am i liable?

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Andrew G, May 18, 2003.

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  1. Andrew G

    Andrew G Guest

    A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I was
    most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the damages to
    the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.

    i am worried though.

    even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then turning in front of me, I did
    hit the car and dent it with my fist.

    I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    road rules.
     
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  2. In aus.bicycle on Sun, 18 May 2003 19:00:33 +0800 andrew G <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    >road rules.
    >

    That he did something illegal doesn't mean you are allowed to.

    You deliberately damaged the car.

    What to do?

    Well, your chances of pleading "I didn't know it would dent" are probably minimal.

    You might try you were trying to save yourself, you were panicked when he got so close and you
    flailed out.

    If you tell them it was deliberate, you are hosed.

    Zebee
     
  3. in article [email protected], andrew G wrote:

    > He said he would go to the police.

    I'm no lawyer, but if it were me I'd call his bluff. Wish him good luck as he tries to explain to
    the police that he was turning in front of you so close that you could bang his car. Tell him you're
    considering making a complaint too, and offer to accompany him to the police station.

    Shane
     
  4. Alan Erskine

    Alan Erskine Guest

    "andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    > them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    > was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    > damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    >
    > i am worried though.
    >
    > even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then
    turning
    > in front of me, I did hit the car and dent it with my fist.
    >
    > I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    > road rules.
    >
    >
    >

    From your post, it is quite apparent that you were very angry at the time as your safety was
    put at risk.

    Also, if the driver went to the police, would be admitting that they did the wrong thing. Trade
    their demerit points with a guarantee that they won't take action against you.

    Personally, I strongly doubt they will go to the police. If they were going to do that, they
    wouldn't have come to you. Suggest blackmail, perhaps?
    --
    Alan Erskine alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au GWB the Ghengis Khan of the 21st Century
     
  5. Colnagodream

    Colnagodream Guest

    Try him for size ...generally as i have found out the person is very reluctant to go to the
    police.......Does he have any witnesses ....mmm then its his word against yours

    "You get 100% of what you don't ask for"

    "andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    > them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    > was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    > damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    >
    > i am worried though.
    >
    > even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then
    turning
    > in front of me, I did hit the car and dent it with my fist.
    >
    > I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    > road rules.
     
  6. Jeremy Lunn

    Jeremy Lunn Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, andrew G wrote:
    > A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed
    > hitting them.

    There is a provision in the law that says cyclists aren't allowed to overtake left turning vehicles.
    You'd have to make it clear that you weren't doing that. If they overtook you and starting turning
    left at the same time, then I think they would most certainly be in the wrong.

    As for causing deliberate damage to their vehicle, you'd be in the wrong there. Even if they did
    take it to the Police, it'd be interesting to see how the handle it.

    I had an incident where I was illegally riding (that's questionable since it was before the
    standardised national laws came into effect and I was probably under the age of 12) on the footpath
    and hit a car that was driving out of a car park (obscured by bushes) and the Police advised them
    that they had no chance in the way of hell of convincing a magistrate that I should pay for damages
    to his vehicle, mind you I was of a young age and he had failed to sound his warning device, while
    driving out of a driveway at top speed. That and he restrained me unlawfully until I gave him a
    telephone number (his wife certainly didn't look too impressed), for that I think I did threaten to
    press charges as well (though as it turned out he was a barrister so it would have been too much of
    a hassle, though no doubt he knew that if he tried to have me pay for damange to his vehicle then he
    probably would be charged himself).

    --
    Jeremy Lunn Melbourne, Australia Homepage: http://www.austux.net/ http://www.jabber.org/ - the next
    generation of Instant Messaging.
     
  7. "andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    > them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    > was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    > damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.

    A few questions.

    How did he find you? Exchanged names and addresses or a neighbour?

    Does he have any independent witnesses?

    If he is a neighbour it may pay you to sort out the costs amicably and avoid future aggro. If he's
    not and he has no witnesses then he's pissing in the wind, hoping you'll be shaken enough by it to
    pay up. I don't like people who make idle threats, if he really had a claim he'd have had the police
    on your doorstep then use the charge to get his insurance claim processed against you.

    Stand fast. He f#%ked up, you f#%ked up, call it even. Get him to run a written apology to you, for
    his infringement of the road rules, in the Herald Sun. That ought to be worth the few hundred bucks
    to fix his dent.

    Cheers Peter
     
  8. andrew G wrote:

    >A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    >them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    >was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    >damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    >
    >i am worried though.
    >
    >even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then turning in front of me, I did
    >hit the car and dent it with my fist.
    >
    >I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    >road rules.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Let him go to the police, as long as you don't lie to them they won't give a shit (that's if they
    even contact you). Your main worry would be a civil action in the local court, but I don't think it
    will come to that.

    It's always tempting to bash the cars, but it can be a very expensive habit. If you must lower
    yourself to the car drivers level, then snap off their aerial. Nowhere near as expensive as
    panel-beating but just as much short-term gratification. I once tried to spit on a taxi driver
    who tried to run me down but I ended up getting the old lady in the back seat. Felt pretty bad
    about that one.

    - LB
     
  9. Mark B

    Mark B Guest

    Pay up, you did the wrong thing. You should never retaliate like that.
     
  10. Ray Peace

    Ray Peace Guest

    Greetings, Unfortunately, this turkey is legal. It is apparently now in the road regs that you can
    overtake a cyclist to make a left turn rather than wait behind them as I would tend to do. Pretty
    stupid, huh ? Unless you have one of the rear vision mirrors I use, how do you know a car coming up
    behind you is going to make a turn ? Suggest you initiate Plan Five and set off the charges under
    101 Cotham Rd Kew, because this is another example of how the Great God Car rules all, and when we
    exchange our cars for bikes we automatically become second class citizens. Cheers, Ray.

    Peter Signorini wrote:

    >"andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    >>them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    >>was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    >>damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    >>
    >
    >A few questions.
    >
    >How did he find you? Exchanged names and addresses or a neighbour?
    >
    >Does he have any independent witnesses?
    >
    >If he is a neighbour it may pay you to sort out the costs amicably and avoid future aggro. If he's
    >not and he has no witnesses then he's pissing in the wind, hoping you'll be shaken enough by it to
    >pay up. I don't like people who make idle threats, if he really had a claim he'd have had the
    >police on your doorstep then use the charge to get his insurance claim processed against you.
    >
    >Stand fast. He f#%ked up, you f#%ked up, call it even. Get him to run a written apology to you, for
    >his infringement of the road rules, in the Herald Sun. That ought to be worth the few hundred bucks
    >to fix his dent.
    >
    >Cheers Peter
     
  11. Jock

    Jock Guest

    Self Defence reaction. If he wants try it on, let him. The cops would probably tell him he has no
    recourse for this action. The alternative, (had she/he hit you), would have been neg. driving + the
    injury etc. She/he got off lightly. Call it an education for them and you. If I was remorseful and
    paid for all the mirrors & weathershields laying along Military Rd, York St, Longueville Rd. and
    Clarence St, I would not have about as much as a dozen mirrors and a weathershield cost. I crunched
    a bloke's leg once that opened his door - it was in the rain and the door had nearly taken me out.
    Funny expression on his face after said leg crunch (door slammed shut on the leg with a foot on the
    road), when I said to watch what he was doing with his f***ing door in future. He couldn't exactly
    run after me :) Pain, dismay... good stuff. Jock

    "andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    > them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    > was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    > damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    >
    > i am worried though.
    >
    > even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then
    turning
    > in front of me, I did hit the car and dent it with my fist.
    >
    > I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    > road rules.
     
  12. Andrew G

    Andrew G Guest

    "Peter Signorini" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    :
    :
    : A few questions.
    :
    : How did he find you? Exchanged names and addresses or a neighbour?
    It's a small town
    :
    : Does he have any independent witnesses?
    and so do i

    actually it was his wifes car and he was not driving. nor was he in it neither did the car or me
    stop at the time. perhaps he should sue the makers for making flimsy vehicles, my fist was not
    even bruised.

    :
    : If he is a neighbour it may pay you to sort out the costs amicably and
    avoid
    : future aggro. If he's not and he has no witnesses then he's pissing in the wind, hoping you'll be
    : shaken enough by it to pay up. I don't like people who make idle threats, if he really had a claim
    : he'd have had the police
    on
    : your doorstep then use the charge to get his insurance claim processed against you.
    :
    : Stand fast. He f#%ked up, you f#%ked up, call it even. Get him to run a written apology to you,
    : for his infringement of the road rules, in the Herald Sun. That ought to be worth the few hundred
    : bucks to fix his dent.
    :
    : Cheers Peter
    :
    :
     
  13. Andrew G

    Andrew G Guest

    this was a spor of the moment action, just a protest bang as she went past! i dont ever advocate
    deliberate damage.

    i thought at the time that it was a good 'fine' for the infringement. "Luther Blissett"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    : andrew G wrote:
    :
    : >A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed
    : >hitting them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap
    : >crap) I was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for
    : >the damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    : >
    : >i am worried though.
    : >
    : >even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then
    turning
    : >in front of me, I did hit the car and dent it with my fist.
    : >
    : >I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    : >road rules.
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : Let him go to the police, as long as you don't lie to them they won't give a shit (that's if they
    : even contact you). Your main worry would be a civil action in the local court, but I don't think
    : it will come to that.
    :
    : It's always tempting to bash the cars, but it can be a very expensive habit. If you must lower
    : yourself to the car drivers level, then snap off their aerial. Nowhere near as expensive as
    : panel-beating but just as much short-term gratification. I once tried to spit on a taxi driver who
    : tried to run me down but I ended up getting the old lady in the back seat. Felt pretty bad about
    : that one.
    :
    : - LB
    :
     
  14. Andrew G

    Andrew G Guest

    "Mark B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    : Pay up, you did the wrong thing. You should never retaliate like that.

    if i wanted to do damage i would have carried a crowbar.
     
  15. Agamlen

    Agamlen Guest

    And opening a door into traffic is an offense.

    Jock wrote:
    > Self Defence reaction. If he wants try it on, let him. The cops would probably tell him he has no
    > recourse for this action. The alternative, (had she/he hit you), would have been neg. driving +
    > the injury etc. She/he got off lightly. Call it an education for them and you. If I was remorseful
    > and paid for all the mirrors & weathershields laying along Military Rd, York St, Longueville Rd.
    > and Clarence St, I would not have about as much as a dozen mirrors and a weathershield cost. I
    > crunched a bloke's leg once that opened his door - it was in the rain and the door had nearly
    > taken me out. Funny expression on his face after said leg crunch (door slammed shut on the leg
    > with a foot on the road), when I said to watch what he was doing with his f***ing door in future.
    > He couldn't exactly run after me :) Pain, dismay... good stuff. Jock
    >
    > "andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    >>them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    >>was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    >>damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    >>
    >>i am worried though.
    >>
    >>even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then
    >
    > turning
    >
    >>in front of me, I did hit the car and dent it with my fist.
    >>
    >>I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    >>road rules.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
     
  16. Trevor S

    Trevor S Guest

    "andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected] 119557.news.dfncis.de:

    >
    > "Mark B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >: Pay up, you did the wrong thing. You should never retaliate like that.
    >

    > if i wanted to do damage i would have carried a crowbar.

    That's a bit rough :) You ASKED for advice, just because you do not like the advice give is no
    reason to "bash the side of his Mark B's car in"

    Trevor S
     
  17. Coss.

    Coss. Guest

    Next explain how in an attempt to avoid the collision your hand made contact with said vehicle.
    Accidental contact due to the vehicle cutting you off. Hopefully there won't be another time.
    Stay upright.

    Coss. andrew G <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed hitting
    > them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap crap) I
    > was most surprised. the next day, the husband of the driver came and asked me to pay for the
    > damages to the car. I refused. He said he would go to the police.
    >
    > i am worried though.
    >
    > even though the driver did try to run me down by overtaking and then
    turning
    > in front of me, I did hit the car and dent it with my fist.
    >
    > I did not intend to dent or damage the car, only to protest this flagrant and dangerous breach of
    > road rules.
     
  18. "andrew G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > this was a spor of the moment action, just a protest bang as she went
    past!
    > i dont ever advocate deliberate damage.

    Next time, if you can think of it, try the flat of your hand on the roof, bonnet or boot. Much less
    likely to cause any damage but a resounding boom through the driver's car. Did it once to a cretin
    who had cut me off in the city, on the roof right over his head, and boy did he jump in his seat.

    Cheers Peter
     
  19. Allen

    Allen Guest

    The answer probably depends to some extent on which state you are in.

    If you are in Queensland (I am not) I have a vague recollection that the defence of "provocation" in
    the Criminal Code is available in as a defence in both civil and criminal actions.

    Wherever you are, it is the other side that has to prove its case - ie, prove that you either
    negilgently or deliberately damaged the door. Even if the driver was driving in accordance with the
    letter of a particular road rule in the relevant state, it does not necessarily mean that the driver
    is not guilty of "contributory negligence" that reduces his/her recovery.

    The best advice is - admit nothing, if the driver/owner takes it further, get advice from a local
    solicitor. You will probably find (if you ask nicely) that you will get a half hour of free advice.

    Allen
     
  20. Allen

    Allen Guest

    The answer probably depends to some extent on which state you are in.

    If you are in Queensland (I am not) I have a vague recollection that the defence of "provocation" in
    the Criminal Code is available in as a defence in both civil and criminal actions.

    Wherever you are, it is the other side that has to prove its case - ie, prove that you either
    negilgently or deliberately damaged the door. Even if the driver was driving in accordance with the
    letter of a particular road rule in the relevant state, it does not necessarily mean that the driver
    is not guilty of "contributory negligence" that reduces his/her recovery.

    The best advice is - admit nothing, if the driver/owner takes it further, get advice from a local
    solicitor. You will probably find (if you ask nicely) that you will get a half hour of free advice.

    Allen
     
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