"ancient" dura ace rear derailleur identification problem

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by geos, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. geos

    geos Guest

    hello,

    is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?

    http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

    I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
    history section.

    I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
    it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

    thanks,
    goes
     
    Tags:


  2. geos

    geos Guest

    geos wrote:
    > hello,
    >
    > is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >
    > I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
    > history section.
    >
    > I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
    > it was produced. but any information would be helpful.


    additional information: the code from the derailleur is "FD-Z254 VIA"

    thanks,
    geos
     
  3. > is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5


    Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
    angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
    Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
    DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.

    I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
     
  4. Diablo Scott

    Diablo Scott Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

    >
    > Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all,


    "FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
    rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.
     
  5. geos

    geos Guest

    Diablo Scott wrote:
    > "FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
    > rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.


    I cropped the picture. there was also a front derailleur visible and
    shifters. this code could be marked on FD (I don't have accurate
    information from the owner).

    thanks,
    geos
     
  6. geos

    geos Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >>
    >> http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

    >
    > Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
    > angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
    > Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
    > DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
    >
    > I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...


    thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
    consider :)

    thanks,
    geos
     
  7. geos wrote:
    > Diablo Scott wrote:
    > > "FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
    > > rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.

    >
    > I cropped the picture. there was also a front derailleur visible and
    > shifters. this code could be marked on FD (I don't have accurate
    > information from the owner).


    FD is a front der, RD is a rear der, shift levers are often SL.
    Z is an average (not super cheap, not fancy) gear level from
    the mid 80s or so.

    <http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Hersteller/Shimano/Gruppen80.html>

    The derailleur appears to be a slant parallelogram, so
    it's after the Suntour patent expired. It looks like it's mostly
    aluminum, so it isn't the cheapest level, which has greater
    amounts of stamped steel. The DA sticker is definitely a
    homebrew mod, like putting a fancy exhaust pipe on a
    factory Honda. Not that there's anything wrong with factory
    Hondas. Look on the bright side, if the rear der is from the
    index-shifting era, its cable pull will be compatible with
    modern Shimano shifters, while a late 80s Dura-Ace
    rear der would not be.
     
  8. geos wrote:
    > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >> is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    > >>
    > >> http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

    > >
    > > Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
    > > angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
    > > Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
    > > DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
    > >
    > > I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

    >
    > thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
    > consider :)
    >


    Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
    anything. Suntour??
     
  9. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    geos wrote:

    > hello,
    >
    > is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >
    > I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
    > history section.
    >
    > I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
    > it was produced. but any information would be helpful.


    That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.

    It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
    the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

    >>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >>
    >>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5

    >
    >
    > Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
    > angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
    > Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
    > DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
    >
    > I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...


    The sticker is not 'factory"
    He says it is a SHimano "Z"

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  11. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    Ozark Bicycle wrote:
    > geos wrote:
    >
    >>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >>
    >>>>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >>>>
    >>>>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >>>
    >>>Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
    >>>angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
    >>>Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
    >>>DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
    >>>
    >>>I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...

    >>
    >>thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
    >>consider :)
    >>

    >
    >
    > Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
    > anything. Suntour??


    The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
    the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
    SunTour.

    I checked some photos on Ebay, and it's not Superbe or cyclone in any of
    the variations now on sale, nor any later SunTour creations, at least
    not that I can see.

    Mark "SunTour Buff"
     
  12. A Muzi wrote:
    > geos wrote:
    >
    >> hello,
    >>
    >> is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >>
    >> http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >>
    >> I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at
    >> www.duraace.com history section.
    >>
    >> I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what
    >> year it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

    >
    > That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.
    >
    > It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
    > the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.


    What is this slant parallelogram thing?
    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  13. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    >>geos wrote:
    >>>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >>>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >>>I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at
    >>>www.duraace.com history section.
    >>>I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what
    >>>year it was produced. but any information would be helpful.


    > A Muzi wrote:
    >>That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.
    >>It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
    >>the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.


    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > What is this slant parallelogram thing?


    (second look i'm not so sure if this is or not.)

    Suntour invented the slanted body in the sixties, patent
    expired in the mid-80s.

    A classic changer, like early Record, shifts straight in
    and out. Cogs are smaller on the outside, larger near the
    spokes. So a slanted body, like Suntour or modern changers,
    tracks better.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  14. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    geos wrote:
    > hello,
    >
    > is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >
    > I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
    > history section.
    >
    > I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
    > it was produced. but any information would be helpful.
    >
    > thanks,
    > goes


    There might also be photo misrepresentation here. Look at the area in
    front of the guide pulley. Looks weird to me.


    Robin Hubert
     
  15. JeffWills

    JeffWills Guest

    geos wrote:
    > Diablo Scott wrote:
    > > "FD-Z254 VIA" - I don't ever remember a time when Shimano labeled their
    > > rear derailleurs with a FD prefix. Very odd.

    >
    > I cropped the picture. there was also a front derailleur visible and
    > shifters. this code could be marked on FD (I don't have accurate
    > information from the owner).
    >
    > thanks,
    > geos


    Anything Shimano "Z"-series was bottom of the line- about where Tourney
    or Altus is today. It's functional, but certainly not Dura-Ace.

    Jeff
     
  16. Mark Janeba wrote:

    > The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
    > the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
    > SunTour.
    >
    > I checked some photos on Ebay, and it's not Superbe or cyclone in any of
    > the variations now on sale, nor any later SunTour creations, at least
    > not that I can see.
    >
    > Mark "SunTour Buff"


    <http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/suntour/rd/rd.html>

    I don't see it there, but if you're a Suntour buff, you need
    to have a look there anyway.
     
  17. Mark Janeba wrote:
    > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
    > > geos wrote:
    > >
    > >>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    > >>>>
    > >>>>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    > >>>
    > >>>Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
    > >>>angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
    > >>>Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
    > >>>DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
    > >>>
    > >>>I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...
    > >>
    > >>thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
    > >>consider :)
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
    > > anything. Suntour??

    >
    > The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
    > the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
    > SunTour.
    >


    Who else made slant parallelogram RDs with the limit screws in that
    location? I can't think of any. (Perhaps the limit screws themselves
    are not original?)


    > I checked some photos on Ebay, and it's not Superbe or cyclone in any of
    > the variations now on sale, nor any later SunTour creations, at least
    > not that I can see.
    >
    > Mark "SunTour Buff"
     
  18. andresmuro

    andresmuro Guest

    geos wrote:
    > hello,
    >
    > is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >
    > I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at www.duraace.com
    > history section.
    >
    > I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what year
    > it was produced. but any information would be helpful.
    >
    > thanks,
    > goes


    I am almost certain that it is the Dura-Ass model.
     
  19. RonSonic

    RonSonic Guest

    On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:50:50 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >A Muzi wrote:
    >> geos wrote:
    >>
    >>> hello,
    >>>
    >>> is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    >>>
    >>> http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    >>>
    >>> I couldn't find any information on the internet, even at
    >>> www.duraace.com history section.
    >>>
    >>> I would appreciate your help with this, especially if you know what
    >>> year it was produced. but any information would be helpful.

    >>
    >> That is not a Dura Ace derailleur.
    >>
    >> It's a less expensive Shimano model or another brand from
    >> the mid-80s before Suntour's slant paralellogram patent expired.

    >
    >What is this slant parallelogram thing?


    You really want the book "The Dancing Chain." It's basically the history of
    bicycle shifting with an emphasis on derailleurs and their evolution. This is
    like cyclo-geek crack. You'll love it.

    Ron
     
  20. In article <[email protected]>,
    Ozark Bicycle ([email protected]) wrote:
    >
    > Mark Janeba wrote:
    > > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
    > > > geos wrote:
    > > >
    > > >>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > > >>
    > > >>>>is anybody familiar with this old dura ace rear derailleur below?
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>http://tinyurl.com/jjvq5
    > > >>>
    > > >>>Wow... hardly looks like a Shimano derailleur at all, with those sharp
    > > >>>angles and such. Reminds me of a Campy 980 (but it isn't). I don't recall
    > > >>>Shimano using that color scheme, so it could be that someone "created" that
    > > >>>DuraAce derailleur, but then I just turned 50 so I may have forgotten.
    > > >>>
    > > >>>I'll bet Andy Muzi knows...
    > > >>
    > > >>thanks Mike. "home made dura ace" hypothesis is something I also
    > > >>consider :)
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Given the location of the limit screws, I don't think it's a Shimano
    > > > anything. Suntour??

    > >
    > > The adjuster barrel reminds me of SunTour, but those limit screws and
    > > the *angular* tab below them for the anchor bolt just don't look like
    > > SunTour.
    > >

    >
    > Who else made slant parallelogram RDs with the limit screws in that
    > location? I can't think of any. (Perhaps the limit screws themselves
    > are not original?)


    Could it perchance be a Simplex?

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Kinder surprise! What's the surprise? Your children are now dead.
     
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