enriched white flour
was sliced thin and had a low carb count didn't make it appropriate. So a
diet soda with splenda will not have the same glycemic load as regular soda
made with high fructose corn syrup.

Sid...
 
In message <[email protected]>, Tori M.
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"FOB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Perhaps because they haven't found satisfying substitutes. If I want
>> something, not ever having it only makes me want it more. Having a
>> similar
>> substitute can satisfy my longing.
>>

>*nod* actualy I have found that some subs. are better then the real thing to
>me now.. I almost can not stand the taste of reg vanilla icecream anymore.


You have a low carb substitute for that? Please share!

I've been really craving ice cream lately (pregnant). The other day I
gave in and bought some - good stuff, real ingredients, no **** - and it
was so sweet I couldn't bear it. Horrible. I crunched some ice instead
:)

There are three aisles in my local hyperstore devoted to ice cream.
Lots of the products on offer there claim to be reduced fat or fat free,
but not one of them tries to be even reduced sugar, let alone sugar
free.

--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat