Another Mountain Biker Proves It: ALL Mountain Bikers Are Liars



M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
"I'm [sic] regret not being allowed at all in the wilderness".

We all know that mountain bikers ARE allowed in all wilderness areas. Only BIKES are banned. DUH!

Mike

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Michael,

You have an interesting web page. I live in an urban environment with many species of plants in
my small yard. I use a reel mower for maintaining our small portion of lawn. I don't drive to
work. I bike. Not all cyclists are out to trash the wilderness. I do mountainbike- in controlled
areas which are within riding distance of my house. I'm regret not being allowed at all in the
wilderness according to your ideals. We need to preserve more of our planet, but the SUV/
suburban sprawl mentality of our culture does not help.

Sincerely, Dave Krack
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
B

Brett Jaffee

Guest
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "I'm [sic] regret not being allowed at all in the wilderness".
>
> We all know that mountain bikers ARE allowed in all wilderness areas. Only BIKES are banned. DUH!
>
> Mike
>

> Michael, I'm regret not being allowed at all in the wilderness according to your ideals.

Read his quote Mikey...he said "ACCORDING TO YOUR IDEALS." Seems that all you've proven is that you
lied about what he said.

Liar.
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Mike.

there is a habitat somewhere just waiting for you.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:26:46 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike. .

.there is a habitat somewhere just waiting for you.

I know. It's embarrassing, isn't it, that mountain bikers never stop LYING?! That's why you had to
remove the evidence from your post. So here it is again, for anyone who missed it:

At 01:05 PM 2/13/04 -0700, Christopher Hess wrote:

>So, basically, everything would be ok if only everyone did only what you do.

Better, at least. So what?

>Your site is the most arrogant and simple-minded offering of pseudo-science and
bleeding-heart anthropomorphizing in the name of environmentalism I have ever seen.

Thanks for the compliments.

>I hike and ride on endless miles of trail here in Boise that see regular use by
hikers AND bikers and have not been destroyed in the manner you describe in your us-against-them
apocalyptical rantings.

So there's NO erosion? NO animals or plants killed? NO hikers or equestrians driven off the
trails? NO wildlife driven away from resources they need? You are a liar, just like all other
mountain bikers.

> I've done this same thing and seen these same things throughout Texas and
Colorado as well. Where's the destruction? Where the animosity between the species (hikers vs
bikers, as you so often and so miserably define)? Where the malicious intent of one species (the one
against which you promote discrimination) against the other (the only rightful users, ie You)? I
tell ya, I haven't seen it, and I've been hiking and riding, straddling this un-straddlable chasm,
for many a year.

You are lying, obviously. Of course, most of thehikers who don't like being around mountain bikers,
you wouldn't see. They are gone.

>Here's where the problem comes in: The day I decide that my rights and desires
trump those of anyone else, simply because I've convinced myself that this is right. Much like gonzo-
downhillers on heavily used trails are what's wrong with mountain bikers, You are what is wrong with
the environmental movement. You both see only what you want to see and expect all others to heed
your beliefs and momentum. You are no better than those in our current administration who fail to
see any side but their own. Your myopia cripples you, stamping an asterisk on your opinions and
unhinging your convictions. You do more harm than good. Surely you've heard this before? Perhaps
listening would help.

I do listen. But you are wrong. My positions are based on SCIENCE. If you think I am so extreme, why
is my position IDENTICAL to that os Yosemite National Park? We both want bikes restricted to
pavement. Are the park managers extremists?

>And you're wrong, by the way. It IS about getting along.

BS. I have no problem sharing trails with mountain BIKERS. It's only BIKES I don't want on the
trail. You might get more respect, if you didn't constantly
LIE.

> About bikers being respectful and about hikers being accepting. I've done
damage with boots as well as tires. So has anyone who's ever had either between their feet and
nature. I've repaired damage from both, and then some.

So you admit that you do damage, after all. But I have news for you: deal plants and animals don't
"recover", liar.

> (We'll leave hooves out of this discussion.) In almost every case, dirt and
earth prevail. As do manners and tolerance. Always.

>The trails of the foothills network surrounding our fair city are a model of
cooperation and acceptance. Bikers, hikers, runners, equestrians: all use the trails here, most in
more than just one way, and all get along with very very few exceptions.

So you admit that it's not working.

>The only thing that would upset this balance is if someone a bit too zealous, a
bit too Elitist and Exclusionary (much like yourself) came along and told everyone who could and who
couldn't enjoy these trails.

You are LYING again. I have NEVER advocated banning anyone from trails open to hiking.

>I know these words fall on deaf ears. I know your mind is made up with all the
righteousness and sanctimoniousness that one swollen ego and undernourished intellect could allow.
Yet I write anyway. Why? Because it makes me feel better. Because shouting into a void is better
than muttering under my breath. Because yours is a dogma of the most dangerous stripe. Because these
things need to be said.

You would get farther if you would stick to telling the truth, instead of LYING. You are only
helping me ban bikes.

>A bicycle is one of the most efficient, brilliant inventions humans have come
up with.

I agree, and it belongs only on pavement, where it can't do much harm -- as is the policy in
Yosemite National Park.

> We love bicycles, whether on dirt or on pavement, fast or slow, towing a
Burley or conquering a climb. Singletrack is the most sublime manifestation of riding on dirt. We
will not stop riding it.

>Try to stop us.

Your threat is duly noted.

>MAN that felt good.

LYING feels good? I doubt it. At least when you get caught red-handed.

>So sincerely,
Chris Hess

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Mike.

there is a habitat somewhere just waiting for you.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:55:59 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike. .

No, thanks.

and go get laid or something. I'm sure .there is a habitat somewhere just waiting for you.

Meaning?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:55:59 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .Mike. .

>
> No, thanks.
>

Wow!! He talks.

> and go get laid or something. I'm sure .there is a habitat somewhere just waiting for you.
>
> Meaning?

That if you were really serious in creating those wildlife habitats and getting rid of
Mountainbikers you wouldn't be wasting your time in these NGs, but put your efforts were they count.
The only conclusion I can make out of this is that you are not serious at all and just out to
irritate people. Getting laid may mellow you out a bit. Some get irritated of course, especially in
the beginning, but you've been at it so long now that you're more of an entertaining clown than
anything else. Is that what you want to be?

So if you're really serious about creating those wildlife habitats.

you. Because every second that you spend here, where nobody listens to you, may mean another square
inch of asphalt poured out on some wildlife habitat, that could have been.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:15:42 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:55:59 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .>
<[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .Mike. .> .

.> .> No, thanks. .> . .Wow!! He talks. . .> and go get laid or something. I'm sure .> .there is a
habitat somewhere just waiting for you. .> .> Meaning? . .That if you were really serious in
creating those wildlife habitats and .getting rid of Mountainbikers you wouldn't be wasting your
time in these .NGs, but put your efforts were they count. The only conclusion I can make .out of
this is that you are not serious at all and just out to irritate .people. Getting laid may mellow
you out a bit. .Some get irritated of course, especially in the beginning, but you've been .at it so
long now that you're more of an entertaining clown than anything .else. Is that what you want to be?
. .So if you're really serious about creating those wildlife habitats.

.you. Because every second that you spend here, where nobody listens to you, .may mean another
square inch of asphalt poured out on some wildlife habitat, .that could have been.

Education IS serious work. And you could use some. The fact that you want to silence me is proof
that I am getting through: you recognize that I am a threat to your putrid way of life.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
B

Brett Jaffee

Guest
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in

>The fact that you want to silence me is proof that I am getting through: you recognize that I am a
>threat to your putrid way of life.

Funny, and I always thought we were a threat to your putrid way of life.
 
P

Peter H

Guest
Per Elmsäter wrote:

>re more of an entertaining clown than anything else.
>
Used to be entertaining & clown; the repetition, name-calling, etc. has become so tedious that it's
tipping more to clown than entertainment.

Pete H

--
A person is free only in the freedom of other persons.
W. Berry
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Mike Vandeman wrote:
> Education IS serious work. And you could use some. The fact that you want to silence me is proof
> that I am getting through: you recognize that I am a threat to your putrid way of life.

I'm sorry Mike. You are making more out of yourself than there is. I don't especially wan't to
silence you. I'm just trying to help you get some better response for the effort you put in. BTW
where I live we don't have to create any wildlife habitats 'cause there's plenty enough room for
humans and wildlife without banning one or the other.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:14:41 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> Education IS serious work. And you could use some. The fact that you .>
want to silence me is proof that I am getting through: you recognize .> that I am a threat to your
putrid way of life. . .I'm sorry Mike. You are making more out of yourself than there is. I don't
.especially wan't to silence you.

So who said "shut up"? Someone else? Liar.

I'm just trying to help you get some better .response for the effort you put in. .BTW where I live
we don't have to create any wildlife habitats 'cause .there's plenty enough room for humans and
wildlife without banning one or .the other.

That has never been true, anywhere in the world. Thanks for demonstrating your ignorance
about wildlife.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Mike Vandeman wrote:
> So who said "shut up"? Someone else? Liar.
>
There is a big difference between trying to silence somebody and asking them to shutup. But I
suppose you'd never understand that.

> That has never been true, anywhere in the world. Thanks for demonstrating your ignorance about
> wildlife.

Why are you thanking me for demonstrating my ignorance. Oughtn't it to be the other way around. Oh
yes I forgot. You aren't really out to create any wildlife habitats. You're just out to irritate
people and try to win points in debates. So what's the score?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
D

David Wood

Guest
I'm still maintaining my "pure human habitat". Other species may enter but only with my permission.
A spider attempted unauthorized entry recently and was recycled in an ecologically sound manner.