alternative to squats



On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:01:41 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>

[...]

>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
>> >> >>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads
>> >> >>>are
>> >> >>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
>> >> >> to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
>> >> >> quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
>> >> >> "****"!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
>> >> >> exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
>> >> >> are.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
>> >> >
>> >> >Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
>> >> >and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
>> >> >extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
>> >> >your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
>> >> >and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
>> >>
>> >> "Like the squat, the deadlift involves the largest muscle groups in
>> >> the body: the gluteus maximus, hamstrings, quadriceps and erector
>> >> spinea. And like the squat, it is a very hard, taxing exercise to
>> >> perform. Consequently, for this reason alone many people don’t use the
>> >> deadlift in their routines.
>> >>
>> >> The gluteus maximus is utilized most in the beginning of the movement
>> >> when there is a large degree of hip flexion. The glutes work in unison
>> >> with the hamstring to extend the hips. The hamstrings, located on the
>> >> back of the upper thigh, become more involved as you begin to decrease
>> >> the degree of hip flexion as you raise the weight. The erector spinea,
>> >> which run the length of your spine on both sides, are statically
>> >> contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the normal
>> >> curvature of the spine. A static contraction of the rhomboids and the
>> >> trapezius muscles help maintain the shoulders. The quadriceps muscles
>> >> are involved with knee extension.
>> >>
>> >> Extension of the body occurs when the upper body, torso and pelvis
>> >> rotate up and back. In a properly performed deadlift, this will happen
>> >> simultaneously with the hips moving forward and the knees extending.
>> >> Two of the biggest mistakes I see when this movement is performed are
>> >> locking the knees out before the upper body is extended or allowing
>> >> the back to “round” and magnifying the kyphotic (upper back) curvature
>> >> while de-emphasizing the lordotic (lower back) curvature. I need to
>> >> add that a slight curve of the upper back will present no danger and
>> >> will happen to most while using heavy weight, but if you look like the
>> >> hunch back of Notre Dame while performing the exercise that’s a
>> >> different story."
>> >
>> >John - read paragraph two of your paste.
>> >
>> >"The erector spinea, which run the length of your spine on both sides,
>> >are statically contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the
>> >normal curvature of the spine."
>> >
>> >Isometric = static
>> >
>> >You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
>> >Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.

>>
>> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html

>
>It works it isometrically - it isn't a primer mover. basically restates
>my point John. The spinal erectors are not a prime mover in the
>deadlift. They are worked hard isometrically.


Which brings me back to my original point Keith, and why this is a
long-running MFW 'golden oldie'.

Whatever stance you take on the deadlift (no pun intended), you can
never be right, and you can never be wrong, because there is no prime
mover, or not one that anyone can explain to everyone else's
satisfaction.

It is a very complex exercise with many muscles involved in the
complete ROM, in varying capacities, but not one of them is the prime
mover.

Who said we never have any good on-topic posts anymore? ;o)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
JRH <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:01:41 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
> >

> [...]
>
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very
> >> >> >>>>popular
> >> >> >>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to
> >> >> >>>>squats"!
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads
> >> >> >>>are
> >> >> >>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
> >> >> >> to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
> >> >> >> quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
> >> >> >> "****"!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
> >> >> >> exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> are.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
> >> >> >and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
> >> >> >extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
> >> >> >your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
> >> >> >and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Like the squat, the deadlift involves the largest muscle groups in
> >> >> the body: the gluteus maximus, hamstrings, quadriceps and erector
> >> >> spinea. And like the squat, it is a very hard, taxing exercise to
> >> >> perform. Consequently, for this reason alone many people don’t use the
> >> >> deadlift in their routines.
> >> >>
> >> >> The gluteus maximus is utilized most in the beginning of the movement
> >> >> when there is a large degree of hip flexion. The glutes work in unison
> >> >> with the hamstring to extend the hips. The hamstrings, located on the
> >> >> back of the upper thigh, become more involved as you begin to decrease
> >> >> the degree of hip flexion as you raise the weight. The erector spinea,
> >> >> which run the length of your spine on both sides, are statically
> >> >> contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the normal
> >> >> curvature of the spine. A static contraction of the rhomboids and the
> >> >> trapezius muscles help maintain the shoulders. The quadriceps muscles
> >> >> are involved with knee extension.
> >> >>
> >> >> Extension of the body occurs when the upper body, torso and pelvis
> >> >> rotate up and back. In a properly performed deadlift, this will happen
> >> >> simultaneously with the hips moving forward and the knees extending.
> >> >> Two of the biggest mistakes I see when this movement is performed are
> >> >> locking the knees out before the upper body is extended or allowing
> >> >> the back to “round” and magnifying the kyphotic (upper back) curvature
> >> >> while de-emphasizing the lordotic (lower back) curvature. I need to
> >> >> add that a slight curve of the upper back will present no danger and
> >> >> will happen to most while using heavy weight, but if you look like the
> >> >> hunch back of Notre Dame while performing the exercise that’s a
> >> >> different story."
> >> >
> >> >John - read paragraph two of your paste.
> >> >
> >> >"The erector spinea, which run the length of your spine on both sides,
> >> >are statically contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the
> >> >normal curvature of the spine."
> >> >
> >> >Isometric = static
> >> >
> >> >You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
> >> >Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.
> >>
> >> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html

> >
> >It works it isometrically - it isn't a primer mover. basically restates
> >my point John. The spinal erectors are not a prime mover in the
> >deadlift. They are worked hard isometrically.

>
> Which brings me back to my original point Keith, and why this is a
> long-running MFW 'golden oldie'.
>
> Whatever stance you take on the deadlift (no pun intended), you can
> never be right, and you can never be wrong, because there is no prime
> mover, or not one that anyone can explain to everyone else's
> satisfaction.
>
> It is a very complex exercise with many muscles involved in the
> complete ROM, in varying capacities, but not one of them is the prime
> mover.
>
> Who said we never have any good on-topic posts anymore? ;o)


You raise a good point. Complex.

On topic.

And on Friday to boot.

Hell with it. I'm going to the pub.

:^)

--
Keith
 
>For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack, or even a proper bench.>

Life's tough all over. I thought most prisons had machines to replace
those things you don't have access to?
 
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:20:12 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:01:41 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> > JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >

>> [...]
>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very
>> >> >> >>>>popular
>> >> >> >>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to
>> >> >> >>>>squats"!
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads
>> >> >> >>>are
>> >> >> >>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
>> >> >> >> to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
>> >> >> >> quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
>> >> >> >> "****"!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
>> >> >> >> exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that
>> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> are.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
>> >> >> >and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
>> >> >> >extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
>> >> >> >your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
>> >> >> >and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Like the squat, the deadlift involves the largest muscle groups in
>> >> >> the body: the gluteus maximus, hamstrings, quadriceps and erector
>> >> >> spinea. And like the squat, it is a very hard, taxing exercise to
>> >> >> perform. Consequently, for this reason alone many people don’t use the
>> >> >> deadlift in their routines.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The gluteus maximus is utilized most in the beginning of the movement
>> >> >> when there is a large degree of hip flexion. The glutes work in unison
>> >> >> with the hamstring to extend the hips. The hamstrings, located on the
>> >> >> back of the upper thigh, become more involved as you begin to decrease
>> >> >> the degree of hip flexion as you raise the weight. The erector spinea,
>> >> >> which run the length of your spine on both sides, are statically
>> >> >> contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the normal
>> >> >> curvature of the spine. A static contraction of the rhomboids and the
>> >> >> trapezius muscles help maintain the shoulders. The quadriceps muscles
>> >> >> are involved with knee extension.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Extension of the body occurs when the upper body, torso and pelvis
>> >> >> rotate up and back. In a properly performed deadlift, this will happen
>> >> >> simultaneously with the hips moving forward and the knees extending.
>> >> >> Two of the biggest mistakes I see when this movement is performed are
>> >> >> locking the knees out before the upper body is extended or allowing
>> >> >> the back to “round” and magnifying the kyphotic (upper back) curvature
>> >> >> while de-emphasizing the lordotic (lower back) curvature. I need to
>> >> >> add that a slight curve of the upper back will present no danger and
>> >> >> will happen to most while using heavy weight, but if you look like the
>> >> >> hunch back of Notre Dame while performing the exercise that’s a
>> >> >> different story."
>> >> >
>> >> >John - read paragraph two of your paste.
>> >> >
>> >> >"The erector spinea, which run the length of your spine on both sides,
>> >> >are statically contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the
>> >> >normal curvature of the spine."
>> >> >
>> >> >Isometric = static
>> >> >
>> >> >You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
>> >> >Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html
>> >
>> >It works it isometrically - it isn't a primer mover. basically restates
>> >my point John. The spinal erectors are not a prime mover in the
>> >deadlift. They are worked hard isometrically.

>>
>> Which brings me back to my original point Keith, and why this is a
>> long-running MFW 'golden oldie'.
>>
>> Whatever stance you take on the deadlift (no pun intended), you can
>> never be right, and you can never be wrong, because there is no prime
>> mover, or not one that anyone can explain to everyone else's
>> satisfaction.
>>
>> It is a very complex exercise with many muscles involved in the
>> complete ROM, in varying capacities, but not one of them is the prime
>> mover.
>>
>> Who said we never have any good on-topic posts anymore? ;o)

>
>You raise a good point. Complex.
>
>On topic.
>
>And on Friday to boot.


That's because I'm still on my annual bant with another 7 lbs to lose.
Should be through before the end of February, and then it's back to
having a "great weekend" again.

I put on an astonishing 21 lbs (plus bloat) over the period Easter
2005 - New Year 2006. However, when you remember that only 500
calories a day above maintenance, will mean a massive 52 lbs over the
course of a full year, I didn't do too badly.

>
>Hell with it. I'm going to the pub.


Cheers mate, have one for me! ;o)
 
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.


But "daddy raping" does????
 
JRH wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 03:04:05 +0800, spodosaurus
> <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
>
>
>>JRH wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:51:45 +0800, spodosaurus
>>><spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:

>
> [...]
>
>
>>>>>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
>>>>>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
>>>>>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
>>>>>to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
>>>>>quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
>>>>>"****"!
>>>>>
>>>>>On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
>>>>>exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
>>>>>are.
>>>>>
>>>>>Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
>>>>
>>>>Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
>>>>and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
>>>>extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
>>>>your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
>>>>and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
>>>

>>
>>How can they be a prime mover when they are not themselves moving?
>>They're contracted statically...

>
>
> Do a search on Static contraptions and come back to me.


Just like the abdominals are not the prime movers in the leg raise (it's
the iliopsoas), the erector spinae are not the prime movers in the
deadlift: they neither cross the hip nor the knee joints.

Also, the only static contraptions I found were these devices to make
your hair stand on end. I have a couple anti-static contraptions, but I
need those for my computer work so I don't bring them to the gym.

Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 
JRH wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:46:58 +0000, JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:12:25 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:51:45 +0800, spodosaurus
>>>><spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>JRH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 12:18:17 -0600, Hobbes <[email protected]>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>JRH <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
>>>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In article <8%[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>>>"Art S" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hi, folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
>>>>>>>>>>>rack,
>>>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>>even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
>>>>>>>>>>>want
>>>>>>>>>>>to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>like
>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over
>>>>>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>>>>head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
>>>>>>>>>>>forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
>>>>>>>>>>>better
>>>>>>>>>>>alternative?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Johan Larson
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Deadlifts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Art
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
>>>>>>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
>>>>>>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
>>>>>>to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
>>>>>>quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
>>>>>>"****"!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
>>>>>>exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
>>>>>>are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
>>>>>
>>>>>Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
>>>>>and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
>>>>>extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
>>>>>your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
>>>>>and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
>>>>
>>>>"Like the squat, the deadlift involves the largest muscle groups in
>>>>the body: the gluteus maximus, hamstrings, quadriceps and erector
>>>>spinea. And like the squat, it is a very hard, taxing exercise to
>>>>perform. Consequently, for this reason alone many people don’t use the
>>>>deadlift in their routines.
>>>>
>>>>The gluteus maximus is utilized most in the beginning of the movement
>>>>when there is a large degree of hip flexion. The glutes work in unison
>>>>with the hamstring to extend the hips. The hamstrings, located on the
>>>>back of the upper thigh, become more involved as you begin to decrease
>>>>the degree of hip flexion as you raise the weight. The erector spinea,
>>>>which run the length of your spine on both sides, are statically
>>>>contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the normal
>>>>curvature of the spine. A static contraction of the rhomboids and the
>>>>trapezius muscles help maintain the shoulders. The quadriceps muscles
>>>>are involved with knee extension.
>>>>
>>>>Extension of the body occurs when the upper body, torso and pelvis
>>>>rotate up and back. In a properly performed deadlift, this will happen
>>>>simultaneously with the hips moving forward and the knees extending.
>>>>Two of the biggest mistakes I see when this movement is performed are
>>>>locking the knees out before the upper body is extended or allowing
>>>>the back to “round” and magnifying the kyphotic (upper back) curvature
>>>>while de-emphasizing the lordotic (lower back) curvature. I need to
>>>>add that a slight curve of the upper back will present no danger and
>>>>will happen to most while using heavy weight, but if you look like the
>>>>hunch back of Notre Dame while performing the exercise that’s a
>>>>different story."
>>>
>>>John - read paragraph two of your paste.
>>>
>>>"The erector spinea, which run the length of your spine on both sides,
>>>are statically contracted throughout most of the movement keeping the
>>>normal curvature of the spine."
>>>
>>>Isometric = static
>>>
>>>You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
>>>Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.

>>
>>http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html

>
>
> I forgot to add:
>
> "Target muscle is exercised isometrically. Throughout lift keep hips
> low, shoulders high, arms and back straight. Keep bar close to body to
> improve mechanical leverage. Also see Deadlift under Gluteus Maximus"
>
> But that doesn't make the quads/glutes/hamstrings the prime movers.


LOL, exrx is not exactly the authority on science in training

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:07:18 +0800, spodosaurus
<spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:

>JRH wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 03:04:05 +0800, spodosaurus
>> <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>JRH wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:51:45 +0800, spodosaurus
>>>><spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:

>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
>>>>>>>>exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
>>>>>>>movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
>>>>>>to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
>>>>>>quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
>>>>>>"****"!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
>>>>>>exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
>>>>>>are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily,
>>>>>
>>>>>Deadlifts involve mainly isometric contraction of the back musculature
>>>>>and the bar simply does not come off the ground without hip and knee
>>>>>extension (quads, hamstrings, gluteii). You can grab a bar and tighten
>>>>>your back all day, but it will not come off the ground without the leg
>>>>>and hip muscles acting as prime movers.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Prime movers they are not, the prime mover is the erector spinae:
>>>>
>>>
>>>How can they be a prime mover when they are not themselves moving?
>>>They're contracted statically...

>>
>>
>> Do a search on Static contraptions and come back to me.

>
>Just like the abdominals are not the prime movers in the leg raise (it's
>the iliopsoas), the erector spinae are not the prime movers in the
>deadlift: they neither cross the hip nor the knee joints.


If there *was* a prime mover then it would have to be the erector
spinae. However, given that they are only contracting statically, then
they cannot formally be the prime movers.

All other muscles involved in the full ROM of the lift, are only
utilised at various stages and not throughout, thus there are no prime
movers in the deadlift, which was the point I was making.

>
>Also, the only static contraptions I found were these devices to make
>your hair stand on end. I have a couple anti-static contraptions, but I
>need those for my computer work so I don't bring them to the gym.


Good pull, given that the p is nowhere near the c, so I put my hands
up to a ****-up on the spelling front'. ;o)

HAGW!
 
"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> "The Crow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I find the barbell deadlift, whichever variation, quite hard to get
>> spot on formwise - which I realise is my own fault - and that, for me,
>> you really need a trap/shrug bar to get it spot on, which will cost
>> more, and take up more room, than a cheapo pair of squat stands.

>
> What's the problem? Do you have a physique that makes it difficult to get
> the bar to clear your knees without skinning them?
>

Yes. I find that, in order to avoid my knees, I subconsciously swing
forward a little, thus putting my back in the shadow of the valley of
vertebra death.