Another blind driver.

[Pete Biggs]

Mark Thompson wrote:

>> I don't doubt that but I do know of a case where the driver's
>> insurance company paid every penny of what the cyclist demanded
>> after writing two letters to them (and enclosing evidence). So
>> surely it's worth a try before suing? ...with the help of a
>> solicitor.
>>
>> I can't help wondering if victims don't often get this advice because
>> there's not so much in it for the legal profession/industry.
>
> It's easy if you're claiming for 'stuff', like repairs to bike, taxi
> fares etc, but how much should you claim for the pain, suffering,
> inconvenience etc of a load of broken ribs? This is likely to be a)
> fairly large and b) vary a great deal depending on how much the
> victim suffers or is inconvenienced.
>
> It is unlikely the victim would have much of a clue about how much
> they could claim from the insurers. A half decent personal injury
> specialist would both ensure you got the maximum amount you could
> get, and (AFAIK) reclaim his costs from the insurers (so you don't
> pay a penny in legal fees). I may be wrong about that last point,
> and it would depend on how the solicitors work.

I did say "with the help of a solicitor".

~PB

 

[John_Kane]

Eric B wrote:
> Tony Raven a écrit :
> > Even if the police do nothing you can sue him in the civil courts for
> > the actual costs plus damages for the injury. Get thee to the CTC
> > solicitors today to get it started. The only disatisfaction is that it
> > will be his insurance company and not him that pays but at least it will
> > put up his insurance bills for a few years.
>
> As a French going to live in London soon, I don't really understand:
>
> I have friend in France who cycles a lot (for commuting plus for
> training), and one day a car came out of a stop sign at a T intersection
> and they crashed.
> It was obviously the (blind) car driver's fault. They filled the usual
> form for accidents ("constat") that they needed to send both to their
> insurance companies. Then everything was settled by arrangements between

> both insurance companies: the car driver's insurance paid everything,
> injury, clothes, helmet, the brand new bike, perhaps even some moral
> prejudice. No lawsuit, no lawsuit threat, no police... were needed.
>
> A few notes about French insurance regulations:
> - it is compulsory for car drivers to have an insurance that covers at
> least the damage done to other road users
> - bikes usually don't have a proper insurance, but insurance for cycling
> (as any other activity that is not particularly dangerous) is part of
> most housing insurance contracts
> - an accident while commuting is considered as a "work accident" (I
> don't know how to say in English: "accident du travail") and is handled
> by the employer's insurance (at least theoretically: the employers don't
> like this idea)
>
> How does this compare to UK? What kind of insurance do I need to take on
> my arrival?
>
> And my sympathy for Pimky.


Hi Eric,
I cannot remember the details but there was a discussion on the
difference in French and British law re bicycle-automoble collisions
some time ago here, perhaps 3 or 4 years ago. The civil or common law
is quite different. IIRC basically the French law assumes that the
driver's insurance will pay the damages. British (and Canadian law) is
quite different.

Perhaps someone on the ng remembers the thread?
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

 

[Pete Biggs]

ps. The case I mentioned did include personal injury and a four-figure sum
for compensation was paid out. A lawyer (or anyone, I suppose) can look
up case history to see what was awarded for similar injuries to others in
the past in court cases and demand that from the insurers.

~PB

 

[John B]

Mark Thompson wrote:

> > I don't doubt that but I do know of a case where the driver's insurance
> > company paid every penny of what the cyclist demanded after writing two
> > letters to them (and enclosing evidence). So surely it's worth a try
> > before suing? ...with the help of a solicitor.
> >
> > I can't help wondering if victims don't often get this advice because
> > there's not so much in it for the legal profession/industry.
>
> It's easy if you're claiming for 'stuff', like repairs to bike, taxi fares
> etc, but how much should you claim for the pain, suffering, inconvenience
> etc of a load of broken ribs? This is likely to be a) fairly large and b)
> vary a great deal depending on how much the victim suffers or is
> inconvenienced.
>

A reasonable start is the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority which has
which has a scale of rates payable for various criminal injuries.
There is a calculator here;
http://www.lsa.org.uk/lsa11.htm

It shows that fractured ribs should receive £1500.

A claim should at least obtain this amount.
I'm not sure if road attacks are eligible as motorists are often immune to
having to take responsibility.

John B

 

[Jon Schneider]

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> writes:

> In the UK motor vehicle drivers have to be insured, with a minimum
> being that to cover third parties, but there is a cultural difference
> I think, from my experience of cycling & driving in both France & UK,
> where there is a lot less respect towards cyclists over here in the UK
> and it can be difficult to get insurance companies to settle cases
> *fairly* as opposed to minimising their loss...

Not quite. The minimum is "act only" but it can't normally be bought.

Jon

 

[Danny Colyer]

John B wrote:
> It shows that fractured ribs should receive £1500.
>
> A claim should at least obtain this amount.

Hopefully that means £1500 for each fractured rib, in which case Pinky
will be able to get himself a *really* nice recumbent trike.

Good luck Pinky, and get well soon.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Jon Schneider wrote:
> "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> writes:
>
>> In the UK motor vehicle drivers have to be insured, with a minimum
>> being that to cover third parties, but there is a cultural difference
>> I think, from my experience of cycling & driving in both France & UK,
>> where there is a lot less respect towards cyclists over here in the
>> UK and it can be difficult to get insurance companies to settle cases
>> *fairly* as opposed to minimising their loss...
>
> Not quite. The minimum is "act only" but it can't normally be bought.
>
Quite right. At least. Quite right until the late 1980s. 3rd party has been
compulsory since about then.
--
Ambrose

 

[David Martin]

Pinky wrote:
> Not a lot of sleep last night but a bit more compos mentis this morning.
> The police rang me this morning and are coming round to see me later today.
> The driver has admitted liability in his statement to the police. Inevitably
> he said "I didn't see him" despite me being in bright blue and white bib
> longs and a top in black, red and white stripes. My bike is silver all over!

I had a similar event last year where someone didn't see me.
Fortunately I was able to stop - just - with the first endo on my road
bike for many decades. If he has admitted a criminal offence he should
at least get a caution, but what happens to him is little comfort to
you now.

> I have already had a long session with CTC helpline and that seems to be
> reassuring.
>
> It is quite funny ( =odd) but I am more frightened now about what I thought
> of, as it was happening -- that I was going to be killed. If I hadn't
> managed to brake effectively ( thank goodness for my new "velocepanther") I
> think I would have been under his front wheels -- it is quite scary!

It is a natural reaction, to relive the event and think what might have
been. Reaction in crisis is a very strange thing - adrenalin does
really strange things to the body.

...d

 

[the.Mark]

Danny Colyer wrote:
> John B wrote:
>> It shows that fractured ribs should receive £1500.
>>
>> A claim should at least obtain this amount.
>
> Hopefully that means £1500 for each fractured rib, in which
> case Pinky will be able to get himself a *really* nice
> recumbent trike.
> Good luck Pinky, and get well soon.

I got £2500 compensation after a driver hit me with his car. That's
how I got my Windcheetah (I did have to add a bit of my own cash). I
didn't have any broken bones but I was off work for 3 weeks with
concussion and whiplash injuries.

Hope the pain goes soon Pinky.
--
Cheers
the.Mark

 

[Eric B]

John_Kane a écrit :
> I cannot remember the details but there was a discussion on the
> difference in French and British law re bicycle-automoble collisions
> some time ago here, perhaps 3 or 4 years ago. The civil or common law

I have looked for "common civil law france group:uk.rec.cycling" in
Google Groups between 1998 and 2004, but I haven't found anything...

 

[Eric B]

wafflycat a écrit :
> there is a lot less respect towards cyclists over here in the UK and it can be

How is that possible?


> Similar to UK, but you'll find many of the posters here belong to
> cycling organisations such as the CTC or British Cycling. One of the
> benefits of such membership is legal assistance when you need it and

What about LCC? (for London)
I won't be racing, just commuting.


Thanks for all the comments.

 

[John B]

Danny Colyer wrote:

> John B wrote:
> > It shows that fractured ribs should receive £1500.
> >
> > A claim should at least obtain this amount.
>
> Hopefully that means £1500 for each fractured rib, in which case Pinky
> will be able to get himself a *really* nice recumbent trike.

'Fraid not.. That was for two or more. Also, they also only count the
most serious injury. If there is a less serious injury you only get 10%
of that's 'value'.

> Good luck Pinky, and get well soon.

John B

 

[Mark Thompson]

> 'Fraid not.. That was for two or more. Also, they also only count the
> most serious injury. If there is a less serious injury you only get 10%
> of that's 'value'.

This would put a 'lower value' on it. I.e. for two or more broken ribs,
you'd expect to get _more_ than £1500. It provides a lower end ballpark
figure.

 

[John B]

Mark Thompson wrote:

> > 'Fraid not.. That was for two or more. Also, they also only count the
> > most serious injury. If there is a less serious injury you only get 10%
> > of that's 'value'.
>
> This would put a 'lower value' on it. I.e. for two or more broken ribs,
> you'd expect to get _more_ than £1500. It provides a lower end ballpark
> figure.

I didn't think the government determined CICA scales worked like that - I
thought they were fixed, while of course taking a civil case it depends on
the skill of your legal representative.
BICBW.

John B

 

[[email protected]]

Eric B wrote:
> wafflycat a écrit :
> > there is a lot less respect towards cyclists over here in the UK and itcan be
>
> How is that possible?

London is actually pretty good for cyclists these days. Busy, but slow
and drivers are increasingly cycle aware because of the rising numbers

> > Similar to UK, but you'll find many of the posters here belong to
> > cycling organisations such as the CTC or British Cycling. One of the
> > benefits of such membership is legal assistance when you need it and
>
> What about LCC? (for London)
> I won't be racing, just commuting.

LCC and CTC offer similar benefits and the costs are comparable. LCC
offer slightly more bike shop discounts if you are in London. At least
one would seem a worthwhile investment. LCC may offer more options for
non racing social riding although membership is not a prerequisite to
try this out

best wishes
james

 

[wafflycat]

"Eric B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wafflycat a écrit :
>> there is a lot less respect towards cyclists over here in the UK and it
>> can be
>
> How is that possible?
>
>

Very easily!

Put it this way... every time The Unfit Family has cycled in France, the
offspring has declared that even though he can't speak French, he has a
hankering to live in France


>> Similar to UK, but you'll find many of the posters here belong to cycling
>> organisations such as the CTC or British Cycling. One of the benefits of
>> such membership is legal assistance when you need it and
>
> What about LCC? (for London)
> I won't be racing, just commuting.
>

Seems a useful organisation.

Cheers, helen s

 

[Tony Raven]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> London is actually pretty good for cyclists these days. Busy, but
> slow and drivers are increasingly cycle aware because of the rising
> numbers
>

I would have to agree.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham