Along the prom, prom, prom.

[Colin Blackburn]

From:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3698679.stm

*On-spot fines for illegal cycling*

Cyclists who insist on riding their bikes along Hove seafront promenade
are facing on-the-spot fines.

A joint initiative between Sussex Police and Brighton and Hove City
Council is seeking to crack down on the illegal cyclists.

Police officers and council staff patrolled the area on Sunday, giving out
the £30 penalties.

Chair of community safety Gill Mitchell said cyclists should use the
special paths earmarked for them.

*Intimidating behaviour*

"The promenade is clearly sign-posted and people should be aware that
cycling is illegal.

"There is a newly revamped cycle path running the length of the seafront
from Brighton to Hove Lagoon for people who wish to cycle," she said.

Ms Mitchell added that officials did not wish to alienate cyclists.

"People who insist in cycling illegally need to be aware that their
behaviour is intimidating and dangerous for the many people who use the
promenade."


Colin

 

[Adrian Boliston]

"Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...

> Police officers and council staff patrolled the area on Sunday, giving out
> the £30 penalties.

Were they also on bikes or did they chase the "rogue" cyclists on foot?

 

[Iain Jones]

"Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in
news[email protected]:

>
> From:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3698679.stm
>
> *On-spot fines for illegal cycling*
>
> Cyclists who insist on riding their bikes along Hove seafront
> promenade are facing on-the-spot fines.
>


Could someone tell the pedestrians not to walk in the clearly-
signposted revamped cycle lane then please?

 

[Stan Cox]

Iain Jones wrote:
> "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news[email protected]:
>
>
>>From:
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3698679.stm
>>
>>*On-spot fines for illegal cycling*
>>
>>Cyclists who insist on riding their bikes along Hove seafront
>>promenade are facing on-the-spot fines.
>>
>
>
>
> Could someone tell the pedestrians not to walk in the clearly-
> signposted revamped cycle lane then please?
That would be nice. I will be using the roads for the rest of the summer
as they are much safer. You never know which direction the next tourist
is going to come from.

Stan Cox

P.s. If you see a fat bloke on a yellow Fausto Coppi that would be me,
give us a wave

 

[Tony Raven]

Iain Jones wrote:
>
> Could someone tell the pedestrians not to walk in the clearly-
> signposted revamped cycle lane then please?


Pedestrians are entitled to walk on the pavement or cycle lane. Cyclists are
entitled to cycle on the cycle lane but not the pavement.
Similarly
Cyclists are entitled to cycle on the road or cycle lane. Motorists are
entitled to drive on the road but not the cycle lane.

Ergo asking the pedestrians not to walk on the cycle lane when there is a
pavement nearby is like asking cyclists not to cycle on the road when there is
a cycle lane nearby.

We all know what cyclists think of that last piece of advice

Tony

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Mon, 10 May 2004 18:32:26 +0100, "Tony Raven"
<[email protected]> wrote (more or less):

>Iain Jones wrote:
>>
>> Could someone tell the pedestrians not to walk in the clearly-
>> signposted revamped cycle lane then please?
>
>
>Pedestrians are entitled to walk on the pavement or cycle lane. Cyclists are
>entitled to cycle on the cycle lane but not the pavement.
>Similarly
>Cyclists are entitled to cycle on the road or cycle lane. Motorists are
>entitled to drive on the road but not the cycle lane.
>
>Ergo asking the pedestrians not to walk on the cycle lane when there is a
>pavement nearby is like asking cyclists not to cycle on the road when there is
>a cycle lane nearby.

Except that pedestrians 'lane discipline' wrt roads is /much/ better
than it is wrt to on-pavement cycle lanes.

And pedestrians stepping in front of moving cars on the road are
encouraged variously to feel at least partly 'at fault' in many
on-road vehicle/pedestrian collisions.

So the analogy isn't quite as close as we'd like it to be.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Tony Raven]

Gawnsoft wrote:

>
> Except that pedestrians 'lane discipline' wrt roads is /much/ better
> than it is wrt to on-pavement cycle lanes.

Most cycle lanes aren't wide enough for that to be relevant
>
> And pedestrians stepping in front of moving cars on the road are
> encouraged variously to feel at least partly 'at fault' in many
> on-road vehicle/pedestrian collisions.
>

I think the gentleman said don't walk in the cycle lane, not don't step into
the cycle lane

> So the analogy isn't quite as close as we'd like it to be.

Close enough


Tony

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 08:31:09 +0100, "Tony Raven"
<[email protected]> wrote (more or less):

>Gawnsoft wrote:
>
>>
>> Except that pedestrians 'lane discipline' wrt roads is /much/ better
>> than it is wrt to on-pavement cycle lanes.
>
>Most cycle lanes aren't wide enough for that to be relevant

I don't know why this is, but most of the shared-use pavement
cyclepaths I've encountered are wide.

(unlike the modern-style 1' wide bit of red tarmac provided on-road).


>> And pedestrians stepping in front of moving cars on the road are
>> encouraged variously to feel at least partly 'at fault' in many
>> on-road vehicle/pedestrian collisions.
>>
>
>I think the gentleman said don't walk in the cycle lane, not don't step into
>the cycle lane

Okay then, pedestrians walking with the flow of motorised traffic are
encouraged variously, including by case-law precedent, to feel at
least partly 'at fault' in on-road vehicle/pedestrian collisions
which ar enot of the 'step into' variety.


>> So the analogy isn't quite as close as we'd like it to be.
>
>Close enough

I still beg to differ.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Howard]

>
> "People who insist in cycling illegally need to be aware that their
> behaviour is intimidating and dangerous for the many people who use the
> promenade."
>
>

It is about time the police and authorities adopted a similar approach
to those who drive at an excessive speed when passing cyclists!

 

[Tony Raven]

"Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "People who insist in cycling illegally need to be aware that their
> > behaviour is intimidating and dangerous for the many people who use the
> > promenade."
>
> It is about time the police and authorities adopted a similar approach
> to those who drive at an excessive speed when passing cyclists!

They are talking about cyclists cycling on the non-cycle track pavement. The
analogue would be to adopt a similar approach to those who drive on
cyclepaths. Driving at excessive speed is equivalent to cyclists who wing
past slower moving pedestrian on shared use facilities - a fairly common
occurrence which is not I believe the subject of this activity.

Tony

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

Gawnsoft wrote:

> I don't know why this is, but most of the shared-use pavement
> cyclepaths I've encountered are wide.

Presumably because the ones you don't see are so narrow as to be invisible
to the naked eye, like the ones around here ;-)

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

 

[James Hodson]

On Mon, 10 May 2004 16:51:56 +0000 (UTC), Iain Jones
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Cyclists who insist on riding their bikes along Hove seafront
>> promenade are facing on-the-spot fines.
>
>
>Could someone tell the pedestrians not to walk in the clearly-
>signposted revamped cycle lane then please?

Hi Iain

I assume you're a Brighton or Hove (actually) resident. I live in
Worthing and used to cycle along that part of the A259 reasonably
regularly.

IIRC, the sea front at Brigton has a cycle path which I used to try to
avoid but Hove does not. Incidentally, I'm never quite sure where the
Hove / Brighton boundary is.

Moreso (also IIRC), the A259 in what I consider to be the Brighton
part has signs which stongly suggest that cyclists use the prom cycle
path rather than the road itself. This path, as you say, is full of
meandering pedestrians.

I used to use the path when I was merely trundling and in no hurry;
especially when I was ahead of my self-imposed schedule. However, if I
was even in a semi-demi hurry, I'd always use the road. After all, the
traffic along that road never moves particularly quickly.

James

 

[Iain Jones]

James Hodson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Mon, 10 May 2004 16:51:56 +0000 (UTC), Iain Jones
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Cyclists who insist on riding their bikes along Hove seafront
>>> promenade are facing on-the-spot fines.
>>
>>
>>Could someone tell the pedestrians not to walk in the clearly-
>>signposted revamped cycle lane then please?
>
> Hi Iain
>
> I assume you're a Brighton or Hove (actually) resident. I live in
> Worthing and used to cycle along that part of the A259 reasonably
> regularly.

I'm from Liverpool actually ;-)

I admit, I posted that comment with no knowledge of the cycle track in
question, I'm just writing from experience of those up here. Lots of the
cycle tracks I use are a sensible width (at least two bike+rider widths I
reckon), red tarmac with white bike symbols, thick white line separating it
from the pavement and big blue signs at either end. One is even a proper
road, complete with kerbs, closed to motor vehicles. But the peds still
walk five-abreast in them and ignore any "coming through"s or "excuse me"s.

So wherever possible I use roads instead.

 

[Terry D]

Iain Jones wrote:

> I admit, I posted that comment with no knowledge of the cycle track in
> question, I'm just writing from experience of those up here. Lots of the
> cycle tracks I use are a sensible width (at least two bike+rider widths I
> reckon), red tarmac with white bike symbols, thick white line separating it
> from the pavement and big blue signs at either end. One is even a proper
> road, complete with kerbs, closed to motor vehicles. But the peds still
> walk five-abreast in them and ignore any "coming through"s or "excuse me"s.
>
> So wherever possible I use roads instead.

Sensible width or not, there appears to be a total lack of lane
discipline on the only cycle track on my commute. When cycling on the
road I tend to keep to the left so as to avoid colliding with vehicles
travelling in the opposite direction. This appears not to be the case
with the cycle track.

The cycle track in question, which is just wide enough to accommodate
two bicycles, runs up the hill by the sports centre in Guildford. I
tried it for size once and was amazed to find that cyclists going in the
opposite direction hadn't a clue how to behave when meeting oncoming
traffic. It may have been me of course, being totally unaware of how to
behave on a cycle track. It isn't marked as one way, there isn't a white
line down the middle, just some coloured tarmac and pictures of
pedestrians or bikes depending on which bit of the path you look at.

Are there any rules?

I stick to the road, the new bus lane is brilliant.

--
Terry Duckmanton.

The roads of the Kingdom were filling up with smoke breathing
dragonaughts. Evil Wizards created horseless chariots to take the unwary
traveller from zero to oblivion in four seconds.

Enter the good Knight, clad only in colourful singlet, hose and helmet,
urging his metal steed onward into the fray.

 

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 19:20:50 +0100 someone who may be Terry D
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>Sensible width or not, there appears to be a total lack of lane
>discipline on the only cycle track on my commute. When cycling on the
>road I tend to keep to the left so as to avoid colliding with vehicles
>travelling in the opposite direction. This appears not to be the case
>with the cycle track.

In the absence of signs there is no requirement to keep to the left
lane, if there is one, of a road or to pass on the left. AFAIK it is
a convention. On single track roads it can make sense to pass on the
right in some circumstances, though one has to allow for those who
cannot cope with such a concept.

>It isn't marked as one way, there isn't a white
>line down the middle,

So, in fact there are no lanes.

Relax, it's probably not as dangerous as you think. Risk
compensation.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[brian drury]

I cycle this route every day. Today is the first in years that I have
stopped using the prom in question and reverted to the cycle lane.

There can be no doubt that cycling is discouraged on the prom as the words
NO CYCLING are painted in huge letters many times on the ground. So why use
it you say? Well there are three options:

1. Use the prom (£30 fine)

2. Use cycle path. I have been punched twice. Sworn at many times. Had two
significant collisions (peds) umpteen animal incidents (dogs of various
forms) Several vehicle attacks, white vans and Volvo's are popular. People
do not like bicycles on the pavement, especially the nice red bit with the
white line that everyone prefers to walk on. Other significant obstacles are
roller blade users, skate board users and runners. All this lot are crammed
into a relatively narrow cycle lane.

3. Use the road (A259 runs parallel with both cycle lane and prom) The
problem with this is the taxi lorry and coach drivers know there is a
parallel cycle lane and they do their best to educate you into realising
this. The agressive tactics are probably familiar to all.

The prom is wide, very wide. This provides a huge advantage for rapid
avoidance techniques, I never even come close to impact on the prom even if
the ped level is high. There are simply no 'events' on the prom. The road or
particularly the cycle path produces at least one event per day in my
experience.

Suggestions (other than slow down) welcome.

Brian



"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "People who insist in cycling illegally need to be aware that their
> > > behaviour is intimidating and dangerous for the many people who use
the
> > > promenade."
> >
> > It is about time the police and authorities adopted a similar approach
> > to those who drive at an excessive speed when passing cyclists!
>
> They are talking about cyclists cycling on the non-cycle track pavement.
The
> analogue would be to adopt a similar approach to those who drive on
> cyclepaths. Driving at excessive speed is equivalent to cyclists who wing
> past slower moving pedestrian on shared use facilities - a fairly common
> occurrence which is not I believe the subject of this activity.
>
> Tony
>
>

 

[Jon Senior]

"brian drury" <briandotdruryatdsldotpipexdotcom> opined the
following...

> Suggestions (other than slow down) welcome.

Get a really big gun and wave it around with gay abandon while riding in
an otherwise sensible manner on the road. Try feigning a twitch and
generally give the impression of being of less than sound mind. It'll
put the fear of god into the drivers, and once they get to know you, you
won't even need the gun anymore. Don't worry about the police... they
only shoot people who carry banister rails in carrier bags!

Jon

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

brian drury wrote:

> Suggestions (other than slow down) welcome.

Write letters to the local paper, especially pointing out that you ave a
right to use the road; write to the council and ask them to do something
about the problem which is entirely of their own making; and in the mean
time, stick to the road whatever.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

 

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 21:11:12 +0100 someone who may be "brian drury"
<briandotdruryatdsldotpipexdotcom> wrote this:-

>Suggestions (other than slow down) welcome.

Wear a big cycle lock, or better a motorcycle lock, with the chain
around your shoulder like a bandolier. This makes stupid taxi
drivers think twice.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.