Ankling: what is it, and should I learn to do it?

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Peewiglet, Aug 11, 2005.

  1. Peewiglet

    Peewiglet Guest

    Can anyone tell me what this ankling thing is, please? Is it
    something I should try to do, or should I just be grateful that the
    pedals are moving round at all?

    Ta for any enlightenment :)

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

    "I will have a foreign-handed foreign policy."
    g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
    This signature was made by SigChanger.
    You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
     
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  2. Gippledocks

    Gippledocks Guest

    Peewiglet wrote:
    > Can anyone tell me what this ankling thing is, please? Is it
    > something I should try to do, or should I just be grateful that the
    > pedals are moving round at all?
    >
    > Ta for any enlightenment :)
    >
    > Best wishes,


    AASHTA

    http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_an-z.html#ankling

    (Sheldon includes a reference to Jobst Brandt on the same topic)

    Richard
     
  3. Peewiglet

    Peewiglet Guest

    On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:44:51 +0100, Gippledocks
    <[email protected]> wrote:


    Hi there,

    >AASHTA
    >
    >http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_an-z.html#ankling


    Nightmare! Many thnaks for the warning: I've already got achilles
    tendonitis and definitely don't want to make it worse!

    (What is AASHTA?)

    Thanks again!

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

    "Is our children learning?"
    g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
     
  4. Peewiglet <[email protected]> writes:

    > (What is AASHTA?)


    As Always Sheldon Has The Answer, at a guess.

    --
    Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
    "Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without
    fighting."
    - Sun Tzu
     
  5. wafflycat

    wafflycat Guest

    "Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:44:51 +0100, Gippledocks
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Hi there,
    >
    >>AASHTA
    >>
    >>http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_an-z.html#ankling

    >
    > Nightmare! Many thnaks for the warning: I've already got achilles
    > tendonitis and definitely don't want to make it worse!
    >


    Yet I find the ankling action quite useful, especially on my left foot. Said
    foot has old injuries - I broke my ankle years ago and on same foot I did in
    the tendons. As a result, I have decreased mobility on my left foot and it
    gives me a certain amount of pain. I do ankling-type movements of my foot
    periodically - on bike and off, to keep the foot mobile and it gives a lot
    of relief from the pain. YMMV.

    Cheers, helen s
     
  6. Peewiglet <[email protected]>typed

    > Nightmare! Many thnaks for the warning: I've already got achilles
    > tendonitis and definitely don't want to make it worse!



    Don't provoke it; with any luck it will settle. Mine settled after I
    pitched my tent such that my head was below my feet. I managed a 400km
    Audax with it...

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
    Edgware.
     
  7. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Gippledocks
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Peewiglet wrote:
    >> Can anyone tell me what this ankling thing is, please? Is it
    >> something I should try to do, or should I just be grateful that the
    >> pedals are moving round at all?
    >>
    >> Ta for any enlightenment :)
    >>
    >> Best wishes,

    >
    > AASHTA
    >
    > http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_an-z.html#ankling
    >
    > (Sheldon includes a reference to Jobst Brandt on the same topic)


    Well, I usually treat Sheldon with respect, but *rubbish*.

    I agree pretty much everything can be taken to extremes, but if I didn't
    ankle I'd be dead by now. OK, I'm a bit more vulnerable to deep vein
    thrombosis than most people, but ankling to a moderate degree certainly
    does help you pedal in circles, and more importantly greatly helps with
    the circulation of blood in your foot and lower leg. As you'll know if
    you've experienced foot pain, swelling, or pins and needles after a long
    cycle, the blood return from your foot and lower leg is actually quite
    poor when cycling, and this is because people typically flex their
    ankles less when cycling than when walking. Flexion of the ankle helps
    with the blood return up your veins.

    My feet always point slightly down when cycling, but considerably more
    down on the lower 180 degrees than on the upper. I'd agree with Sheldon
    it doesn't make much difference to power, but it does help with
    smoothness particularly when you're tired, and if you are suffering from
    foot discomfort then ten minutes of conscious ankling will make a big
    difference (/because/ it helps shift the blood).

    Personally I ankle a little bit all the time, and consciously do about
    ten minutes in the hour of more pronounced ankling on long rides. I
    don't doubt Sheldon's anecdote about tendon damage, but I'd suggest that
    was because he was doing something quite exaggerated and is any case
    only one data point. Lots of people will tell you helmets saved their
    lives. They may be right. Sheldon says ankling damaged his tendons. He
    may be right too, but frankly he's one in a very large number of people,
    and a lot of other people are getting a small but real benefit.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; When all else fails, read the distractions.
     
  8. Peewiglet

    Peewiglet Guest

    On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:22:47 +0100, Keith Willoughby
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Peewiglet <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >> (What is AASHTA?)

    >
    >As Always Sheldon Has The Answer, at a guess.


    Ahaa - thanks!

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

    "It's no exaggeration to say the undecideds could go one way or another."
    g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
     
  9. Peewiglet

    Peewiglet Guest

    On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:40:10 +0100, "wafflycat"
    <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:

    >
    >"Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:44:51 +0100, Gippledocks
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> Hi there,
    >>
    >>>AASHTA
    >>>
    >>>http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_an-z.html#ankling

    >>
    >> Nightmare! Many thnaks for the warning: I've already got achilles
    >> tendonitis and definitely don't want to make it worse!
    >>

    >
    >Yet I find the ankling action quite useful, especially on my left foot. Said
    >foot has old injuries - I broke my ankle years ago and on same foot I did in
    >the tendons. As a result, I have decreased mobility on my left foot and it
    >gives me a certain amount of pain. I do ankling-type movements of my foot
    >periodically - on bike and off, to keep the foot mobile and it gives a lot
    >of relief from the pain. YMMV.


    Interesting to hear another perspective: thanks!

    I'm not sure what to do now, though. Perhaps I could try skateboarding
    to work... ;-)

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

    "If you teach a child to read, he or her can pass a literacy test."
    g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
     
  10. wafflycat

    wafflycat Guest

    "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > I agree pretty much everything can be taken to extremes, but if I didn't
    > ankle I'd be dead by now. OK, I'm a bit more vulnerable to deep vein
    > thrombosis than most people, but ankling to a moderate degree certainly
    > does help you pedal in circles, and more importantly greatly helps with
    > the circulation of blood in your foot and lower leg. As you'll know if
    > you've experienced foot pain, swelling, or pins and needles after a long
    > cycle, the blood return from your foot and lower leg is actually quite
    > poor when cycling, and this is because people typically flex their
    > ankles less when cycling than when walking. Flexion of the ankle helps
    > with the blood return up your veins.
    >


    So it's not just me that gets a benefit from ankling then!

    Cheers, helen s
     
  11. wafflycat

    wafflycat Guest

    "Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >
    > Interesting to hear another perspective: thanks!
    >
    > I'm not sure what to do now, though. Perhaps I could try skateboarding
    > to work... ;-)
    >


    Certainly I don't ankle all the time whilst cycling, but I do periodically
    both on & off bike & it helps keep my mobility in the affected ankle.
    Definitely helps reducing the aching too if my ankle is seizing up at any
    time.

    Cheers, helen s
     
  12. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Peewiglet wrote:

    > I'm not sure what to do now, though.


    Whatever comes naturally. I believe ankling is potentially harmful if you
    have to force yourself to do it.

    ~PB
     
  13. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Peewiglet
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:40:10 +0100, "wafflycat"
    > <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:
    >
    >>"Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>> Nightmare! Many thnaks for the warning: I've already got achilles
    >>> tendonitis and definitely don't want to make it worse!

    >>
    >>Yet I find the ankling action quite useful, especially on my left foot.
    >>Said foot has old injuries - I broke my ankle years ago and on same
    >>foot I did in the tendons. As a result, I have decreased mobility on my
    >>left foot and it gives me a certain amount of pain. I do ankling-type
    >>movements of my foot periodically - on bike and off, to keep the foot
    >>mobile and it gives a lot of relief from the pain. YMMV.

    >
    > Interesting to hear another perspective: thanks!
    >
    > I'm not sure what to do now, though. Perhaps I could try skateboarding
    > to work... ;-)


    Well, as the other American guru-wannnabe says in his inimitable style in
    the article linked from Sheldon's, different people's pedalling styles
    differ, and it doesn't seem to matter that much; so first off do what
    comes natural to you. But second, if you're getting foot swelling and/or
    pins and needles in your feet, try consciously ankling a bit.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care
    in the community for you. -- Ben Evans
     
  14. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    wafflycat wrote:

    > So it's not just me that gets a benefit from ankling then!


    No, I like it too. Just seem to do it naturally (probably related to
    why I have saddles higher than others with similarly short legs, in
    fact), and find it spreads the muscle load around a bit.

    Sheldon isn't /alway/ right. Aside from this, his line on rolling
    mounts is, sorry to say, utter bollox (TM).

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  15. wheelist

    wheelist New Member

    Joined:
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    I'm with Simon on this one. Sheldon says......

    "This happened to me when I was a teen-ager; I had read about ankling, and had just acquired my first pair of toe clips, just before setting out on my first overnight tour. I ankled for about the first 30-40 miles, when there was a sudden sharp pain in one of my Achilles tendons"

    30-40 miles!! With his first ever pair of toe clips!! :eek:

    Just what did he expect?

    Personally I ankle for 1/2 a mile here and there. It helps the blood to circulate and strengthens your calf muscles. (It must do, I can feel the pain!!)

    Try it. A bit. If you don't like it, don't do it again. :)
     
  16. Peter Fox

    Peter Fox Guest

    Following on from Peewiglet's message. . .
    >Can anyone tell me what this ankling thing is, please? Is it
    >something I should try to do, or should I just be grateful that the
    >pedals are moving round at all?
    >
    >Ta for any enlightenment :)
    >
    >Best wishes,


    My 2d.

    There are three joints in your lower body each with muscles which work
    in pairs to give both a push and pull action. The actions associated
    with these three joints might be described as:
    * Standing up/sitting down
    * Kicking a football
    * Standing on tiptoe
    Of course we use them all together all the time but there may be
    circumstances where you want to emphasise one and rest another.

    If you can pull up as well as push down then you have extra muscles to
    play with.

    If you practice a bit with using your tip-toe action then when you want
    to make a special effort you have extra resources, or when you want to
    give your sit-up muscles a breather likewise. Remember this is a matter
    of emphasis not one thing or another.

    I found the kicking-a-football action interesting to experiment with.
    Basically you need to think in your mind of pushing the pedals forward
    at the top of each stroke. However although it could be used to
    increase speed for a short while I didn't persevere with it.

    BTW I just potter round the country lanes at 14mph so don't take any of
    the above as gospel. I do like to pile on the coal occasionally and it
    is interesting to see at different times what is the limiting factor -
    sometimes legs ache or are like lead and others the lungs want a rest
    and legs are fine. [And going to the pub is always faster than coming
    back.]

    --
    PETER FOX Not the same since the bottom fell out of the bucket business
    [email protected]
    www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists
     
  17. DavidR

    DavidR Guest

    "Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Can anyone tell me what this ankling thing is, please? Is it
    > something I should try to do, or should I just be grateful that the
    > pedals are moving round at all?
    >
    > Ta for any enlightenment :)


    According to Rob van der Plas in the Penguin Bicycle Handbook~

    "The benefit of this movement was thought to be an extended power stroke,
    allowing the the rider to push the pedal forward near the top and back near
    the bottom of the stroke. What in fact occurred - if this trick was ever
    mastered - was an effect corresponding to that produced by a shorter crank
    and a rather awkward stretching of muscles <....high speed photography and
    strain gauges...> showed that experienced and trained racing cyclists, far
    from making the movements prescribed by 'ankling' actually moved their feet
    much as shown in <illustration of 'natural' movement>. Next, efficiency
    tests revealed that both power and efficiency were higher with this
    'natural' pedalling motion than when 'ankling' according to textbook
    instructions even after repeated practice."
     
  18. Al C-F

    Al C-F Guest

    On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:20:43 +0100, Peewiglet <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:22:47 +0100, Keith Willoughby
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Peewiglet <[email protected]> writes:
    >>
    >>> (What is AASHTA?)

    >>
    >>As Always Sheldon Has The Answer, at a guess.

    >
    >Ahaa - thanks!
    >

    AHAA? You've got me there.
     
  19. Peewiglet

    Peewiglet Guest

    On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:58:20 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Peewiglet <[email protected]>typed
    >
    >> Nightmare! Many thnaks for the warning: I've already got achilles
    >> tendonitis and definitely don't want to make it worse!

    >
    >
    >Don't provoke it; with any luck it will settle. Mine settled after I
    >pitched my tent such that my head was below my feet.


    Weird! :)

    >I managed a 400km Audax with it...


    Well that sounds pretty encouraging! :)

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

    "The future will be better tomorrow."
    g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
     
  20. Peewiglet

    Peewiglet Guest

    On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:13:45 +0100, Al C-F
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:20:43 +0100, Peewiglet <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:22:47 +0100, Keith Willoughby
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Peewiglet <[email protected]> writes:
    >>>
    >>>> (What is AASHTA?)
    >>>
    >>>As Always Sheldon Has The Answer, at a guess.

    >>
    >>Ahaa - thanks!
    >>

    >AHAA? You've got me there.


    Whoops - typo! I meant Ahha.

    AHHA = A Hugely Helpful Answer.

    ;-)

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

    "You cannot be President of the United States if you don't have faith.
    Remember Lincoln, going to his knees in time of trial and the Civil War
    and all that stuff. You can't be. And we are blessed. So don't feel sorry
    for -- don't cry for me, Argentina."
    g.w.AT [guessthisbit].c
     
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