J
JRH
Guest
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:01:41 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>
[...]
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
>> >> >>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads
>> >> >>>are
>> >> >>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
>> >> >> to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
>> >> >> quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
>> >> >> "****"!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
>> >> >> exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
>> >> >> are.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
>> >> >
>> >> >Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
>> >> >and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
>> >> >extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
>> >> >your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
>> >> >and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
>> >>
>> >> "Like the squat, the deadlift involves the largest muscle groups in
>> >> the body: the gluteus maximus, hamstrings, quadriceps and erector
>> >> spinea. And like the squat, it is a very hard, taxing exercise to
>> >> perform. Consequently, for this reason alone many people don’t use the
>> >> deadlift in their routines.
>> >>
>> >> The gluteus maximus is utilized most in the beginning of the movement
>> >> when there is a large degree of hip flexion. The glutes work in unison
>> >> with the hamstring to extend the hips. The hamstrings, located on the
>> >> back of the upper thigh, become more involved as you begin to decrease
>> >> the degree of hip flexion as you raise the weight. The erector spinea,
>> >> which run the length of your spine on both sides, are statically
>> >> contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the normal
>> >> curvature of the spine. A static contraction of the rhomboids and the
>> >> trapezius muscles help maintain the shoulders. The quadriceps muscles
>> >> are involved with knee extension.
>> >>
>> >> Extension of the body occurs when the upper body, torso and pelvis
>> >> rotate up and back. In a properly performed deadlift, this will happen
>> >> simultaneously with the hips moving forward and the knees extending.
>> >> Two of the biggest mistakes I see when this movement is performed are
>> >> locking the knees out before the upper body is extended or allowing
>> >> the back to “round” and magnifying the kyphotic (upper back) curvature
>> >> while de-emphasizing the lordotic (lower back) curvature. I need to
>> >> add that a slight curve of the upper back will present no danger and
>> >> will happen to most while using heavy weight, but if you look like the
>> >> hunch back of Notre Dame while performing the exercise that’s a
>> >> different story."
>> >
>> >John - read paragraph two of your paste.
>> >
>> >"The erector spinea, which run the length of your spine on both sides,
>> >are statically contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the
>> >normal curvature of the spine."
>> >
>> >Isometric = static
>> >
>> >You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
>> >Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.
>>
>> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html
>
>It works it isometrically - it isn't a primer mover. basically restates
>my point John. The spinal erectors are not a prime mover in the
>deadlift. They are worked hard isometrically.
Which brings me back to my original point Keith, and why this is a
long-running MFW 'golden oldie'.
Whatever stance you take on the deadlift (no pun intended), you can
never be right, and you can never be wrong, because there is no prime
mover, or not one that anyone can explain to everyone else's
satisfaction.
It is a very complex exercise with many muscles involved in the
complete ROM, in varying capacities, but not one of them is the prime
mover.
Who said we never have any good on-topic posts anymore? ;o)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>
[...]
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
>> >> >>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads
>> >> >>>are
>> >> >>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
>> >> >> to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
>> >> >> quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
>> >> >> "****"!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
>> >> >> exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
>> >> >> are.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
>> >> >
>> >> >Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
>> >> >and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
>> >> >extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
>> >> >your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
>> >> >and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
>> >>
>> >> "Like the squat, the deadlift involves the largest muscle groups in
>> >> the body: the gluteus maximus, hamstrings, quadriceps and erector
>> >> spinea. And like the squat, it is a very hard, taxing exercise to
>> >> perform. Consequently, for this reason alone many people don’t use the
>> >> deadlift in their routines.
>> >>
>> >> The gluteus maximus is utilized most in the beginning of the movement
>> >> when there is a large degree of hip flexion. The glutes work in unison
>> >> with the hamstring to extend the hips. The hamstrings, located on the
>> >> back of the upper thigh, become more involved as you begin to decrease
>> >> the degree of hip flexion as you raise the weight. The erector spinea,
>> >> which run the length of your spine on both sides, are statically
>> >> contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the normal
>> >> curvature of the spine. A static contraction of the rhomboids and the
>> >> trapezius muscles help maintain the shoulders. The quadriceps muscles
>> >> are involved with knee extension.
>> >>
>> >> Extension of the body occurs when the upper body, torso and pelvis
>> >> rotate up and back. In a properly performed deadlift, this will happen
>> >> simultaneously with the hips moving forward and the knees extending.
>> >> Two of the biggest mistakes I see when this movement is performed are
>> >> locking the knees out before the upper body is extended or allowing
>> >> the back to “round” and magnifying the kyphotic (upper back) curvature
>> >> while de-emphasizing the lordotic (lower back) curvature. I need to
>> >> add that a slight curve of the upper back will present no danger and
>> >> will happen to most while using heavy weight, but if you look like the
>> >> hunch back of Notre Dame while performing the exercise that’s a
>> >> different story."
>> >
>> >John - read paragraph two of your paste.
>> >
>> >"The erector spinea, which run the length of your spine on both sides,
>> >are statically contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the
>> >normal curvature of the spine."
>> >
>> >Isometric = static
>> >
>> >You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
>> >Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.
>>
>> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html
>
>It works it isometrically - it isn't a primer mover. basically restates
>my point John. The spinal erectors are not a prime mover in the
>deadlift. They are worked hard isometrically.
Which brings me back to my original point Keith, and why this is a
long-running MFW 'golden oldie'.
Whatever stance you take on the deadlift (no pun intended), you can
never be right, and you can never be wrong, because there is no prime
mover, or not one that anyone can explain to everyone else's
satisfaction.
It is a very complex exercise with many muscles involved in the
complete ROM, in varying capacities, but not one of them is the prime
mover.
Who said we never have any good on-topic posts anymore? ;o)