ANNIA - CHANG IS WRONG



Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:42:30 GMT, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote
> (in part):
>
>
> >> Yes, and both equally valuable.
> >
> >Thank you for the kind word :)
> >
>
> .................
>
> Aren't you forgetting something, Dr. Chung?
>
> Aren't you forgetting the part about in addition to thanking Annia for the kind word and telling
> her sincerely how much you appreciate it, you might want to let her know that your value to her as
> a "cyber-doc" in no way approximates the value to her of her own "hands-on" cardiologist - lest
> she, or the next Annia who comes along start ejecting their own doctors' advice in favor of yours.

I do feel that Dr. Chung is as valuable as my own cardiologist ...perhaps for different reasons, but
valuable nonetheless. I would not "eject" my own doctors' advice in favour of anyone else's. I am
not stupid. That being said, I feel that having someone else to "consult" with is important.

Sincerely, Annia
 
On 13 Feb 2004 23:09:07 -0800, [email protected]
(Annia) wrote:

>I do feel that Dr. Chung is as valuable as my own cardiologist ...perhaps for different reasons,
>but valuable nonetheless. I would not "eject" my own doctors' advice in favour of anyone else's. I
>am not stupid. That being said, I feel that having someone else to "consult" with is important.
>

................

First of all, it was a typo - the word was supposed to be "reject," not "eject."

Secondly, you have a right to your opinion. But if you value Dr. Chung's advice as muich as your own
cardiologist's advice, then you are living mighty dangerously. I wish you well.

smn
 
"Stephen Nagler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 13 Feb 2004 23:09:07 -0800, [email protected] (Annia) wrote:
>
>
> >I do feel that Dr. Chung is as valuable as my own cardiologist ...perhaps for different reasons,
> >but valuable nonetheless. I would not "eject" my own doctors' advice in favour of anyone else's.
> >I am not stupid. That being said, I feel that having someone else to "consult" with is important.
> >
>
> ................
>
> First of all, it was a typo - the word was supposed to be "reject," not "eject."
>
> Secondly, you have a right to your opinion. But if you value Dr. Chung's advice as muich as your
> own cardiologist's advice, then you are living mighty dangerously. I wish you well.
>

If I can interject :) I think they play different roles. Obviously one's personal Dr. has to be
primary. He has access to all the test results, history etc. and he is the one who will order new
tests, devices, drugs, etc. On the other hand, I think this board, and Dr. Chung in particular, can
play an educational role that ones own Dr. might not. For example, you might not be able to think of
all the questions you have with your own Dr. in the short time you have available. And some
reassurance can be obtained with the back and forth discussions. Further, if people disagree with
Dr. Chung I have not noticed any shyness about those views being expressed - which is not the kind
of double checking you typically get in a Drs. office.

In short, I see the roles as very much complementry and in no way competitive.

Bill
> smn
 
>If I can interject :) I think they play different roles. Obviously one's personal Dr. has to be
>primary. He has access to all the test results, history etc. and he is the one who will order new
>tests, devices, drugs, etc. On the other hand, I think this board, and Dr. Chung in particular, can
>play an educational role that ones own Dr. might not. For example, you might not be able to think
>of all the questions you have with your own Dr. in the short time you have available. And some
>reassurance can be obtained with the back and forth discussions. Further, if people disagree with
>Dr. Chung I have not noticed any shyness about those views being expressed - which is not the kind
>of double checking you typically get in a Drs. office.
>
>In short, I see the roles as very much complementry and in no way competitive.

.................

I respect your opinion - but I do not agree.

Even in an ideal situation wherein the cyber-doc is consistently dispensing accurate information,
the roles are primary and secondary - not equally important and complementary. In the situation one
finds on *this* particular board is far from "ideal." What happens here is
- in my opinion - an abomination ... both in the eyes of medicine and in the eyes of the Lord.

smn
 
> "Stephen Nagler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 13 Feb 2004 23:09:07 -0800, [email protected] (Annia) wrote:
> >
> >
> > >I do feel that Dr. Chung is as valuable as my own cardiologist ...perhaps for different
> > >reasons, but valuable nonetheless. I would not "eject" my own doctors' advice in favour of
> > >anyone else's. I am not stupid. That being said, I feel that having someone else to "consult"
> > >with is important.
> > >
> >
> > ................
> >
> > First of all, it was a typo - the word was supposed to be "reject," not "eject."
> >
> > Secondly, you have a right to your opinion. But if you value Dr. Chung's advice as muich as your
> > own cardiologist's advice, then you are living mighty dangerously. I wish you well.
> >
>
> If I can interject :) I think they play different roles. Obviously one's personal Dr. has to be
> primary. He has access to all the test results, history etc. and he is the one who will order new
> tests, devices, drugs, etc. On the other hand, I think this board, and Dr. Chung in particular,
> can play an educational role that ones own Dr. might not. For example, you might not be able to
> think of all the questions you have with your own Dr. in the short time you have available. And
> some reassurance can be obtained with the back and forth discussions. Further, if people disagree
> with Dr. Chung I have not noticed any shyness about those views being expressed - which is not the
> kind of double checking you typically get in a Drs. office.
>
> In short, I see the roles as very much complementry and in no way competitive.
>
> Bill
> > smn

Thank you Bill. That is exactly what I was getting at.

Sincerely, Annia
 
Annia wrote:

> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Annia wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > >
> > > > It's ok. Is sounds like you now have a cardiologist(s) who will listen to you.
> > > >
> > > > Both a real one and a virtual one :)
> > >
> > > Yes, and both equally valuable.
> >
> > Thank you for the kind word :)
>
> You're welcome. I was simply stating the truth. =)
>

And truth is beautiful :)

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2CA21267
 
Annia wrote:

> Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:42:30 GMT, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote
> > (in part):
> >
> >
> > >> Yes, and both equally valuable.
> > >
> > >Thank you for the kind word :)
> > >
> >
> > .................
> >
> > Aren't you forgetting something, Dr. Chung?
> >
> > Aren't you forgetting the part about in addition to thanking Annia for the kind word and telling
> > her sincerely how much you appreciate it, you might want to let her know that your value to her
> > as a "cyber-doc" in no way approximates the value to her of her own "hands-on" cardiologist -
> > lest she, or the next Annia who comes along start ejecting their own doctors' advice in favor of
> > yours.
>
> I do feel that Dr. Chung is as valuable as my own cardiologist ...perhaps for different reasons,
> but valuable nonetheless. I would not "eject" my own doctors' advice in favour of anyone else's. I
> am not stupid. That being said, I feel that having someone else to "consult" with is important.

Being informed is empowering.

May God give you that power, in Christ's name.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2CA21267
 
Bill wrote:

> "Stephen Nagler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 13 Feb 2004 23:09:07 -0800, [email protected] (Annia) wrote:
> >
> >
> > >I do feel that Dr. Chung is as valuable as my own cardiologist ...perhaps for different
> > >reasons, but valuable nonetheless. I would not "eject" my own doctors' advice in favour of
> > >anyone else's. I am not stupid. That being said, I feel that having someone else to "consult"
> > >with is important.
> > >
> >
> > ................
> >
> > First of all, it was a typo - the word was supposed to be "reject," not "eject."
> >
> > Secondly, you have a right to your opinion. But if you value Dr. Chung's advice as muich as your
> > own cardiologist's advice, then you are living mighty dangerously. I wish you well.
> >
>
> If I can interject :) I think they play different roles. Obviously one's personal Dr. has to be
> primary. He has access to all the test results, history etc. and he is the one who will order new
> tests, devices, drugs, etc. On the other hand, I think this board, and Dr. Chung in particular,
> can play an educational role that ones own Dr. might not. For example, you might not be able to
> think of all the questions you have with your own Dr. in the short time you have available. And
> some reassurance can be obtained with the back and forth discussions. Further, if people disagree
> with Dr. Chung I have not noticed any shyness about those views being expressed - which is not the
> kind of double checking you typically get in a Drs. office.
>
> In short, I see the roles as very much complementry and in no way competitive.
>
> Bill
>

I would concur, Bill.

God did not put me here to do any doctoring.

God did put me here to inform.

There is a difference.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2CA21267
 
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:44:47 GMT, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Being informed is empowering.

...............

Being incorrectly informed by a doctor who lies about his credentials isn't empowering - it's
dangerous.

smn
 
>All of this I view as good.

.............

I do not view it as "good" when a physician, one who who lies about his credentials and who files a
false police report about another physician who has the "unmitigated gall"to question those
inaccurate credentials, dispenses poor information to those who are in no position to determine
what is poor information or what is good information ... or they likely would not be here in the
first place.

Now we can go 'round and 'round about this all day long - but I have no intention of doing that. So
- with my blessing, Bill - have your last word.

smn
 
"Stephen Nagler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
>
> >If I can interject :) I think they play different roles. Obviously one's personal Dr. has to be
> >primary. He has access to all the test results,
history
> >etc. and he is the one who will order new tests, devices, drugs, etc. On
the
> >other hand, I think this board, and Dr. Chung in particular, can play an educational role that
> >ones own Dr. might not. For example, you might not be able to think of all the questions you have
> >with your own Dr. in the short time you have available. And some reassurance can be obtained with
> >the back and forth discussions. Further, if people disagree with Dr. Chung I have
not
> >noticed any shyness about those views being expressed - which is not the
kind
> >of double checking you typically get in a Drs. office.
> >
> >In short, I see the roles as very much complementry and in no way
competitive.
>
> .................
>
> I respect your opinion - but I do not agree.
>
> Even in an ideal situation wherein the cyber-doc is consistently dispensing accurate information,
> the roles are primary and secondary - not equally important and complementary. In the situation
> one finds on *this* particular board is far from "ideal." What happens here is
> - in my opinion - an abomination ... both in the eyes of medicine and in the eyes of the Lord.
>
> smn

I respect your opinion also. However, I'm not sure I made fully clear what I was saying. In my
first sentence I said the patient's own Dr. has to be primary which is the point you seem to be
arguing. Again, people can receive education here and reassurance here which often they may not get
at their Drs. appointment. So they operate on different planes - which do occasionally intersect
but mostly do not.

To put in my own case. I might come here to

- ask questions about something my cardiologist told me in order to gain reassurance we were going
the right way.

- educate myself on some aspect of a problem so I can be better informed and have a better
discussion the next time I go to the Drs. office. (Incidentally, and paradoxically, I find that
Drs. are more willing to talk to you about something the MORE you know about a subject. Not the
less you know.)

- perhaps discuss some small symptom or drug effect I'm not sure is significant enough to bring up
with the Dr. yet.

-etc.

All of this I view as good.

Bill
 
"Stephen Nagler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
>
> >All of this I view as good.
>
> .............
>
> I do not view it as "good" when a physician, one who who lies about his credentials and who files
> a false police report about another physician who has the "unmitigated gall"to question those
> inaccurate credentials, dispenses poor information to those who are in no position to determine
> what is poor information or what is good information ... or they likely would not be here in the
> first place.
>
> Now we can go 'round and 'round about this all day long - but I have no intention of doing that.
> So - with my blessing, Bill - have your last word.
>
> smn

Well we have been around several times on whether the information is "poor" I have not seen that.
What specifically are you referring to - outside of diet and religious issues? In any case, as I
mentioned, there are others here, such as yourself, who will likely point out any significant
errors. And, again, a major part of what happens here is to improve the interaction between the
patient and his/her primary physician.

I do not defend Dr. Chung on other issues, or even understand many of them, I simply maintain that
the educational service here is of great value.

Bill
 
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:03:29 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Aren't you forgetting something, Dr. Chung?

TROLLING, TROLLING ALL THE LIVE LONG DAY.

>You know, Dr. Chung, I'm a Board-Certified physician like you. I don't boast about it at the bottom
>of my posts like you do,

That's b/c you no longer have a practice, Nagler.

>but it's true. And I've been around the Internet for a while.

DARPA doesn't know who you are, Nagler.

>Moreover, if there's a mistake to be made on the Internet, likely I've made it.

You're making one now, Nagler, with your OBSESSIVE TROLLING of Chung, Nagler.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:27:53 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Even in an ideal situation wherein the cyber-doc is consistently dispensing accurate information,
>the roles are primary and secondary - not equally important and complementary. In the situation one
>finds on *this* particular board is far from "ideal." What happens here is
>- in my opinion - an abomination ... both in the eyes of medicine and in the eyes of the Lord.

As a Christless Jew, damned to Hell for all eternity, your opinions a quite worthless, Nagler.

TROLL on.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:53:59 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I do not view it as "good" when a physician, one who who lies about his credentials and who files a
>false police report about another physician who has the "unmitigated gall"to question those
>inaccurate credentials, dispenses poor information to those who are in no position to determine
>what is poor information or what is good information ... or they likely would not be here in the
>first place.

As a Christless Jew, damned for all eternity to Hell, your opinions on "good" and "bad" are quite
worthless, Nagler.

>Now we can go 'round and 'round about this all day long - but I have no intention of doing that.

TROLL on, Nagler.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
"Home, Home On The Mu_n" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:59:24 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Being incorrectly informed by a doctor who lies about his credentials isn't empowering - it's
> >dangerous.
>
> OBSESSIVE cyberstalking and TROLLING may get you in serious trouble, Nagler.
>
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

God will judge him.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J31722867

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
> "Stephen Nagler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> >
> >
> > >All of this I view as good.
> >
> > .............
> >
> > I do not view it as "good" when a physician, one who who lies about his credentials and who
> > files a false police report about another physician who has the "unmitigated gall"to question
> > those inaccurate credentials, dispenses poor information to those who are in no position to
> > determine what is poor information or what is good information ... or they likely would not be
> > here in the first place.
> >
> > Now we can go 'round and 'round about this all day long - but I have no intention of doing that.
> > So - with my blessing, Bill - have your last word.
> >
> > smn
>
> Well we have been around several times on whether the information is "poor" I have not seen that.
> What specifically are you referring to - outside of diet and religious issues? In any case, as I
> mentioned, there are others here, such as yourself, who will likely point out any significant
> errors. And, again, a major part of what happens here is to improve the interaction between the
> patient and his/her primary physician.
>
> I do not defend Dr. Chung on other issues, or even understand many of them, I simply maintain that
> the educational service here is of great value.
>
> Bill

It would seem that you also have the gift of truth discernment :)

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J31722867

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
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