alternative transport



BT Humble wrote:

> I was planning to use some 40mm square hollow section for the "boom"


Hmm, I don't have enough practical experience either. I've been looking
for a while and noticed that much of the old stuff used multiple tubes
and a long steering head.
either

> without needing to use complex jigwork.


Lol, tell me about.

It looks to me as though the combination of forward
> angled steering head and trailing front axle mounts (i.e. behind the
> steering head) on the christianiabikes designs is intended to make the
> trike naturally inclined to steer straight ahead, so I'll do that
> too. Using a small amount of positive camber on the wheels (bottoms
> sloped outwards) will help the steering.


That is the crunch. If it self centres, it will be a far easier ride.
you are going to have enough problems thrusting that weight from side to
side.

> also because they have thicker walls and are less likely to
> warp under the heat of arc welding (with a stick welder).


See if you can find some pipe to shoehorn inside. It will help with heat
control. Sadly, I know it is going to be hard as nothing common does
that. I'm probably going to have to get a local guy to turn down some
solid rod for me as my heat control is awful.

The only problem with one piece cranks in this application is that you
are suddenly putting all the weight on them, rather than just the force
on one peddle. That is why I'm saving a longish headstem and fork remnant.

OTOH, they are easy to come buy in rubbish on the foot path, so you can
easily grind the old one off and weld on a new one.

If you hand is steady enough,there are 1.5(?)mm rods about. $56 for a
box which is expensive compared to the yumcha brands. Also requires your
welder to have good low current control (mine doesn't).
>
> If there are proper technical terms that I should be using intstead of
> "boom", "steering head" and "turntable", please let me know. I'm just
> not sure that "headstem" is appropriate in this case. ;-)


Don't ask me, I don't know. In any case I understood you perfectly.

I am still at the planning stage as well as I need to buy a oxy set
kit(<=$400), then get the bottle (~$200 for a fill and $240pa rental =
ouch). so I want to have a pile of projects ready to go so I burn the
gas up fast and get the bottles back fast.
 
Theo Bekkers wrote:

> Well yes. We bought the gopher for m-i-l in 1995 and the batteries were
> replaced two years ago. I thought that was pretty good, ten years and it
> gets used almost daily.


Riding pattern?
Would love some more details when you have time.
 
Donga wrote:

> I read all of that, and it was worth it, thanks Patrick.


Blink! Wadda are you? His straight man or something?

Are you seriously trying to tell us that at no stage the woop-woop
******** alert didn't sound?

pt is firmly of the school that if you can not dazzle them with
brilliance, then baffle them with ********, Copious amounts in pt's
case. Surely you have twigged to this?

The kindest thing that can be said is that some of his knowledge is way
out of date. About as appropriate as "people who ride in motor cars will
be asphixiated if they travel above 10mph".


Hint 1, lots of people have solar arrays on their urban roof and do not
pay for mains electricity.

Hint 2, even if you are a raving nutcase yourself and irrespective of
what you think of them, whenever someone starts rabbitting on about
"greenies" you are definitely entering lala land and about to be dumped
under a pile of ****.
 
On Sep 13, 5:48 pm, Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:
> Donga wrote:
> > I read all of that, and it was worth it, thanks Patrick.

>
> Blink! Wadda are you? His straight man or something?
>
> Are you seriously trying to tell us that at no stage the woop-woop
> ******** alert didn't sound?
>
> pt is firmly of the school that if you can not dazzle them with
> brilliance, then baffle them with ********, Copious amounts in pt's
> case. Surely you have twigged to this?
>
> The kindest thing that can be said is that some of his knowledge is way
> out of date. About as appropriate as "people who ride in motor cars will
> be asphixiated if they travel above 10mph".
>
> Hint 1, lots of people have solar arrays on their urban roof and do not
> pay for mains electricity.
>
> Hint 2, even if you are a raving nutcase yourself and irrespective of
> what you think of them, whenever someone starts rabbitting on about
> "greenies" you are definitely entering lala land and about to be dumped
> under a pile of ****.


What's wrong with enjoying a lot of quite well-written whimsy? It's an
improvement on your ranting Terry.
 
ray wrote:

> How far and how fast can you propel about a quarter ton up a steep slope
> using the motor out of a blender at low voltage?


Why would you use any motor at the wrong voltage?
>
> I suspect `not much' in both cases. But that's all those shiteheads at
> VicRoads (and other state road authorities) will give you.


What you need to ask is 600W @ 1/3 PWM = 200W. Aka you have the torque
of 600W in pulses.

BTW, isyour brother going to pedal at all?

> So I'm sure my brother will be very pleased to know he's
> doomed in all respects from the start.


Not all. He jus needs to change the acceptable performance parameters.
What does seem definite is that he is going to need a trike.
 
Terryc wrote:
> The only problem with one piece cranks in this application is that you
> are suddenly putting all the weight on them, rather than just the force
> on one peddle. That is why I'm saving a longish headstem and fork remnant.


Well... I'm not so sure. Isn't most of the weight borne by the
turntable, which is supported by the 2 front wheels? It seems to me
that the steering bearing isn't going to be copping much of a thrust
load (i.e. pushing down on the bearing), it's just the weight of the
rider at the end of a long lever...

> OTOH, they are easy to come buy in rubbish on the foot path, so you can
> easily grind the old one off and weld on a new one.


This is just a prototype, hence it's made out of old bike frames, a
couple of scrap bikes, and some bits and pieces of pipe from my junk
pile. If it looks like being the goods I'll use something more heavy-
duty (maybe a trailer spindle & bearings) for the "real" unit.

> If you hand is steady enough,there are 1.5(?)mm rods about. $56 for a
> box which is expensive compared to the yumcha brands. Also requires your
> welder to have good low current control (mine doesn't).


I've been looking for those, but the best I've been able to find is
2mm - where have you found them?

> > If there are proper technical terms that I should be using intstead of
> > "boom", "steering head" and "turntable", please let me know. I'm just
> > not sure that "headstem" is appropriate in this case. ;-)

>
> Don't ask me, I don't know. In any case I understood you perfectly.


;-)

> I am still at the planning stage as well as I need to buy a oxy set
> kit(<=$400), then get the bottle (~$200 for a fill and $240pa rental =
> ouch). so I want to have a pile of projects ready to go so I burn the
> gas up fast and get the bottles back fast.


I'm going the "little money at stake" route, if it turns out to be
hopeless I'll only be out of pocket for a few welding rods and angle
grinder disks. I'm prepared to go that far for a prototype. ;-)


BTH
 
ray said:
[snip]
I should obviously submit this one to Mythbusters -

How far and how fast can you propel about a quarter ton up a steep slope
using the motor out of a blender at low voltage?

I suspect `not much' in both cases. But that's all those shiteheads at
VicRoads (and other state road authorities) will give you. So I'm sure
my brother will be very pleased to know he's doomed in all respects from
the start.
Cheers,
Ray

I think that's a little unfair - you can have as much power as you want, but it becomes a motorcycle and so the rules for motorcycles apply.

If you live up a steep hill and then complain that you need lots of power to get up there...

Ritch
 
BT Humble wrote:
> Terryc wrote:


> Well... I'm not so sure. Isn't most of the weight borne by the
> turntable, which is supported by the 2 front wheels? It seems to me
> that the steering bearing isn't going to be copping much of a thrust
> load (i.e. pushing down on the bearing), it's just the weight of the
> rider at the end of a long lever...


It isn't so much the bearing that I see as the problem, but the fact
that the force on one side is transmitted by a 40mm square tube and on
the other side by 1/2" (?) solid rod of not so wonderful steel.

This is why i liked the 1" diameter of the head stem.

By all means give it a go. As you say, it is a prototype.

> This is just a prototype, hence it's made out of old bike frames, a
> couple of scrap bikes, and some bits and pieces of pipe from my junk
> pile.


Yep, way to go.

> If it looks like being the goods I'll use something more heavy-
> duty (maybe a trailer spindle & bearings) for the "real" unit.


Well, you'll need a bit of axle. it will certainly be solid.

Bing;the rubber blocks they put into the hitch of off road trailers.
They might be better in that they'd do the keep it up job,but not
transmit the full shock. Sort of a sloppy bearing with resistance.
Something for the list. Depends on size of bolts.


>>If you hand is steady enough,there are 1.5(?)mm rods about. $56 for a
>>box which is expensive compared to the yumcha brands. Also requires your
>>welder to have good low current control (mine doesn't).

>
>
> I've been looking for those, but the best I've been able to find is
> 2mm - where have you found them?


I found them at Gas Weld, which is a rear supplier of welding gear, as
opposed to the junk tool shops that sell a bit of welding stuff
occassionally. I think peeps here must be going gasless migs (junk in my
books), so they don't carry much stick stock now, compared to a few
years ago.

Hmm, do the string maths in the address (remove "spam-spam") and send me
your snail. I'll check that the size isn't wrong and post some for you
to try out your welder. Then you'll know if it is worthwhile getting them.

I'm fairly sure that is the right size as I'm out of 2mm as I can only
get them in small packs atm and I have almost a new boxen of these.


> I'm going the "little money at stake" route, if it turns out to be
> hopeless I'll only be out of pocket for a few welding rods and angle
> grinder disks. I'm prepared to go that far for a prototype. ;-)


Lol, most of my work is just using scap steel.

I have a pile of stuff I want to do, other projects, so the cost of
getting the kit is worth it. It is just turning over the bottles fast
enough to not waste gas.

Procrastinated long enough that I've noticd they have brought out proper
gas mig for homeusers with disposible bottle of different gas. Very
tempted to detour via a little mig for the light stuff.
 
Donga wrote:
>
> On Sep 13, 12:52 pm, Patrick Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ray wrote:
> >
> > > Having a discussion (well, more like argument, he signed off snottily)
> > > with my brother yesterday about alternate modes of transport.
> > > Planning for The End of the World As We Know It (conveniently, after he
> > > retires) AKA When the Oil Runs Out, he wants to build a vehicle,
> > > preferably electric, that will allow him to do the basics he does now.
> > > So check this out. He wants to haul a load of 160 kg for 10 km on a
> > > gradient of 1 in 10, on the power of a hair-dryer running on only 60,
> > > not 240, volts.
> > > Where do those figures come in? 160 kg is based on Bro's weight (c. 80
> > > kg), the weight of an average weekly load of shopping I haul (20-30 kg),
> > > and the weight of the vehicle and batteries (40-50 kg). The 10 km is the
> > > distance from his place to the shops, and the 1 in 10 because he chose
> > > many years ago to live on the ridge at an altitude of 500m. (I live at
> > > 147m and use a conventional bike trailer)
> > > And the asthmatic hair-dryer? Well, that, (hair-dryers are about 800W,
> > > so one quarter of that is 200W) or 49cc if petrol powered (assuming
> > > there's any petrol) is all the power rating you get before incurring
> > > Divine Wrath.
> > > Or in other words VicRoads, which is near enough the same thing.
> > > Anything with more power than that has to be Registered. And he wants
> > > to home build this himself, which is an absolute no-no.
> > > So I hereby christen this putative vehicle the Asthmatic Hair-Dryer. And
> > > I want to be invited to the maiden run, so I can watch the uselessly
> > > heavy beast conk out half way up the hill. Not to mention being told to
> > > get off the f---ing road by the Land Barges (as I have been with the
> > > trailer several times).
> > > Cheers,
> > > Ray

> >
> > Next door to me, a kid of about 8 is experimenting with electric bikes
> > and
> > scooters, and maybe when he matures with his ideas something will come
> > of it all,
> > and perhaps whatever he makes will become attractive to those forced to
> > give up motoring
> > when oil runs out, and when "carbon taxes" have become grossly onerous
> > to pay.
> > Maybe nothing comes of it, and when he turns 18, his hormones will lead
> > him to a sheila,
> > and from there to having children, and without fixing the world's
> > problems first.
> >
> > A racing cyclist makes about 400 watts, does he not?
> > What can be done with 400W applied to
> > say 70kg up steep hills is evident in Tour De France.
> >
> > 99.9999% of cyclists cannot do what the TDF guys do, and so have to make
> > do with 200W of leg power,
> > unless they are old and feeble, when 50W might be all they can make.
> >
> > But anyway, 200W applied to 160Kg, rider, bike plus batteries, and rider
> > not pedling
> > isn't going to whiz you up a steep climb very fast, but at least faster
> > than not getting up the hill at all.
> >
> > There are now plenty of electric powered "travelling aids" easily
> > available to anyome wanting to use one.
> > The people who use them have nearly all lost the use of their legs, so
> > hence.. ----electric wheel chairs----.
> > These smart modern contraptions have been around for awhile now, and it
> > allows the elderly and infirm
> > to go shopping and get out and about without someone pushing a
> > wheelchair. They cost thousands $$$
> > to buy, but afaik, can be leased, because an old person might only need
> > such a thing
> > for the last few years of life.
> > I am not aware of a version of such things designed for the young person
> > who likes to be
> > seen putting on the agony and style most of the time.
> >
> > The fact that electric vehicles don't already exist is due to a large
> > number of complex reasons
> > which could be summarized by saying "because of multiple failings of
> > human beings".
> > There was a very good film produced recently 'Who Killed The Electric
> > Car'.
> > This dealt with the story about the GM electric car produced for a short
> > while by General Motors.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car?
> > The GM car was only ever leased to users from GM, and only one survives
> > in a museum.
> >
> > The story about the GM car is, imho, a terribly sad one about car
> > makers, car parts makers,
> > politicians, and the US way of life. The US way of life depends on each
> > person needing
> > 1,000 watts (or more) of power to live 24/7, 365 days a year. Attemps
> > by anyone to reduce the energy
> > use will be seen as terribly upsetting to power producers, regardless of
> > who they are,
> > or what sort of power in involved. A macro conspiracy exists to keep
> > people hooked
> > up to the electricity grid and to require petrol supplies. Old
> > establishments all
> > say the same about change, "W'ell all be rooned".
> >
> > All forms of power supplied from coal burning or motive power from fuel
> > burning
> > will have to be reduced probably 70% within 20 years if we are to have
> > any hope of reducing greenhouse,
> > maybe more even, because world population looks set to at least double
> > in 50 years,
> > and all this lies within the life span of the kid next door.
> >
> > Anyway, since the demise of the wonderfully bright idea of th GM
> > electric car,
> > other makers have stepped in with things like the Toyota Prious, which
> > gives very much better fuel consumption figures than most other things,
> > but obviously not quite as good as an electic bicycle, which alas will
> > never be bought
> > in large numbers because people want to be enclosed while travelling.
> > Economics might force ppl onto electric bikes, but there are no such
> > forces right now.
> > Even if petrol prices tripled, i'd still own a car.
> >
> > The energy of 1,000 watts continuously for each person on the planet
> > 365/24/7 will has to come from somewhere.
> >
> > I just cannot see a future for our species without such power
> > capability.
> >
> > So "Planning for The End of the World As We Know It (conveniently, after
> > he> retires) AKA When the Oil Runs Out" means we must plan
> >
> > for the world as we DON'T know it.
> >
> > Solar power looks the most acceptable. There are some sobering figures
> > about solar collector area per person
> > to make that 1,000 watts per hr all day every day and including being
> > able to charge up
> > batteries for use at night when the sun don't shine, or when the weather
> > is cloudy.
> >
> > Probably, I might need an acre to be covered with solar panels just for
> > my little frugal use of power.
> > Such a quantity of panels might cost more than a house, and need to be
> > replaced each 20 years,
> > and then there is plant maintenance.
> >
> > There are 330,000 ppl in my town, and where do they each find a spare
> > $200,000 and 330,000 acres of land to
> > erect solar power instalations?
> >
> > Nobody prominent is at all asking the hard questions about alternative
> > power and about alternative transport.
> > "Alternative" is a word not used much by politicians because it means
> > "unacceptable"
> > and is only mainly used about one's political enemies.
> > Alternative = Shite.
> >
> > They all know they would be roundly condemned by everyone because of the
> > bad news, which
> > of course is the horrendous cost of genuine alternatives.
> >
> > John Howard wants to make Australia generate its energy by nuclear
> > power, like all those other countries,
> > and no doubt a large amount of shite will hit the fan about the issue
> > from the greens,
> > and the NIMBY mob. Personally, I don't like nuclear power, and don't
> > like the probable fact John Howard
> > has basically been told by Big Brother US ally to "go nuclear, youse
> > need the bombs" for your security.
> >
> > But I don't see too many viable alternatives likely to arrive soon.
> >
> > I am technically a complete nobody. My life will end about the time the
> > 8 yr old kid next door becomes quite alarmed
> > about having 100 summer days over 35C, and Australia being in drought
> > most of the time and forced to reduce
> > almost all of its food exports, and the Murray Darling bone dry, and an
> > outside unstable world
> > with continual wars over land and food amd water due to climate change.
> > There is NOW a war over oil in Iraq.
> >
> > Perhaps the way forward with the ""putative vehicle the Asthmatic
> > Hair-Dryer""
> > is to mount a small but efficient petrol or diesel engine of perhaps
> > 400watt capacity on the "cycle",
> > and have it generate power to store in the batteries which can only be
> > released
> > at the legal limited rate of 200W to the drive wheel/s
> >
> > There does not appear to ne any law against having a large sized
> > generator carried by the 200W limited vehicle.
> >
> > The principle of the hybrid should be just as viable with an "untralite"
> > vehicle such as a bicycle/tricycle
> > as it is in any electric car designed for high speeds with safety.
> >
> > The kid next door is yet to wake up to all this stuff about life being
> > complex, and there being no
> > easy simple solutions, but no doubt ppl in future will be forced to
> > think about it more.
> > Once you have to build a generator and store the energy, its depressing
> > to
> > see just what inefficiancies and losses are involved. Life wasn't meant
> > to be simple.
> >
> > Meanwhile, my sleep has been disturbed at times by ppl in the suburb
> > using strap ons,
> > ie, petrol power two stroke motors with a jockey wheel thet presses
> > against a front or rear
> > bicycle tyre, after the strap on is strapped to the ordinary push bike.
> > My main grouch is that
> > such things deafen all those around; the problem of noise pollution has
> > not been addressed.
> >
> > But if its possible to get 100HP from a 1,000cc engine, 5cc can give 0.5
> > HP, or 375 watts,
> > and of course about 2,000 MPG, and if diesel, could easily be run using
> > canola oil.
> >
> > If 12 billion people used 5cc engines and 2 tablespoon fulls of
> > vegetable oil each day to get around,
> > we might solve part of a problem. Only part. Certainly not the other
> > part, the bigger part,
> > and the hard part, eg, it takes more than a spoonful of oil to heat the
> > water for a bath.
> >
> > But people just ain't ever going to settle for glorified bicycles, and
> > many
> > will remain addicted to agony and style, even if it kills them.
> >
> > Patrick Turner.

>
> I read all of that, and it was worth it, thanks Patrick.
>
> Donga


I thought you'd never forgive me about what I said about birdies....

Patrick Turner.
 
ray wrote:
>
> Donga wrote:
> > On Sep 13, 12:52 pm, Patrick Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> ray wrote:
> >> <snip for brevity>
> >> But people just ain't ever going to settle for glorified bicycles, and
> >> many
> >> will remain addicted to agony and style, even if it kills them.
> >>
> >> Patrick Turner.

> >
> > I read all of that, and it was worth it, thanks Patrick.
> >
> > Donga
> >

> Love this, guys. Sounds like he needs about a kilowatt, and however many
> batteries it takes to provide that for any reasonable length of time.
> The weight estimates have obviously gone WAY up, sounds like about at
> least 200 kg, equivalent to a small motorcycle, and a lot of moolah.



I said most ppl need a kw but thats all the time they live for all their
power needs unless they have invested heavily in solar roof panels et
all.
Hardly anyone has, or ever will.

For one person transport, you may only need 200 watts.

And you don't need 200 watts to make good speed on the flat, or down
hill.
So what is needed is power for getting up hills. So I said a small light
weight 400watt diesel or petrol
motor runs continuously at its most efficient pace all the time to
constantly charge batteries.
an electric motor powers the wheels from the batteries, and while
rolling down hill
and going along the flat the hydrocarbon engine works furiously to
charge the battery
to replace what's used on hills. Would it work? I have not a clue,
but hybrid engined vehicles are the most efficient apart from charging
off solar.

There is nothing unlawful about having a large generator to charge
batteries from which
a maximum of only 200 watts of motive power is produced.

>
> I should obviously submit this one to Mythbusters -
>
> How far and how fast can you propel about a quarter ton up a steep slope
> using the motor out of a blender at low voltage?


250Kg?
But why use a blender motor?
If you want electro mechanical efficiency, follow what kind of motors
used by the
the winners of the solar car races across Australia.
Those guys had to find the best voltage, best magnets, and maybe best
gearing, and so on so
wastage was mimimal.
They often zoomed along at 80kph.....

I forget all of Newton's Laws of motion, but horse power
for lifting a certain weight a certain height in a certain time is all
easily worked out on a simple formula. I am sure a search on the web
will give you this schoolboy stuff.
Don't forget to add in rolling resistance.

Horsepower can easily be converted to watts.


>
> I suspect `not much' in both cases. But that's all those shiteheads at
> VicRoads (and other state road authorities) will give you. So I'm sure
> my brother will be very pleased to know he's doomed in all respects from
> the start.
> Cheers,
> Ray


If the authorities allowed 400 watts, there would be real speed problems
with ppl riding electric bikes and pedling to produce a total of 1
horsepower.
Size of vehicles with 400 watts would suddenly be larger, another
bother.
But be my guest to talk to them about it. I doubt your chances of
changing their minds.
But I doubt they'll change a law which would lessen revenue, and
increase policing costs,
both of which are funded by the taxpayer.

Don't let your brother accept doom before examines many alternatives.

Patrick Turner.
 
Donga wrote:
>
> On Sep 13, 5:48 pm, Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Donga wrote:
> > > I read all of that, and it was worth it, thanks Patrick.

> >
> > Blink! Wadda are you? His straight man or something?
> >
> > Are you seriously trying to tell us that at no stage the woop-woop
> > ******** alert didn't sound?
> >
> > pt is firmly of the school that if you can not dazzle them with
> > brilliance, then baffle them with ********, Copious amounts in pt's
> > case. Surely you have twigged to this?
> >
> > The kindest thing that can be said is that some of his knowledge is way
> > out of date. About as appropriate as "people who ride in motor cars will
> > be asphixiated if they travel above 10mph".
> >
> > Hint 1, lots of people have solar arrays on their urban roof and do not
> > pay for mains electricity.
> >
> > Hint 2, even if you are a raving nutcase yourself and irrespective of
> > what you think of them, whenever someone starts rabbitting on about
> > "greenies" you are definitely entering lala land and about to be dumped
> > under a pile of ****.

>
> What's wrong with enjoying a lot of quite well-written whimsy? It's an
> improvement on your ranting Terry.


Terry is my natural uneducated enemy. Hopefully not forever though.

Not one thing he's said above prooves I am wrong, he just blathers on.

It is a fact of life that most folks will always have find a necessary
24KWH of power each day
to sustain life in an acceptable manner.
Its 8,760KWH pa, per head, worth about $1,050 at 12c/KWH. Some use less,
some use more.
My numbers are guestimated, and not accurate, but even if I was out by
500% either way,
the cost of power in Oz is a substantial one.
If 8 million have an income av = 40,000 per annum, income nationally =
320 billion pa.

For all Australia, power cost about 22 billion dollars pa.

To establish an alternative power industry and power all vehicles with
electricity
after closing down and dismantling all the coal burners, and do it
without turning nuclear
and adding this cost to the above yearly bill will make power cost
rather a lot more than an average
$1050 per year

Far more sunshine power than this 24KWH falls on the nation, but getting
it where its wanted
and storing it for night use is a major hurdle for the "alternative
industry."

If Terry has some viable alternative, and can argue its worth in similar
simple to understand terms
which I have just outlined, I am sure we'd all like to hear about it.

So would the major political parties and heads of industry.
perhaps Terry knows something they don't.

So c'mom Terry, put up or shut up.

We could then decide if its worth voting for.

Then to save the world, we need to give all such secrets away free to
anyone wanting to use the techniques.

Patrick Turner
 
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:30:50 +1000, Terryc
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Theo Bekkers wrote:
>
>> He's not going that far Terry. A 24V Gopher, like my m-i-l has, has a range
>> of around 30 kms with just two batteries costing about $200 each, and
>> weighing a lot less than 35kg each. I'd guess less than 25 kg for the pair.

>
>It isn't the distant. It is the discharge rate of the batteries. The
>recommendation for deep discharge lead acid batteries is not to exceed a
>discharge rate of C/10. so a 130AmphHr can give 13Amps max, if you want
>optimal life from the battery.
>
>AFAIKI, many of these gophers are actually consuming batteries, aka they
>need replacing regularly.
>
>As I said, if he had the money, he could buy Nicad, NiMh or Lion


Lithuim Polymers would be the choice for the most grunt.

Come along way in the last 3 years.
Popular in our RC helicopters these days and effectively replaced
Nitro Engines.

But fire hazard, very very very easy to burn down your house, car,
garage or anything near one when it burns.

Looks like Chernobyl and a weird green flame.
 
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:39:47 GMT, RV <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:30:50 +1000, Terryc
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Theo Bekkers wrote:
>>
>>> He's not going that far Terry. A 24V Gopher, like my m-i-l has, has a range
>>> of around 30 kms with just two batteries costing about $200 each, and
>>> weighing a lot less than 35kg each. I'd guess less than 25 kg for the pair.

>>
>>It isn't the distant. It is the discharge rate of the batteries. The
>>recommendation for deep discharge lead acid batteries is not to exceed a
>>discharge rate of C/10. so a 130AmphHr can give 13Amps max, if you want
>>optimal life from the battery.
>>
>>AFAIKI, many of these gophers are actually consuming batteries, aka they
>>need replacing regularly.
>>
>>As I said, if he had the money, he could buy Nicad, NiMh or Lion

>
>Lithuim Polymers would be the choice for the most grunt.
>


Example

Lithium Polymer 5000-8000mAh

mAh Volt Size (mm) gram Const Burst
5000 22.2V 54x44x166 799 125A 250A

$438

http://www.modelflight.com.au/lithium_ion_polymer_8000.htm
 
Terryc wrote:
> It isn't so much the bearing that I see as the problem, but the fact
> that the force on one side is transmitted by a 40mm square tube and on
> the other side by 1/2" (?) solid rod of not so wonderful steel.
>
> This is why i liked the 1" diameter of the head stem.


Fair call. It certainly won't be the only weak point in my prototype
- the 32-spoke 20" wheels and stamped-steel caliper brakes will be
pretty flimsy too! ;-)

> >>If you hand is steady enough,there are 1.5(?)mm rods about. $56 for a
> >>box which is expensive compared to the yumcha brands. Also requires your
> >>welder to have good low current control (mine doesn't).

>
> > I've been looking for those, but the best I've been able to find is
> > 2mm - where have you found them?

>
> I found them at Gas Weld, which is a rear supplier of welding gear, as
> opposed to the junk tool shops that sell a bit of welding stuff
> occassionally. I think peeps here must be going gasless migs (junk in my
> books), so they don't carry much stick stock now, compared to a few
> years ago.


I've been looking at the CIG and BOC websites without success.
Hardware stores only seem to stock 2.5mm-3.5mm generic rods.

> Hmm, do the string maths in the address (remove "spam-spam") and send me
> your snail. I'll check that the size isn't wrong and post some for you
> to try out your welder. Then you'll know if it is worthwhile getting them.


Splendid. I'm [email protected] (and it's not like my spam load
is going to get any worse asa result of my saying so).


BTH
 
Terryc wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote:
>
>> Well yes. We bought the gopher for m-i-l in 1995 and the batteries
>> were replaced two years ago. I thought that was pretty good, ten
>> years and it gets used almost daily.


> Riding pattern?
> Would love some more details when you have time.


Don't really know other than she goes to the shops about three times a week,
a return trip of only 3 kms but with a 50 metre elevation. Also goes to
visit her daughter regularly, which is about 5 kms return with twice that
elevation. When she first got it she was living in Rockingham and did 15 km
return trips for the shopping. The thing has an alleged range of 30 kms.

Theo
 
Terryc wrote:
> >>If you hand is steady enough,there are 1.5(?)mm rods about. $56 for a
> >>box which is expensive compared to the yumcha brands. Also requires your
> >>welder to have good low current control (mine doesn't).

>
> > I've been looking for those, but the best I've been able to find is
> > 2mm - where have you found them?

>
> I found them at Gas Weld, which is a rear supplier of welding gear, as
> opposed to the junk tool shops that sell a bit of welding stuff
> occassionally. I think peeps here must be going gasless migs (junk in my
> books), so they don't carry much stick stock now, compared to a few
> years ago.


These ones?

https://ishop.gasweld.com.au/ishop/stock/item/580387

There's a Gasweld store nearish to me (Fyshwick ACT) so I'll have a
look this weekend.


BTH
 
Terryc wrote:

> It isn't so much the bearing that I see as the problem, but the fact
> that the force on one side is transmitted by a 40mm square tube and on
> the other side by 1/2" (?) solid rod of not so wonderful steel.


Skip that. I braved the spider web jungle that is the accumlated bicycle
bits shed and found one. There is 30mm diameter of meat (metal) you can
weld to a stiff plate.

You will probably need some strips of plate(metal) to pack and get max
area. Unless you are into oxy gouging and burn a bit of bar (Dang, knew
I should have done that subject).

I also noticed that all the bearing surfaces are replaceable, so it is
better than I was thinking. Glad I kept a few.


> Bing;the rubber blocks they put into the hitch of off road trailers.
> They might be better in that they'd do the keep it up job,but not
> transmit the full shock. Sort of a sloppy bearing with resistance.
> Something for the list. Depends on size of bolts.


My late night thinking is that perhaps this design doesn't really need a
stiff turning head/headstemthat transmits the full forces from basket to
frame and back again, but something that would serve as a sloppy
headstem. Just another fiddle exercise. I will give me an excuse to rev
up the local 4WD/Offroad shop by riding my biccle with trailer and
asking about it in a loud voice "yer I wanna build a dutch cargo bike".
ahh Minnow.

>


> I'm fairly sure that is the right size as I'm out of 2mm as I can only
> get them in small packs atm and I have almost a new boxen of these.


Definitely sure. They are ESAB brand (yellow box) 1.6mm x 300mm, 318pcs
in 2,0kg packet that cost $61.60c ($56+GST).

Rating is E6013 and the little pictures (blink) say good for flat,
fillet, horizontal, verical up, vertical down and overhead (wear your
leather cape and hood batman).

So snail direct and I'll post you a few to try out and check that your
welder gets down that low without wasting money.

Unfortunately mine of 20 years doesn't and you soon have this long
orange rod in front of you just sticking to everything. sigh.
 
RV wrote:

> Lithuim Polymers would be the choice for the most grunt.


cost (AUS$)? life (number of cycles?) and charge/discharge rates?

I looked at a few and added up the bill and went "ERK" 50% of Lead acid
weight is dead weight as they only be max 50% discharged. but the others
were not that great.
 
RV wrote:

> Lithium Polymer 5000-8000mAh
>
> mAh Volt Size (mm) gram Const Burst
> 5000 22.2V 54x44x166 799 125A 250A
>
> $438
>
> http://www.modelflight.com.au/lithium_ion_polymer_8000.htm


Thank you sire. Very helpful.
Sigh, it would only cost me $4,380 for my needs, but it would only weigh
8kg. Hmm, roll on the lottery win.


Practically, I think I'll keep looking for something with a slower
discharge rate and hopefully matchng price reduction.

As you said, this stuff is improving each year. so procrastination might
have some rewards.
 

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