ANOTHER Mountain Biker Death

[Mike Vandeman]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:26:48 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Dec 1, 1:06 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:59 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Nov 30, 8:27 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:17:53 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Nov 30, 7:53 am, Olebiker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> On Nov 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:53:31 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > >On Nov 28, 1:36 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> > >> \Apparently, the health benefits of mountain biking are exaggerated.
>>
>> >> >> > >Mike,
>>
>> >> >> > >Did you have the same response about the health benefits of running
>> >> >> > >when Jim Fixx died?
>>
>> >> >> > No, I've never claimed any health benefits from running, and I don't
>> >> >> > know that there IS any net benefit.
>>
>> >> >> What health benefits do you say were claimed by mountain bikers?
>>
>> >> >Mike,
>> >> >Why didn't you respond to my question? What health benefits claims
>> >> >are you referring to?
>>
>> >> I did answer you. See above.
>>
>> >You wrote, "They claim that there is a net health benefit from
>> >mountain biking. No
>> >evidence whatsoever."
>>
>> >That does not answer my question. What claim was made and who made
>> >it? Who is "they."
>>
>> I suggest that you try Google.
>> --
>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>>
>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I suggest you cite the claims you are referring to. Why won't you?

Why document what we all know to be true?
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Olebiker]

On Dec 2, 1:23 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:26:48 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 1, 1:06 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:59 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Nov 30, 8:27 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:17:53 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Nov 30, 7:53 am, Olebiker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Nov 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:53:31 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> >> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > >On Nov 28, 1:36 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >> \Apparently, the health benefits of mountain biking are exaggerated.
>
> >> >> >> > >Mike,
>
> >> >> >> > >Did you have the same response about the health benefits of running
> >> >> >> > >when Jim Fixx died?
>
> >> >> >> > No, I've never claimed any health benefits from running, and I don't
> >> >> >> > know that there IS any net benefit.
>
> >> >> >> What health benefits do you say were claimed by mountain bikers?
>
> >> >> >Mike,
> >> >> >Why didn't you respond to my question? What health benefits claims
> >> >> >are you referring to?
>
> >> >> I did answer you. See above.
>
> >> >You wrote, "They claim that there is a net health benefit from
> >> >mountain biking. No
> >> >evidence whatsoever."
>
> >> >That does not answer my question. What claim was made and who made
> >> >it? Who is "they."
>
> >> I suggest that you try Google.
> >> --
> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>
> >>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande-Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >I suggest you cite the claims you are referring to. Why won't you?
>
> Why document what we all know to be true?
> --
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Allow me to quote your original post: "Apparently, the health benefits
of mountain biking are exaggerated."

Are you stating that someone has claimed that mountain biking is the
key to eternal life? If so, who made that claim? Where? When?

Are you stating that someone has claimed that the cardiovascular
fitness derived from the aerobic exercise of mountain biking results
in health benefits? If so, why do you think that one man's death
disproves what medical science knows to be true?

Show me what claim you believe this man's death disputes.

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:27:01 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Dec 2, 1:23 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:26:48 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Dec 1, 1:06 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:59 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Nov 30, 8:27 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:17:53 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >On Nov 30, 7:53 am, Olebiker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Nov 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:53:31 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> > >On Nov 28, 1:36 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >> \Apparently, the health benefits of mountain biking are exaggerated.
>>
>> >> >> >> > >Mike,
>>
>> >> >> >> > >Did you have the same response about the health benefits of running
>> >> >> >> > >when Jim Fixx died?
>>
>> >> >> >> > No, I've never claimed any health benefits from running, and I don't
>> >> >> >> > know that there IS any net benefit.
>>
>> >> >> >> What health benefits do you say were claimed by mountain bikers?
>>
>> >> >> >Mike,
>> >> >> >Why didn't you respond to my question? What health benefits claims
>> >> >> >are you referring to?
>>
>> >> >> I did answer you. See above.
>>
>> >> >You wrote, "They claim that there is a net health benefit from
>> >> >mountain biking. No
>> >> >evidence whatsoever."
>>
>> >> >That does not answer my question. What claim was made and who made
>> >> >it? Who is "they."
>>
>> >> I suggest that you try Google.
>> >> --
>> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>>
>> >>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande-Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >I suggest you cite the claims you are referring to. Why won't you?
>>
>> Why document what we all know to be true?
>> --
>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>>
>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Allow me to quote your original post: "Apparently, the health benefits
>of mountain biking are exaggerated."
>
>Are you stating that someone has claimed that mountain biking is the
>key to eternal life? If so, who made that claim? Where? When?
>
>Are you stating that someone has claimed that the cardiovascular
>fitness derived from the aerobic exercise of mountain biking results
>in health benefits? If so, why do you think that one man's death
>disproves what medical science knows to be true?
>
>Show me what claim you believe this man's death disputes.

This isn't rocket science, but it IS science. You have to look at the
NET benefit. If 50 people improve their health, but another 40 have
serious injuries and 10 die (insert your own statistics), where is the
NET benefit? That represents a net loss. This question can only be
answered by good science, NOT loose speculation. Do you get it yet?
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[[email protected]]

Again Mike, you open your mouth and remove all doubt, you are remarkably
stupid.

Medical science clearly provides evidence that exercise (usually at least 3
days a week and for a minimum of half an hour, but an hour preferred that
raises the heart rate) has all sorts of positive benefits from improving
mental acuity, improving ones outlook on life, cardiovascular, facilitating
weight loss, etc. The benefits are way to numerous to list here but are
easily discovered by those not so biased.er

Given a sport that has a few million practitioners, there would need to be
deaths on the order of 100,000 deaths per year or more to make a dent in the
benefit. Instead of the handful of deaths that occur every year (less than
20), The majority of injuries that occur are bumps and bruises, where those
injured are back up and riding a day or two later in most cases and those
that do break something and require more time off the bike are back on in a
month or two.

I have been an advocate hiker and runner for 40 yrs, an advocate cyclist for
30, skier for 20, and recently (less than a year) taken up short track speed
skating. My longest nagging injury came from a backpack trip this summer
where I hyper extended my knee on a steep descent - didn't stop me from my
other activities - just needed to baby it as I re strengthened it. My point
is that I have known hundreds of others like me over the last 40 plus years
who engage in all sorts of exercise modes with little more than a few bumps
and bruises - in only a handful of cases (3 to be exact were the injuries
serious - 2 killed by cars while cycling on the road and one suffered a
severe skiing accident last year and is now in a wheelchair).
Statistically, all of these are rare and choosing to stop my various modes
of sport and hide under my bed, would result (probabilistic that is) in me
gaining weight, having my good cholesterol declining (as exercise stimulates
production of good cholesterol), muscle mass decline so that as I age I will
be more susceptible to falling (see studies in geriatric medicine), heart
condition will deteriorate, blood pressure may rise, etc. Yeah if you were
the Surgeon General we would all be fat and I die younger - hmmm, given your
other views, maybe this is a plot by you to wipe out humans.

 

[Olebiker]

On Dec 2, 10:53 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:27:01 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 2, 1:23 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:26:48 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Dec 1, 1:06 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:59 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Nov 30, 8:27 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:17:53 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> >> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >On Nov 30, 7:53 am, Olebiker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Nov 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:53:31 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > >On Nov 28, 1:36 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > >> \Apparently, the health benefits of mountain biking are exaggerated.
>
> >> >> >> >> > >Mike,
>
> >> >> >> >> > >Did you have the same response about the health benefits of running
> >> >> >> >> > >when Jim Fixx died?
>
> >> >> >> >> > No, I've never claimed any health benefits from running, and I don't
> >> >> >> >> > know that there IS any net benefit.
>
> >> >> >> >> What health benefits do you say were claimed by mountain bikers?
>
> >> >> >> >Mike,
> >> >> >> >Why didn't you respond to my question? What health benefits claims
> >> >> >> >are you referring to?
>
> >> >> >> I did answer you. See above.
>
> >> >> >You wrote, "They claim that there is a net health benefit from
> >> >> >mountain biking. No
> >> >> >evidence whatsoever."
>
> >> >> >That does not answer my question. What claim was made and who made
> >> >> >it? Who is "they."
>
> >> >> I suggest that you try Google.
> >> >> --
> >> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> >> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> >> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> >> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>
> >> >>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande-Hidequoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >I suggest you cite the claims you are referring to. Why won't you?
>
> >> Why document what we all know to be true?
> >> --
> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>
> >>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande-Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >Allow me to quote your original post: "Apparently, the health benefits
> >of mountain biking are exaggerated."
>
> >Are you stating that someone has claimed that mountain biking is the
> >key to eternal life? If so, who made that claim? Where? When?
>
> >Are you stating that someone has claimed that the cardiovascular
> >fitness derived from the aerobic exercise of mountain biking results
> >in health benefits? If so, why do you think that one man's death
> >disproves what medical science knows to be true?
>
> >Show me what claim you believe this man's death disputes.
>
> This isn't rocket science, but it IS science. You have to look at the
> NET benefit. If 50 people improve their health, but another 40 have
> serious injuries and 10 die (insert your own statistics), where is the
> NET benefit? That represents a net loss. This question can only be
> answered by good science, NOT loose speculation. Do you get it yet?
> - Show quoted text -

That's a mighty big "if". The scenario you present does not exist.
Were talking science here, not conjecture.

 

[Chris]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:04:58 -0600, Tom Sherman
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:13:45 -0600, Tom Sherman
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:10:53 -0600, Tom Sherman
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ray ??? wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> \Apparently, the health benefits of mountain biking are
>>>>>>>>> exaggerated. <snip!>
>>>>>>>> Whoopee. 1.2 million people per annum are killed by cars and
>>>>>>>> this is the best you can come up with? According to my
>>>>>>>> calculator (unless I've slipped a decimal point) that's around
>>>>>>>> 33,000 people A DAY.
>>>>>>> Note that Mike Janelle's death had nothing to do with off-road
>>>>>>> bicycle racing, and was in all likelihood the result of a
>>>>>>> genetic heart defect.
>>>>>> FABRICATING information again, Tom? You have absolutely no
>>>>>> evidence, just your own speculation.
>>>>> Did I present it as fact or hypothesis? I see Mr. Vandeman is
>>>>> having problems with English reading comprehension.
>>>>>
>>>>>> WHATEVER happens to him obviously has A LOT
>>>>>> to do with his profession, since he spends so much time at it.
>>>>>> DUH! If mountain biking improves health, on average, this
>>>>>> shouldn't happen.
>>>>> When did Mr. Vandeman become a cardiologist? Note that Mr.
>>>>> Vandeman is doing exactly what he falsely accused me of -
>>>>> presenting speculation as fact.
>>>> Yawn.
>>> Loss of words when someone points out your errors, eh Mikey?
>>
>> No, loss of interest, when someone says absolutely NOTHING.
>
> That is why I hardly ever read any of Mikey V's posts.
>

You can read all you want, just dont respond.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Chris]

"Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:U3X3j.16$vB.5@trnddc05:

>
> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:37:01 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:32:05 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 02:48:48 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You poor, sick *******.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously, I care more about mountain bikers' safety than they
>>>>>> themselves do! YOU are the sick one.
>>>>>
>>>>>His sport is not what killed him ignorant asshole. Indeed, he had
>>>>>an unnamed
>>>>>medical condition that caused his health problem which tok his
>>>>>life,
>>>>
>>>> Fabricating evidence that you don't have again? You have ZERO
>>>> information. In fact, LESS than zero.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Fabricating? Please cite ANY evidence you have that says he died as a
>>>direct
>>>result of riding his bike.
>>
>> I never said that, liar. Learn to READ, then come back.
>
>
> When I was a kid, society committed people like you to mental
> institutions solely because a person could not keep up with his own
> discussion. Lucky for you, society does not commit people to mental
> hospitals anymore.
>
> Your entire premise is that bike riding has adverse health affects. My
> premise is that the adverse condition(s) that resulted in a heart
> attack has nothing at all to do with riding a bike.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> --
>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
>> are fond of!
>>
>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
>

Jeff,
Please do not respond to this troll. You just add fuel to the fire.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Jeff Strickland]

"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>
>
> Jeff,
> Please do not respond to this troll. You just add fuel to the fire.
>


Sorry. I haven't got many flaws, but this is one of them. I see his blatant
lies and half-truths all wrapped in a selfish agenda, and simply can not
avoid the temptation to point them out.

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:58:45 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Again Mike, you open your mouth and remove all doubt, you are remarkably
>stupid.
>
>Medical science clearly provides evidence that exercise (usually at least 3
>days a week and for a minimum of half an hour, but an hour preferred that
>raises the heart rate) has all sorts of positive benefits from improving
>mental acuity, improving ones outlook on life, cardiovascular, facilitating
>weight loss, etc. The benefits are way to numerous to list here but are
>easily discovered by those not so biased.er
>
>Given a sport that has a few million practitioners, there would need to be
>deaths on the order of 100,000 deaths per year or more to make a dent in the
>benefit. Instead of the handful of deaths that occur every year (less than
>20), The majority of injuries that occur are bumps and bruises, where those
>injured are back up and riding a day or two later in most cases and those
>that do break something and require more time off the bike are back on in a
>month or two.
>
>I have been an advocate hiker and runner for 40 yrs, an advocate cyclist for
>30, skier for 20, and recently (less than a year) taken up short track speed
>skating. My longest nagging injury came from a backpack trip this summer
>where I hyper extended my knee on a steep descent - didn't stop me from my
>other activities - just needed to baby it as I re strengthened it. My point
>is that I have known hundreds of others like me over the last 40 plus years
>who engage in all sorts of exercise modes with little more than a few bumps
>and bruises - in only a handful of cases (3 to be exact were the injuries
>serious - 2 killed by cars while cycling on the road and one suffered a
>severe skiing accident last year and is now in a wheelchair).
>Statistically, all of these are rare and choosing to stop my various modes
>of sport and hide under my bed, would result (probabilistic that is) in me
>gaining weight, having my good cholesterol declining (as exercise stimulates
>production of good cholesterol), muscle mass decline so that as I age I will
>be more susceptible to falling (see studies in geriatric medicine), heart
>condition will deteriorate, blood pressure may rise, etc. Yeah if you were
>the Surgeon General we would all be fat and I die younger - hmmm, given your
>other views, maybe this is a plot by you to wipe out humans.

As usual, you provide absolutely no scientific evidence to support
your contention, and grossly underestimate the number of injuries and
deaths caused by mountain biking. One DEATH wipes out any possible
benefits from thousands of uninjured mountain bikers. And since there
are dozens of ways of getting aerobic exercise besides mountain
biking, and since mountain biking causes an enormous amount of damage
to wildlife and people, there's absolutely no reason to promote
mountain biking. For someone who claims to be a biologist, your
pushing your personal form of recreation, in spite of the harm to
wildlife, is insane.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:07:40 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Dec 2, 10:53 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:27:01 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Dec 2, 1:23 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:26:48 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Dec 1, 1:06 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:59 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >On Nov 30, 8:27 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:17:53 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >On Nov 30, 7:53 am, Olebiker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Nov 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:53:31 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
>> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >> > >On Nov 28, 1:36 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > >> \Apparently, the health benefits of mountain biking are exaggerated.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> > >Mike,
>>
>> >> >> >> >> > >Did you have the same response about the health benefits of running
>> >> >> >> >> > >when Jim Fixx died?
>>
>> >> >> >> >> > No, I've never claimed any health benefits from running, and I don't
>> >> >> >> >> > know that there IS any net benefit.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> What health benefits do you say were claimed by mountain bikers?
>>
>> >> >> >> >Mike,
>> >> >> >> >Why didn't you respond to my question? What health benefits claims
>> >> >> >> >are you referring to?
>>
>> >> >> >> I did answer you. See above.
>>
>> >> >> >You wrote, "They claim that there is a net health benefit from
>> >> >> >mountain biking. No
>> >> >> >evidence whatsoever."
>>
>> >> >> >That does not answer my question. What claim was made and who made
>> >> >> >it? Who is "they."
>>
>> >> >> I suggest that you try Google.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> >> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> >> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> >> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>>
>> >> >>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande-Hidequoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >I suggest you cite the claims you are referring to. Why won't you?
>>
>> >> Why document what we all know to be true?
>> >> --
>> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>>
>> >>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande-Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >Allow me to quote your original post: "Apparently, the health benefits
>> >of mountain biking are exaggerated."
>>
>> >Are you stating that someone has claimed that mountain biking is the
>> >key to eternal life? If so, who made that claim? Where? When?
>>
>> >Are you stating that someone has claimed that the cardiovascular
>> >fitness derived from the aerobic exercise of mountain biking results
>> >in health benefits? If so, why do you think that one man's death
>> >disproves what medical science knows to be true?
>>
>> >Show me what claim you believe this man's death disputes.
>>
>> This isn't rocket science, but it IS science. You have to look at the
>> NET benefit. If 50 people improve their health, but another 40 have
>> serious injuries and 10 die (insert your own statistics), where is the
>> NET benefit? That represents a net loss. This question can only be
>> answered by good science, NOT loose speculation. Do you get it yet?
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>That's a mighty big "if". The scenario you present does not exist.
>Were talking science here, not conjecture.

Correct. And I have seen ZERO scientific evidence for a NET health
benefit from mountain biking.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On 03 Dec 2007 20:47:48 GMT, Chris <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:U3X3j.16$vB.5@trnddc05:
>
>>
>> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news[email protected]...
>>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:37:01 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:32:05 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 02:48:48 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You poor, sick *******.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously, I care more about mountain bikers' safety than they
>>>>>>> themselves do! YOU are the sick one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>His sport is not what killed him ignorant asshole. Indeed, he had
>>>>>>an unnamed
>>>>>>medical condition that caused his health problem which tok his
>>>>>>life,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fabricating evidence that you don't have again? You have ZERO
>>>>> information. In fact, LESS than zero.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fabricating? Please cite ANY evidence you have that says he died as a
>>>>direct
>>>>result of riding his bike.
>>>
>>> I never said that, liar. Learn to READ, then come back.
>>
>>
>> When I was a kid, society committed people like you to mental
>> institutions solely because a person could not keep up with his own
>> discussion. Lucky for you, society does not commit people to mental
>> hospitals anymore.
>>
>> Your entire premise is that bike riding has adverse health affects. My
>> premise is that the adverse condition(s) that resulted in a heart
>> attack has nothing at all to do with riding a bike.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>>> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>>> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>>
>>> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
>>> are fond of!
>>>
>>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>>
>>
>
>Jeff,
> Please do not respond to this troll. You just add fuel to the fire.

As you are doing, hypocrite. Yes, let's sweep all evidence of harm
from mountain biking under the rug. We mustn't tell the truth, or some
sensitive mountain bikers will get upset.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:10:11 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>
>> Jeff,
>> Please do not respond to this troll. You just add fuel to the fire.
>>
>
>
>Sorry. I haven't got many flaws, but this is one of them. I see his blatant
>lies and half-truths all wrapped in a selfish agenda, and simply can not
>avoid the temptation to point them out.

1. You have never successfully done that.
2. You CAN'T do it.
3. No one cares what you say, including you.
4. If you have an addiction, I suggest that you see a professional.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Beej Jorgensen]

Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>1. You have never successfully done that.
>2. You CAN'T do it.
>3. No one cares what you say, including you.
>4. If you have an addiction, I suggest that you see a professional.

Couldn't have said it better.

-Beej

 

[[email protected]]

According to the US Census statistics for 2006, there were 8.2 million mt.
bikers who rode at least 6 times that year. Based on studies of rode
cyclist which number about 36 million the same year, 5.6 million of those
cyclist rode at least 5000 miles over 110 days (hardcore); if you assume
that roughly the same proportion of the 8.2 million are serious hardcore,
than there are about 1 million hardcore mt bikers and if you add folks who
ride at least 50 days than you probably need to add another 1 to 1.5 million
(the latter is my speculation and quite reasonable) all other numbers are
gov statistics you moron.

Also gov stats report about 700 road cyclist are killed each year by cars
(give or take a few) and you can add another dozen or two on top of that who
die from operator error. You pretty much list all of the mt. bike deaths
plus some that are not such as the motorcyclist a month or so ago, the
latest case where he died in his house (again not speculation but in the
news reports) and we find ourselves dealing with less than 20 deaths a year
attributed to mt. biking. So 1 million hardcore mt. bikers and another 7
million that ride something less than 110 days a year but greater than 6
(again real numbers) and 20 deaths (if I underestimated you idiot then prove
it - and you know you cannot). Your logic is silly one death is one death.
In ecology we have compensatory mortality and additive mortality. Which %
of the individuals would have died early from some other cause like a car
accident (compensatory)? A disproportionate number of the deaths are boys
18 to 25 (now there is a surprise) who seem to be dedicated in finding new
ways to kill themselves (again gov statistics).

Also, you try and shift the debate about what is really your agenda to stop
mt. biking, because you know you lack any case. My argument is specific to
your statement that mt. biking has no net health benefit. Again as noted
above you are a complete idiot and moron - but everyone already knew that.
Mt. biking has a clear net benefit when taken in total for all who engage in
it, that is clear and to argue otherwise simply puts you in the category of
George W. Bush. You would be smart to drop this line of reasoning as you
loose. I have provided you statistics, if you choose to disagree then it is
incumbent on you to provide a credible source that contradicts the numbers
noted above.

How many days a week to they actually let you out?

 

[Chris]

"Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:TN15j.15059$t31.199@trnddc02:

>
> "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>
>> Jeff,
>> Please do not respond to this troll. You just add fuel to the
>> fire.
>>
>
>
> Sorry. I haven't got many flaws, but this is one of them. I see his
> blatant lies and half-truths all wrapped in a selfish agenda, and
> simply can not avoid the temptation to point them out.
>
I know, I feel the same way. He is SO full of **** and it bothers me too.

I do bait ED every once and a while, so I can't be a hypocrite. Well, at
least have fun then.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Olebiker]

On Dec 3, 10:40 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Correct. And I have seen ZERO scientific evidence for a NET health
> benefit from mountain biking.

That's because you are not a scientist and either haven't read the
literature or have failed to comprehend it.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> ...And since there
> are dozens of ways of getting aerobic exercise besides mountain
> biking, and since mountain biking causes an enormous amount of damage
> to wildlife and people, there's absolutely no reason to promote
> mountain biking....

Reason No. 1 to ride your bicycle off road - it annoys Mikey V.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:44:52 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Dec 3, 10:40 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Correct. And I have seen ZERO scientific evidence for a NET health
>> benefit from mountain biking.
>
>That's because you are not a scientist and either haven't read the
>literature or have failed to comprehend it.

I am trained as a scientist, and can recognize science -- when I SEE
some.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 05:14:13 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>According to the US Census statistics for 2006, there were 8.2 million mt.
>bikers who rode at least 6 times that year. Based on studies of rode
>cyclist which number about 36 million the same year, 5.6 million of those
>cyclist rode at least 5000 miles over 110 days (hardcore); if you assume
>that roughly the same proportion of the 8.2 million are serious hardcore,
>than there are about 1 million hardcore mt bikers and if you add folks who
>ride at least 50 days than you probably need to add another 1 to 1.5 million
>(the latter is my speculation and quite reasonable) all other numbers are
>gov statistics you moron.
>
>Also gov stats report about 700 road cyclist are killed each year by cars
>(give or take a few) and you can add another dozen or two on top of that who
>die from operator error. You pretty much list all of the mt. bike deaths
>plus some that are not such as the motorcyclist a month or so ago, the
>latest case where he died in his house (again not speculation but in the
>news reports) and we find ourselves dealing with less than 20 deaths a year
>attributed to mt. biking. So 1 million hardcore mt. bikers and another 7
>million that ride something less than 110 days a year but greater than 6
>(again real numbers) and 20 deaths (if I underestimated you idiot then prove
>it - and you know you cannot). Your logic is silly one death is one death.
>In ecology we have compensatory mortality and additive mortality. Which %
>of the individuals would have died early from some other cause like a car
>accident (compensatory)? A disproportionate number of the deaths are boys
>18 to 25 (now there is a surprise) who seem to be dedicated in finding new
>ways to kill themselves (again gov statistics).
>
>Also, you try and shift the debate about what is really your agenda to stop
>mt. biking, because you know you lack any case.

BS. The proof is at http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.

My argument is specific to
>your statement that mt. biking has no net health benefit.

You deliberately ignored bodily injury and harm to wildlife and other
trail users. The technical term for that is "junk (skewed) science". I
have yet to see any real science from any mountain biking scientists,
but LOTS of junk science like yours.

Again as noted
>above you are a complete idiot and moron - but everyone already knew that.
>Mt. biking has a clear net benefit when taken in total for all who engage in
>it, that is clear and to argue otherwise simply puts you in the category of
>George W. Bush. You would be smart to drop this line of reasoning as you
>loose. I have provided you statistics, if you choose to disagree then it is
>incumbent on you to provide a credible source that contradicts the numbers
>noted above.
>
>How many days a week to they actually let you out?
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Olebiker]

On Dec 5, 1:14 am, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:44:52 -0800 (PST), Olebiker <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 3, 10:40 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Correct. And I have seen ZERO scientific evidence for a NET health
> >> benefit from mountain biking.
>
> >That's because you are not a scientist and either haven't read the
> >literature or have failed to comprehend it.
>
> I am trained as a scientist, and can recognize science -- when I SEE
> some.
> --
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

I suggest you use Google.