Another decade gone. Time to repaint again...

[Chris Zacho "Th]

This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint
job. The type that is one color when viewed from one angle,
and a different color when the angle is changed. And I have
some questions about it before I decide.

1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?). is
it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
general public? If not;

2. How expensive?

3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming one has the proper
equipment (compressor, paint gun). How complex is the
process, and where could I learn how?

4. What color combinations are available? I would like
something like green/cyan.

Again, TIA

- -

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Dave Thompson]

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change"
> paint job. The type that is one color when viewed from one
> angle, and a different color when the angle is changed.
> And I have some questions about it before I decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?).
> is it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming one has the proper
> equipment (compressor, paint gun). How complex is the
> process, and where could I learn how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available? I would like
> something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
> for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
>
Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin &
Klein has their version. I've seen similar paint jobs on
Chrysler and Ford products. Go to an automotive paint
suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this type
of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is
close to $1000!

 

[Dan Daniel]

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:46:01 -0400, [email protected] (Chris
Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:

>This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change"
>paint job. The type that is one color when viewed from one
>angle, and a different color when the angle is changed. And
>I have some questions about it before I decide.
>
>1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?). is
> it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
>2. How expensive?
>
>3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming one has the proper
> equipment (compressor, paint gun). How complex is the
> process, and where could I learn how?
>
>4. What color combinations are available? I would like
> something like green/cyan.
>
>Again, TIA
>
>- -
>
>"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
>for the hills!"
>

Search for Afflair pigments....

http://www.pcimag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__-
Features__Item/0,1846,62577,00.html

I can't imagine a custom painter not being able to do this.
Or an auto paint place should be able to provide it. At my
work, we have these types of pigments. They either come from
the manufacturer mixed in a base (e.g. Beckers from Sweden)
or in dry powders that we add to a clear medium.

The base color is critical for the effect, as with most
metal flakes. And the thickness of the coat is also
important. Getting a consistent thickness, within 1/1000" or
less, can be difficult on bike tubes.

I've used a little of the powder among other pigments in one
bike paint job. The flop is minimal and subtle. I applied a
urethane top coat- ChromaClear 7600 (two part, dangerous for
home use) which didn't seem to have a huge effect on the
flop. Beckers provides it own top coat which is pretty matt,
but I have no idea how this would hold up on a bike. I'm
going to test it soon for an upcoming paint job.

Basically, either have a bike painter do it- should be very
possible. Or talk to an auto paint supplier. Get a good respirator-
forced air preferable- and be careful. Some serious
chemicals in some of these paints, and metal powder is never
good for the lungs.

Be careful with these pigments- they can be eye striking but
actually quite ugly. As a guy I worked with said, it looks
like a couple of the colors you get in the bottom of the
dump bucket when mixing paints. Choose carefully and judge
it in sunlight.

 

[A Muzi]

Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote:

> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change"
> paint job. The type that is one color when viewed from one
> angle, and a different color when the angle is changed.
> And I have some questions about it before I decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?).
> is it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming one has the proper
> equipment (compressor, paint gun). How complex is the
> process, and where could I learn how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available? I would like
> something like green/cyan.
>
It's also available on cars. (It started there, actually)

A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as
to be aligned with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl
rinse with clear. Check at any auto paint wholesaler in
your area.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

 

[Zog The Undenia]

Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote:

> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change"
> paint job. The type that is one color when viewed from one
> angle, and a different color when the angle is changed.
> And I have some questions about it before I decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?).
> is it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming one has the proper
> equipment (compressor, paint gun). How complex is the
> process, and where could I learn how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available? I would like
> something like green/cyan.

Nissan, Rover and TVR have also used it on some of their
cars. The Nissan paint is 110UKP a tin according to the
dealership. Rover have the best colour - it's used on the
rather evil-looking MG ZTT.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~stefan.tapp/X11.jpg

 

[Rosco]

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change"
> paint job. The type that is one color when viewed from one
> angle, and a different color when the angle is changed.
> And I have some questions about it before I decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?).
> is it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming one has the proper
> equipment (compressor, paint gun). How complex is the
> process, and where could I learn how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available? I would like
> something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
> for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
>

The base supplier of this paint technology is Flex Products
(http://www.colorshift.com/). They sell their ChromaFlair
pigments to a number of different paint producers (DuPont-
ChromaLusion, PPG-Harlequin, ...) who then in turn sell to
the public. I believe it adds about $100 - $200 to the cost
of painting a bicycle. It is so expensive, it is sold by
the ounce.

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

Wow! Thanks for the info. I think I'll let a pro handle this
job, if I choose to go that route. I'll check with my LBS,
he's good at getting deals (my $2500 (msrp.) Rocky for
$1100, for example).

Maybe he can pull off another miracle. If not, I have
other ideas...

- -

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Mark]

Hi Chris, Actually, this kind of paint job has been around
quite a long time. Years ago, the old hot roddders used to
call this type of paint job "Flip-Flop".

The other poster mentions harlequin whish is what it is
technically called.

As far as cars go, the sky's the limit.

I'm quite sure Cycle Art does this type of Paint work
(Basically, they'll do anything you want) Also, they'll
replace/make virtually any decal you have on the bike, so it
doesn't look like an amateurish job.

I suspect an easy $450-500 for work such as this. If your
frame is a valuable one, when you think of it, it's not too
bad a price, as there certainly is lots of work involved.
Today, they make so many gorgeous paints, it's amazing what
is out there now. Mark

[email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in
message news:<29688-40808C59-86@storefull-
3174.bay.webtv.net>...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change"
> paint job. The type that is one color when viewed from one
> angle, and a different color when the angle is changed.
> And I have some questions about it before I decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?).
> is it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming one has the proper
> equipment (compressor, paint gun). How complex is the
> process, and where could I learn how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available? I would like
> something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
> for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by A Muzi
A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as
to be aligned with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl
rinse with clear. Check at any auto paint wholesaler in
your area.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.

 

[Phil Brown]

>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing
>with bike frames and could really screw up something like
>what the OP is wanting to get done. Auto painter + bike
>frame = paint recipe for disaster

Some do. It's as unfair a generalization as "All cyclists
run stop signs." Oh, wait... Phil Brown

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by Phil Brown
>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing
>with bike frames and could really screw up something like
>what the OP is wanting to get done. Auto painter + bike
>frame = paint recipe for disaster

Some do. It's as unfair a generalization as "All cyclists
run stop signs." Oh, wait... Phil Brown

OK, so even if we agree that a small percentage of automotive painters know what they are doing with regards to painting a bike frame, how does the original poster know which auto painter to select. Its still a **** shoot. My advice is go with the actual professional bike painters and quit trying to save a buck. Bike painters make their living doing this stuff and have experience with hundreds of frames and not just the neighbor's old Huffy.

 

[Dave Thompson]

"BaCardi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A Muzi wrote:
> > A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot
> > so as to be
aligned
> > with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl rinse with
> > clear. Check at any auto paint wholesaler in your
> > area.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since
> > 1 April, 1971
>
>
>
>
>
> I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing
> with bike frames and could really screw up something like
> what the OP is wanting to get done. Auto painter + bike
> frame = paint recipe for disaster.
>
>

Note: Mr. Muzi said "Check with any auto paint
WHOLESALER....." not auto paint SHOP.

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by Dave Thompson
Note: Mr. Muzi said "Check with any auto paint WHOLESALER....." not auto paint SHOP.

So what? Even worse, what's an auto paint shop going to tell you? Go to an auto painter?

Two words for you. Joe Bell. The man knows bikes and the intricacies of painting them. Or how about Brian Bayliss or the Spectrum in Colorado or Airglow? Quit trying to save a buck and go with an actual frame painter.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

BaCardi wrote:

> Two words for you. Joe Bell. The man knows bikes and the
> intricacies of painting them. Or how about Brian Bayliss
> or the Spectrum in Colorado or Airglow? Quit trying to
> save a buck and go with an actual frame painter.

If you want to save a buck, get your frame powdercoated.
I've seen reports here of excellent powdercoat jobs for
under $150. These days it looks really good, better than
most factory paint jobs. And while it's not as perfect as a
polyurethane job from one of the painters mentioned above,
it may be more durable.

It would be well worth it to dig up some old threads about
powdercoating.

Matt O.

 

[A Muzi]

> A Muzi wrote:
> > A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot
> > so as to be aligned with an electrostatic charge. Then
> > a pearl rinse with clear. Check at any auto paint
> > wholesaler in your area.

BaCardi wrote:
> I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing
> with bike frames and could really screw up something like
> what the OP is wanting to get done. Auto painter + bike
> frame = paint recipe for disaster.

We don't disagree. I have painted plenty of both and you
are exactly correct - most panel painters can't do tubes
well at all.

But he was asking for paint, not a painter. And paint comes
from auto paint wholesalers, just as I wrote. They will
accommodate a casual sale here and there to an amateur.

You responded to something in your mind, not in my text.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
>
>This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change"
>paint job. The type that is one color when viewed from one
>angle, and a different color when the angle is changed. And
>I have some questions about it before I decide.
>
>1. I have only seen this on certain bikes (Cannondale?). is
> it a patented process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;

If it is patented, it doesn't belong to Cannondale. I've
see a couple of cars with this type of paint job. The one I
recall was green and purple. As the car came up besides you
it was green and then the color changed to purple as it
went away. I would not paint my car in those colors, but to
each his own.
---------------
Alex

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin &
>Klein has their version. I've seen similar paint jobs on
>Chrysler and Ford products. Go to an automotive paint
>suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this type
>of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is
>close to $1000!

For a car, $1k to do a good paint job is actually cheap.
---------------
Alex

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing
>with bike frames and could really screw up something like
>what the OP is wanting to get done. Auto painter + bike
>frame = paint recipe for disaster.

Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is
the worst they can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily
fixed with a tap.
---------------
Alex

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
> >Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin &
> >Klein has their version. I've seen similar paint jobs on
> >Chrysler and Ford products. Go to an automotive paint
> >suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this
> >type of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a
> >car is close to $1000!
>
> For a car, $1k to do a good paint job is actually cheap.

He was saying just the paint itself is $1k, not including
having the work done.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

 

[S O R N I]

Anyone else see this as time to REPENT again?!?

No? Never mind...

Bill "therapy bound?" S.