am i liable?



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"stu" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
: >thanks for that stu....... the car has been hit, on purpose??
: yeap on purpose

The car was banged to alert the driver or protest to the driver. My quotes below illustrate this
point. My purpose or intent was to protest or alert the driver. The damage was accidental and not
intentional (made with the purpose to damage)

as i have said, i dont believe in deliberate damage (and i dont ride in he city or around traffic
much if i can help it)
:
: >I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it went past. the car dented! (jap ****)
:
: >I did hit the car and dent it with my fist.
:
: >I did not intend to dent or damage the car
:
: >perhaps he should sue the makers for making flimsy vehicles, my fist was not even bruised.
:
: >this was a spor of the moment action, just a protest bang as she went
past!
: >i dont ever advocate deliberate damage.
:
:
:
 
A word of warning, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

John L.

On 20 May 2003 15:28:37 +1200, "hop" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"David Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>cyclist must give way to traffic turning left.
>>
>A cyclist must give way to any vehicle turning across it's path. That is the law of survival,
>nothing at all to do with being in the right, just not being in the hospital. Any way when has the
>law had any regard for a mere cyclist. I thought by law they were supposed to be expendable. By the
>way my mate has a great big clip on his side strap on the shoes he uses when riding on the road and
>it is amazing how many cars get "racing stripes" down the side of their cars. All of whom pass him
>quite legally of course. Hop
 
"RMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> This is from: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/randl/part_11.pdf
> 141. No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle
>
> (2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of
a
> vehicle
>
> that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal.
>
> Penalty: 3 penalty units.

You have it **** about. Read the original post. He banged the side of the car as it went past him
ie. the car was overtaking the cyclist and turning left. Highly illegal as far as I understand the
road rules.
>
> I cannot find any mention of what happens if you are riding in a bike
lane,
> a car pulls up just in front of you and indicates to turn left. Are we to stop for them or are we
> to give way ? No bike lane, and I would interpret Rule 141 (2) as the cyclist must give way.

Bulls#*t. Bike lane or not, no vehicle can legally change direction to obstruct the passage of
another vehicle travelling in a parallel lane.

Cheers Peter
 
>The car was banged to alert the driver or protest to the driver.
yes
>My quotes below illustrate this point.
yes My purpose or intent was to protest or alert the driver. yes
>The damage was accidental and not intentional (made with the purpose to damage)
yes, but you still caused the damage

>i had to brake hard and missed hitting them. I banged on the side of the car with my fist as it
>went past.
maybe l am reading this wrong, is the dent on the right or the left of the car? on the left you
maybe able to run a good story on the right then you are liable if someone cut you off while you
were diving a car and you avoided running into then, would you feel you could then run into the
side of them?
 
Twisties wrote:
>
> heck! if i were you (keeping in mind im young and stupud) would follow the lady home, let down her
> tyres and if possible open all the doors in the car so it looks like youve been hussling round.

That's just being silly Twisties. Showing your age there. Still, nobody escapes their youth without
some regrets.

> my man you didnt mean to, dont worry, if i were you i would be hopping they went to court so that
> when they loose the case they would never forget to respect cyclists.

Never hope this sort of thing goes to court, even if the cyclist is found to be in the right they
might have to pay some costs.

> where i live its too dangerous to ride in the bloody bike lanes! i have had so many cars beep at
> me and once a guy slowed up and threw an egg at me (not because i was in the bike lane) but
> unforunantly the little sissy threw like a chicken(wonder where the egg came from) and it bounced
> off my clothes.

The egg throwers are just arseholes, they are not targeting you because you are a cyclist, they
throw them at anything. Ask any bouncer who has had to stand outside a pub on a main road (like
Parramatta Rd). Dodging eggs is part of the job.

- LB
 
> Luther Blissett? Of Watford fame?

I am one of many, but not the one you seek.

- LB
 
maybe l am reading this wrong, is the dent on the right or the left of the
: car? on the left you maybe able to run a good story on the right then you are liable if someone
: cut you off while you were diving a car and you avoided running into then, would you feel you
: could then run into the side of them?
:
:
:
i can run a good story
 
"John L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: A word of warning, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.
:
: John L.
:
Thanks Guys (&) for all the advice + the local police have not got back to me and i am
waiting............. ....................................... for the lawyer. if andy.
 
Peter Signorini <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "David Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:eek:[email protected]...
> > cyclist must give way to traffic turning left.
>
> Where did this blather come from? Please quote the exact road rule where this applies. (Note: we
> are talking about two vehicles both moving in the same direction along a road, see below)
>
> ------->----->X ------>-------/
>
> Cheers Peter

According to my solicitor the bike must give way to the car, regardless of bike lane etc. But a car
can only enter a bike lane 50m prior to turning. I never said it was fair, write your congressman.
 
"David Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Peter Signorini <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> > Where did this blather come from? Please quote the exact road rule where this applies. (Note: we
> > are talking about two vehicles both moving in the same
direction
> > along a road, see below)
> >
> > ------->----->X ------>-------/
>
> According to my solicitor the bike must give way to the car, regardless of bike lane etc. But a
> car can only enter a bike lane 50m prior to turning.
I
> never said it was fair, write your congressman.
>
Uhuh! Sounds like you're describing some crazy US rule. Notice the au. We are talking about
Australian cycling rules. No congressmen in Australia, only MPs.

If you are with bigpond and in Aus, I repeat, quote the exact road rule please.

Cheers Peter
 
From David's header information it appears he a wannabe Yank.

John L.

On Thu, 22 May 2003 00:01:09 +1000, "Peter Signorini" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Uhuh! Sounds like you're describing some crazy US rule. Notice the au. We are talking about
>Australian cycling rules. No congressmen in Australia, only MPs.
>
>If you are with bigpond and in Aus, I repeat, quote the exact road rule please.
>
>Cheers Peter
>
>"David Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> never said it was fair, write your congressman.
 
andrew G wrote:
>
> A person in a car turned left in front of me the other day, i had to brake hard and missed
> hitting them.

Just my attempt at a summary of comments.

1) Don't every admit doing something in usenet, email, etc. It will eventually show up on a search
engine and if not used now, may be used in future.

2) A bicyclists never hits a car, but wide handlebars can often dent cars. Those old chromed brake
levers are bloody marvellous for scratching too when cars sideswipe you.

3) If any part of your body hits a car, it is because the car actually struck yourself or your
bicycle and as a result you made contact with the car, and it was because you were falling off
your bicycle or flailing madly in an attempt to regain balance.

4) Never admit to any accussation, by individuals or solicitors. Solicitors are just professional
(i.e. they do it for money) people who know how to write legal letters.

5) If there are no witnesses, then it is simply your word against your accusser. This is a favourite
excuse of NSW police for doing nothing, so it should work for you as well.

6) If the police in NSW will no take your complaint seriously, then a letter to the commissioner
results in a lot of paperwork and at least ensures that low level cops get some training from
high level cops.

--
Terry Collins {:)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au Wombat Outdoor
Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
 
You guys are so literal, I am in Aust!??!

Its a phase, like "don't harass me I don't write the laws just break them".

Sorry Peter I don't have access to the exact law regarding this but when I last took legal action
against a motorist my solicitor was insistent that if the car had done a left turn in front of me I
would infact be liable for all damages. I was amazed that this actually law and that a car can just
run you over, but hey since learning of this I have been extra careful when riding on busy roads
etc. I think it comes down to the fact that you may be sitting in the cars blind spot so the onus is
on the cyclist to be aware of cars turning.
 
"David Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry Peter I don't have access to the exact law regarding this but when I last took legal action
> against a motorist my solicitor was insistent that
if
> the car had done a left turn in front of me I would infact be liable for
all
> damages. I was amazed that this actually law and that a car can just run
you
> over,

Guess it comes down to who is overtaking who. It is illegal to overtake moving traffic on the LHS,
and until about 10 years ago was even illegal to pass stationary traffic on the LHS on a bike. So
yes, if you on your bike, are overtaking a car as it signals and turns left you could be held as
responsible (or the driver not liable).

However a common problem for cyclists is the driver who overtakes you on your bike, then once you're
out of view conveniently forgets all about you and turns left on top of you. If you have a witness
who can establish this was the situation then they'll throw the book at the driver. Any damage is
his/her responsibility.

> but hey since learning of this I have been extra careful when riding on busy roads etc. I think it
> comes down to the fact that you may be
sitting
> in the cars blind spot so the onus is on the cyclist to be aware of cars turning.

Always good advice in traffic, but may be different to liability.

Cheers Peter
 
>It is illegal to overtake moving traffic on the LHS
not anymore it isn't well not in Victoria anyway if you are talking about dual carriageway
 
"stu" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >It is illegal to overtake moving traffic on the LHS
> not anymore it isn't well not in Victoria anyway if you are talking about dual carriageway

OK. That is correct of course. Must make myself clearer.

In all of this I was referring to the common situation of what's referred to as lane splitting
-cyclists overtaking vehicles on the left in the same lane, or motorists overtaking cyclists
(usually on the right) without changing lanes. All can and does happen, and has a big impact upon LH
turn outcomes.

Cheers Peter
 
David Bailey <[email protected]> wrote:
: cyclist must give way to traffic turning left.

With all this debate going on there doesn't seem to be much reference to the road rules - which are
available for download from the RTA as a .pdf file.

I'd love someone to give the reference for the above 'rule'.

The only rule I've come across for cyclists giving way to vehicles on the left is as follows:

119 Giving way by the rider of a bicycle or animal to a vehicle leaving a roundabout

The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left marked lane of a roundabout with 2 or
more marked lanes, or the far left line of traffic in a roundabout with 2 or more lines of traffic,
must give way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.

Offence provision. Note 1 Bicycle and marked lane are defined in the dictionary, and vehicle is
defined in rule 15. Note 2 For this rule, give way means the rider must slow down and, if necessary,
stop to avoid a collision Ñ see the definition in the dictionary.

This would have to be the stupidest rule ever conceived an obviously invented by someone who had
never ridden a bike on a roundabaout.

Cheerz, Lynzz
 
you beleived one solicitor??

perhaps he knew the other guy. opinion?

or the real world of cases, costs, time delay and money.

"David Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: You guys are so literal, I am in Aust!??!
:
: Its a phase, like "don't harass me I don't write the laws just break
them".
:
: Sorry Peter I don't have access to the exact law regarding this but when I last took legal action
: against a motorist my solicitor was insistent that
if
: the car had done a left turn in front of me I would infact be liable for
all
: damages. I was amazed that this actually law and that a car can just run
you
: over, but hey since learning of this I have been extra careful when riding on busy roads etc. I
: think it comes down to the fact that you may be
sitting
: in the cars blind spot so the onus is on the cyclist to be aware of cars turning.
:
:
 
See Australian Road Rules section 141 part 2

141 No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the
vehicle unless:
(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked
lane to the left of the vehicle; or
(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U–turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a
right change of direction signal. Offence provision. Note Bicycle, centre of the road, marked
lane, multi-lane road, overtake, right change of direction signal and U–turn are defined in the
dictionary.
(2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning
left and is giving a left change of direction signal. Offence provision. Note Left change of
direction signal is defined in the dictionary.

(3) In this rule: turning right does not include making a hook turn. vehicle does not include a
tram, a bus travelling along tram tracks, or any vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning
vehicle sign. Note 1 Bus, tram and travelling along tram tracks are defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 Part 4, Division 3 deals with making hook turns. Note 3 Division 7 of this Part deals
with overtaking and passing trams (and buses travelling along tram tracks). Rule 143 deals with
overtaking or passing a vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign.

Zig

Lindsay Rowlands wrote:
> David Bailey <[email protected]> wrote:
> : cyclist must give way to traffic turning left.
>
> With all this debate going on there doesn't seem to be much reference to the road rules - which
> are available for download from the RTA as a .pdf file.
>
> I'd love someone to give the reference for the above 'rule'.
>
> The only rule I've come across for cyclists giving way to vehicles on the left is as follows:
>
> 119 Giving way by the rider of a bicycle or animal to a vehicle leaving a roundabout
>
> The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left marked lane of a roundabout with 2
> or more marked lanes, or the far left line of traffic in a roundabout with 2 or more lines of
> traffic, must give way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.
>
> Offence provision. Note 1 Bicycle and marked lane are defined in the dictionary, and vehicle is
> defined in rule 15. Note 2 For this rule, give way means the rider must slow down and, if
> necessary, stop to avoid a collision Ñ see the definition in the dictionary.
>
> This would have to be the stupidest rule ever conceived an obviously invented by someone who had
> never ridden a bike on a roundabaout.
>
> Cheerz, Lynzz
 
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