B
Bleve
Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on 18 Jun 2006 07:49:45 -0700
> Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Before I go writing to the local pollies etc, has anyone here heard of
> > a precedent for what I'm thinking of?
> >
> > Speeding (and general road infraction) fines don't work terribly well
> > for a number of reasons - theu're not "fair", they punish the poor more
> > than the rich, and they're percieved by the punters as revinue raising.
> > So here's an alternative.
> >
> > Abolish road infringement fines altogether.
> >
> > Replace them with a graduated licence suspension scheme.
> >
>
> The problem is that people don't consider "speeding" a problem.
IMO, the problem is that people don't think -cars- are a problem, until
one of them gets killed or badly hurt in one.
> They do it every day, and nothing bad happens. So their risk meter
> says "it's not a problem".
Yes, and we all know about humans and risk assessment, and how bad "we"
are at it.
> Then difficulty of enforcement - if I ride my motorcycle to work
> tomorrow and I have a 1 day suspension what do you reckon my chances
> are of being caught?
Low, but if your bike is impounded/clamped, it's quite difficult to
ride it anywhere. Sure, you can borrow one .. but you'll find that
inconvenient at best. The kicker is the removal of the vehicle(s).
> PLus difficulty of catching. I do over the speed limit on some roads
> every day, as does everyone in the traffic stream. I have in some
> cases done that every day for years - what deterrent will your scheme
> be if I don't think I'll ever get done?
"I've been driving home drunk for years, just like everyone else".
1960's ...
Things *can* be changed.
> Unless all motor vehicles and liecences are tagged so that you need a
> valid licence to start the vehicle (and good luck in finding a way to
> retrofit that to my 1970s kickstart bike with flywheel magneto! And
> what do you reckon a bypass would cost down the local dragstrip?) then
> banking on a licence suspension being over before you get done is a
> good bet.
Nyet. Impound or clamp the thing. -simple-
> The biggest hassle on the road is getting people who do dangerous
> things at the time they are doing those things.
Yes, it is. I was riding (motorbike) home last night and there was
three idiot P platers dragging from every set of lights and one who was
diving through traffic all the way. Of course it's difficult to catch
them, and what I suggested was not related to catching them, but -was-
related to how to deal with two problems - public perception of our
current fines-based system, and how to deal with infringements if and
when they do get caught.
> That needs lots more
> cops, and it also needs a good list of things that *are* dangerous.
> Doing 70 in a 60 zone, 2 lane road, everyone doing the same, good
> visibility, that's not "dangerous". Swerving across two lanes of
> traffic to turn left is. Cutting across a cyclist in a roundabout is.
And going through a red light at a ped crossing isn't when there's no
pedestrians you can see, either? Not the point. When we get licences
we agree to play by the rules.
> The base problem is that personal motorised transport is vital in this
> country, it's very self-centred so there's no real behaviour control
> mechanism except an authoritarian police who are hardly around
> (because there aren't enough of them) and who are forced to
> concentrate on things that can be objectively measured by machine
> because anything else is too expensive to prosecute in terms of police
> and court time.
True, but irrelevant to what I suggested, which was -not- about
catching people, but what to do when you do catch them.
>
> Zebee
> In aus.bicycle on 18 Jun 2006 07:49:45 -0700
> Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Before I go writing to the local pollies etc, has anyone here heard of
> > a precedent for what I'm thinking of?
> >
> > Speeding (and general road infraction) fines don't work terribly well
> > for a number of reasons - theu're not "fair", they punish the poor more
> > than the rich, and they're percieved by the punters as revinue raising.
> > So here's an alternative.
> >
> > Abolish road infringement fines altogether.
> >
> > Replace them with a graduated licence suspension scheme.
> >
>
> The problem is that people don't consider "speeding" a problem.
IMO, the problem is that people don't think -cars- are a problem, until
one of them gets killed or badly hurt in one.
> They do it every day, and nothing bad happens. So their risk meter
> says "it's not a problem".
Yes, and we all know about humans and risk assessment, and how bad "we"
are at it.
> Then difficulty of enforcement - if I ride my motorcycle to work
> tomorrow and I have a 1 day suspension what do you reckon my chances
> are of being caught?
Low, but if your bike is impounded/clamped, it's quite difficult to
ride it anywhere. Sure, you can borrow one .. but you'll find that
inconvenient at best. The kicker is the removal of the vehicle(s).
> PLus difficulty of catching. I do over the speed limit on some roads
> every day, as does everyone in the traffic stream. I have in some
> cases done that every day for years - what deterrent will your scheme
> be if I don't think I'll ever get done?
"I've been driving home drunk for years, just like everyone else".
1960's ...
Things *can* be changed.
> Unless all motor vehicles and liecences are tagged so that you need a
> valid licence to start the vehicle (and good luck in finding a way to
> retrofit that to my 1970s kickstart bike with flywheel magneto! And
> what do you reckon a bypass would cost down the local dragstrip?) then
> banking on a licence suspension being over before you get done is a
> good bet.
Nyet. Impound or clamp the thing. -simple-
> The biggest hassle on the road is getting people who do dangerous
> things at the time they are doing those things.
Yes, it is. I was riding (motorbike) home last night and there was
three idiot P platers dragging from every set of lights and one who was
diving through traffic all the way. Of course it's difficult to catch
them, and what I suggested was not related to catching them, but -was-
related to how to deal with two problems - public perception of our
current fines-based system, and how to deal with infringements if and
when they do get caught.
> That needs lots more
> cops, and it also needs a good list of things that *are* dangerous.
> Doing 70 in a 60 zone, 2 lane road, everyone doing the same, good
> visibility, that's not "dangerous". Swerving across two lanes of
> traffic to turn left is. Cutting across a cyclist in a roundabout is.
And going through a red light at a ped crossing isn't when there's no
pedestrians you can see, either? Not the point. When we get licences
we agree to play by the rules.
> The base problem is that personal motorised transport is vital in this
> country, it's very self-centred so there's no real behaviour control
> mechanism except an authoritarian police who are hardly around
> (because there aren't enough of them) and who are forced to
> concentrate on things that can be objectively measured by machine
> because anything else is too expensive to prosecute in terms of police
> and court time.
True, but irrelevant to what I suggested, which was -not- about
catching people, but what to do when you do catch them.
>
> Zebee