Another poll: best TdF climber
- Thread starter Tuschinski
- Start date
I can't go back to video to prove it, but I seem to remember Pantani really swinging the bike back and forth a lot more than Armstrong, and really dancing on the pedals when he climbed. Armstrong seems a bit more straight ahead in my mind. Not sure how accurate that is, but that's how I remember it.gntlmn said:
Pantani deserves to be on the list for still holding the fastest ascent of The Alpe.Lance's climbing ability is there for all to see.
Virenque is a charade.
My vote would go to one of the old guys who climbed on bikes weighing a damn sight more than they do today and when the Tour was overall much more brutal.
They really were the Kings of Pain in those days (no super-duper synthetic drugs to take then either)
Virenque is a charade.
My vote would go to one of the old guys who climbed on bikes weighing a damn sight more than they do today and when the Tour was overall much more brutal.
They really were the Kings of Pain in those days (no super-duper synthetic drugs to take then either)
well you certainly have great climbers on the list. But the best must be Pantani. Did no one notice that he has times on the climb of the Alpe de Huez that are records. These times at the end of 190 km stages hold up even this year, where in a chrono climb of just the mountain could not produce a time better. Begs the question if the stage was designed especially to remove him from the record books? Class is class. Certainly the record will fall one day as they all do. Better training, nutritional discoveries, science discoveries, bicycle improvements, not to mention doping.
Perhaps you did not notice the autopsy results of Pantani and the comments of a Doctor Fortuni (I believe that was his name) that he declared that he had expected to see a damaged bone marrow because of all the reports and accusations of abuse by the climber. Yet to his suprise the bone marrrow was completely normal. When pressed further he states that use of EPO for any extended period will leave definite irreversible traces, of which there are none. This report was not released by the major papers in Italy because of the scandal of self reflection it would cause. Pantani was destroyed because sport is secondary to betting in italy. It is the most scandalous of situations. You can see it over the years with soccer game fixing, that continue to this day.sopas said:
In 1999 Pantani was 10 times better than 1998 when they stopped his giro. A giro that was all but in the bag. It was the first time betting was allowed on the giro di italia. Everyone was betting on Pantani, the betting mafia gained 500 million todays euro by falsifying test results. And since Pantani did not roll over like a good boy and continued to proclaim his innocence he was subsequently destroyed in the papers, and a continuous barage of suspensions, accusations, and pending tribunals that were all farces. Testimonies have leaked out that the cyclists knew something was up the evening before the supposed failed hematocrit (blood density test) reporters were calling the Mercatone team to ask if it was true that Pantani would not start the next day? Testimonies have leaked that in the jails they knew about the betting and the impending suspension of the maglia rosa. An army of reporters had assembled at that hotel the next day to be there at the release of the results (they already knew of course the results)
Cycling will never know what would have happened with Pantani against Armstrong in 1999 and subsequently. And fans were certainly was cheated of a great rivalry that we got only a taste of in 2000 TdF, with an already battered, depressed, but defiant Pantani
gntlmn said:
1839-1842.
To be more clear about drugs, prior to the 1980s there was no EPO or HGH available to athletes. Prior to the late 1940's there were no anabolic steroids available.
We're talking stimulants and strychnine for the old school, which compared to today's array of synthetic drugs are just laughably underpowered and dangerous.
winnezele said:
All you have to do is look at Armstrong's record on the big mountain stages. Let's do the tally: mountaintop stage wins at: Sestrierre, Alpe d'Huez (twice), Chamrousse, La Mongie, Plateau de Beille (twice), etc. Not to mention very commanding performances of Hautacam, Ventoux (several times), Les Deux Alpes, Alpe d'Huez some more, and so on.
Is he the best TdT climber of all time? heck no! I rate Pantani, van Impe and Bahamontes above him, at the very least. But anyone who doesn't acknowledge his place on the list of the best ever is clueless.
-Matt
I agree with you 100% allezkmiec, however, I don't believe that Mr. Tuschinski should have put Pantani in italics, unless he means to imply the cleanest of all the riders listed, or simply superhuman (in either case therefore not to be compared fairly with the others on the list)allezkmiec said:
The climber is only as good as the climb and the best climb is Alpe D'Huez.
The greatest master of that mountain is Il Pirata - Marco Pantani.
The greatest master of that mountain is Il Pirata - Marco Pantani.
The climber debate continues !
Pantani's climbing ability is not in doubt.
I was speaking to someone several years ago and he agreed that Pantani was the greatest climber of this generation.
But this ex-pro made the point, that the likes of Bahamontes, Gaul had tougher
conditions to contend with when climbing and he thought that they were as good as Marco.
For me Marco was superb - I was forunate to be at the 1995 TDF at Alp D'Huez and Guize Niege, and both displays by Pantani were electirc. Electric.
I got Marco's autograph when Le Tour was in Dublin in 1998, and I laughed when he won that years TDF.
To see him coming in, 163rd, in the prologue in Dublin and to see him on top of the podium in Paris was typical of the man.
I miss Marco.
One other great, great climber and the best British rider ever in my view - Robert Millar from Scotland.
Superb climber as well.
Pantani's climbing ability is not in doubt.
I was speaking to someone several years ago and he agreed that Pantani was the greatest climber of this generation.
But this ex-pro made the point, that the likes of Bahamontes, Gaul had tougher
conditions to contend with when climbing and he thought that they were as good as Marco.
For me Marco was superb - I was forunate to be at the 1995 TDF at Alp D'Huez and Guize Niege, and both displays by Pantani were electirc. Electric.
I got Marco's autograph when Le Tour was in Dublin in 1998, and I laughed when he won that years TDF.
To see him coming in, 163rd, in the prologue in Dublin and to see him on top of the podium in Paris was typical of the man.
I miss Marco.
One other great, great climber and the best British rider ever in my view - Robert Millar from Scotland.
Superb climber as well.
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