an alternative to speeding fines etc



B

Bleve

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> Bleve wrote:
> > Theo Bekkers wrote:

>
> >> Sorry, but I don't agree with you for pretty much the same reasons
> >> Zebee stated. We share four vehicles between us, should my wife have
> >> her licence suspended, which vehicle should be clamped/impounded?

>
> > She shouldn't have her licence suspended, because she should play by
> > the rules she signed up to when she got her licence.

>
> OK, so we should all play by the rules and then we don't need any silly
> laws.


Ideally, yes :)

But if we choose to break the rules (it's a choice, remember) ....
 

EuanB

New Member
Jan 11, 2005
877
0
0
Theo Bekkers said:
Bleve wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote:


>> Sorry, but I don't agree with you for pretty much the same reasons
>> Zebee stated. We share four vehicles between us, should my wife have
>> her licence suspended, which vehicle should be clamped/impounded?


> She shouldn't have her licence suspended, because she should play by
> the rules she signed up to when she got her licence.


OK, so we should all play by the rules and then we don't need any silly
laws.
Well duh! Seeing as people don't play by the rules we needs these very relevent and largely unenforced laws, but you knew that didn't you?

Fact: road trauma costs Australian 17 billion dollars a year.

Fact: people are dying on Australian roads.

Fact: many people do not understand the responsibilties they are under when getting behind the wheel of a car

Fact: license suspension on its own doesn't work. Although not the same thing it's estimated that a quarter of the cars on the road are not registered.

If what's currently being done isn't working, something new needs to be tried. Sure there'll be collateral damage,tough! I'll trade a bit of collatorral damage if it helps reduce the road toll.
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
EuanB wrote:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:


>> OK, so we should all play by the rules and then we don't need any
>> silly laws.


> Well duh! Seeing as people don't play by the rules we needs these
> very relevent and largely unenforced laws, but you knew that didn't
> you?


Is there a point to having unenforced laws? It just reenforces the belief
that they can be broken with impunity, and reduces the relevancy of all
laws.

> Fact: road trauma costs Australian 17 billion dollars a year.
>
> Fact: people are dying on Australian roads.


> If what's currently being done isn't working, something new needs to
> be tried. Sure there'll be collateral damage,tough! I'll trade a
> bit of collatorral damage if it helps reduce the road toll.


Is the problem as big as we make out. 1600 people die, does anybody really
care? 5000 people die from medical mistakes in hospitals, we don't get
excited over that. Doctors are not fined, but the AMA is promoting a ban on
motorcycles.

Theo
 
F

Friday

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> Friday wrote:
>
>
>>In Western Australia if you don't pay your fine they suspend your
>>license until you do.

>
>
> Doesn't stop them driving though.
>
> Theo
>
>



Funny thing was the Commisioner of Police got caught out and was sprung
driving without a license. He tried to fob it off by saying the
paperwork got "lost in the system" or something. If the Commisioner of
Police can't work it out then how does he expect mere citizens to work
it out?

Friday
 
B

Bleve

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> EuanB wrote:
> > Theo Bekkers Wrote:

>
> >> OK, so we should all play by the rules and then we don't need any
> >> silly laws.

>
> > Well duh! Seeing as people don't play by the rules we needs these
> > very relevent and largely unenforced laws, but you knew that didn't
> > you?

>
> Is there a point to having unenforced laws? It just reenforces the belief
> that they can be broken with impunity, and reduces the relevancy of all
> laws.


There is a point to making a "best effort".

> > If what's currently being done isn't working, something new needs to
> > be tried. Sure there'll be collateral damage,tough! I'll trade a
> > bit of collatorral damage if it helps reduce the road toll.

>
> Is the problem as big as we make out. 1600 people die, does anybody really
> care? 5000 people die from medical mistakes in hospitals, we don't get
> excited over that. Doctors are not fined, but the AMA is promoting a ban on
> motorcycles.


Something like 150,000 people have died on the roads in Australia since
1950. It's
a moderatly big problem, yes. The number of people significantly
affected by non-fatal road trauma is orders of magnitude greater than
that.

We get excited about two blokes in a hole in Tasmania, but what
*matters* is what affects a lot of people.
 
B

Bleve

Guest
Friday wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote:
> > Friday wrote:
> >
> >
> >>In Western Australia if you don't pay your fine they suspend your
> >>license until you do.

> >
> >
> > Doesn't stop them driving though.
> >
> > Theo
> >
> >

>
>
> Funny thing was the Commisioner of Police got caught out and was sprung
> driving without a license. He tried to fob it off by saying the
> paperwork got "lost in the system" or something. If the Commisioner of
> Police can't work it out then how does he expect mere citizens to work
> it out?


Think about this:

If the suspension includes the impounding/clamping of vehicles
registered to the licence holder, then it's kinda hard not to notice
that one's licence is suspended, *and* if the dept of clamping can't
find you, then they know there's a database problem and can presumably
fix it. It's selfhealing to a certain extent.
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Friday wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote:


> Funny thing was the Commisioner of Police got caught out and was
> sprung driving without a license. He tried to fob it off by saying the
> paperwork got "lost in the system" or something. If the Commisioner of
> Police can't work it out then how does he expect mere citizens to work
> it out?


It wasn't the commisioner of Police. It was the Minister, and he lost his
job. The same ******** who "forgot" to pay the Superannuation contributions
for the staff in his Chemist shop for a few years. ******* needs locking up.

Theo
 

EuanB

New Member
Jan 11, 2005
877
0
0
Theo Bekkers said:
EuanB wrote:

> Fact: road trauma costs Australian 17 billion dollars a year.
>
> Fact: people are dying on Australian roads.


> If what's currently being done isn't working, something new needs to
> be tried. Sure there'll be collateral damage,tough! I'll trade a
> bit of collatorral damage if it helps reduce the road toll.


Is the problem as big as we make out. 1600 people die, does anybody really
care?
On average 46 people in Victoria care. That's how many people's lives are affected by road trauma, so yes it's a quantifiable problem.
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-06-20, EuanB (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>> EuanB wrote:
>>
>> > Fact: road trauma costs Australian 17 billion dollars a year.
>> >
>> > Fact: people are dying on Australian roads.

>>
>> > If what's currently being done isn't working, something new needs to
>> > be tried. Sure there'll be collateral damage,tough! I'll trade a
>> > bit of collatorral damage if it helps reduce the road toll.

>>
>> Is the problem as big as we make out. 1600 people die, does anybody
>> really
>> care?

> On average 46 people in Victoria care. That's how many people's lives

^^ per day
> are affected by road trauma, so yes it's a quantifiable problem.


Just to clear up any confusion.

--
TimC
Examples of valid code in PL/1 (courtesy many people)
if if = then then then = else; else else = if;
do do = by by to to while while(until) until(end);
 
T

Trevor_S

Guest
"Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1150642185.046202.118760
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

<snip>


> Driving without licence - gaol for a couple of days.


I think this offence should automatically be attempted man slaughter and if
you do kill, manslaughter. If you have no license, society deems you are
not fit to drive, by then driving you are making a conscious decison.

<snip>

> No fines ... so no whining about revinue raising. Serious penalties
> for repeat offenders


Having serious penalities rarely works. Look at the death scentence, it
does'nt work as a deterent.

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein
 
B

Bleve

Guest
Trevor_S wrote:
> "Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1150642185.046202.118760
> @i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> <snip>
>
>
> > Driving without licence - gaol for a couple of days.

>
> I think this offence should automatically be attempted man slaughter and if
> you do kill, manslaughter. If you have no license, society deems you are
> not fit to drive, by then driving you are making a conscious decison.
>
> <snip>
>
> > No fines ... so no whining about revinue raising. Serious penalties
> > for repeat offenders

>
> Having serious penalities rarely works. Look at the death scentence, it
> does'nt work as a deterent.


It's not meant to be a deterrant so much as a removal of the offender
from the system, in a relevant way.

The only good deterrant is increasing the likelyhood of capture, which
is a different thing altogether.
 

coppershark

New Member
Feb 19, 2004
76
0
0
Bleve said:
Before I go writing to the local pollies etc, has anyone here heard of
a precedent for what I'm thinking of?

Speeding (and general road infraction) fines don't work terribly well
for a number of reasons - theu're not "fair", they punish the poor more
than the rich, and they're percieved by the punters as revinue raising.
So here's an alternative.

Abolish road infringement fines altogether.>>

See my post elsewhere on these forums - I think your idea has merit and should also apply to the "feral" cyclists in Swanston Street who speed, run red lights, do not have lights on their bikes when riding in the dark. Impound their bloody bikes as well and if they are found riding another bike while under suspension send the sheriff round to impound all their bikes!

The ****** Off Shark