Another request for a recommendation!

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Alex Veitch, Jun 4, 2003.

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  1. In message <[email protected]>, Peter Clinch
    <[email protected]> writes
    >Michael MacClancy wrote:
    >
    >> Why aren't 'sensible' bikes with dynamos, racks, skirt guards, hub gears etc. more common in the
    >> UK when they're so popular abroad? Perhaps it's something to do with legislation (compulsory
    >> dynamos in Germany until recently?), the disintegration of the UK cycle industry (Sturmey Archer
    >> hub gears?) or the need of the cycle business to make money.
    >
    >Do you think that bike shops in the Netherlands don't make money, then?

    Snipped

    I don't really 'think' anything. I only meant to suggest some reasons, probably wrong ones but meant
    to keep the discussion rolling.

    My experience of Holland is that many people ride poorly maintained old bikes and I doubt that the
    shops make the same sort of money they would if people changed their bikes more frequently.

    Perhaps we _are_ more enlightened than people elsewhere. Perhaps we think that people look daft
    riding round on Dutch city bikes and that the bikes are heavy and inefficient. ;-)

    >> money out of Peter Clinch because he has three bikes simultaneously. It makes money out of other
    >> people because it persuades them that they need to replace their bikes on a regular basis and
    >> provides a constantly changing and developing and varied range of fashionable products to allow
    >> them to do so. People consume things and consume bikes in the same way as everything else.
    >

    Snipped

    >Many people could do the same, but I think it's probably the case that the limited cycling culture
    >of the UK

    I don't see that it's more limited than elsewhere, at least in the sense that people elsewhere
    probably don't normally have more than 1 bike at any one time either. I would agree that it's
    limited in other senses but then Germans, Belgians, French, Italians all love their cars too.
    Holland is the only European place I know with what I would really describe as a cycling culture.

    >means that people think of bikes as something you have either 1 or none of.

    .... And I was suggesting they may well own a series of bikes over the years rather than keeping
    hold of the same one when replacement is not necessary from a functional point of view..
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     


  2. Mads Hilberg

    Mads Hilberg Guest

    > > Are you saying I shouldn't have ordered the Meks AC upgrade for my new StreetMachine? ;-)
    >
    > Nothing of the sort. From the bentrideronline review and word from Kinetics, the Meks is
    > altogether better than the Ballistic: fit it, use it, end of story. But spending time
    > fiddling with the preload every time the road surface changes is probably going to be a waste
    > of your time...

    Now that a Meks Carbon AII is standard the choice seemed less clear cut - noone has reviewed that
    one so it was hard to know if the AC is significantly better. I ordered it nonetheless (from
    Kinetics) and look forward to trying it out when I receive the bike in a little over 2 weeks.

    Mads
     
  3. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    > Well, a brief follow up. Yesterday I was recommended someone who could bring the Galaxy back to
    > life, and its currently being attended to.

    Which is what I would have suggested if I hadn't been trying to avoid the MTB/Hybrid flamewar :)

    I rate the Galaxy very highly as an all-round kind of bike. If you want to ride on rough trails get
    a cheap second-hand rigid MTB for Not Much Money(TM) and use the Galaxy for everyday riding. It's a
    fine bike.

    > First question: can I just upgrade the levers? Second question: can I upgrade the levers for a bar
    > end shift / combined brake shifter?

    Yes, and yes. You can get indexed downtube shifters, or you can put a cable stop where the existing
    shifters are and fit indexed bar-ends. Flight-deck shifters are maybe a little more difficult as
    you may be restricted in your choices by the front mech and brakes you have, and in any case I
    prefer bar-ends on a tourer because if the indexing goes out you can switch to friction and carry
    on. I changed my old tourer to bar-ends a while back and have never regretted it, the shifting is
    superbly accurate.

    You can even put flat bars on a Galaxy and make it into a hybrid if you want. Oops! Flameproof
    suit on...

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.
     
  4. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Michael MacClancy wrote:

    > My experience of Holland is that many people ride poorly maintained old bikes and I doubt that the
    > shops make the same sort of money they would if people changed their bikes more frequently.

    They do that in the UK too, but I think it's more common that rather than change old bikes they just
    park them in the back of the garage and don't cycle at all, or maybe once or twice each summer.

    > Perhaps we _are_ more enlightened than people elsewhere. Perhaps we think that people look daft
    > riding round on Dutch city bikes and that the bikes are heavy and inefficient. ;-)

    People looked daft wearing flares a few years ago but now they're hip and trendy again. In time
    they'll be naff again. If people disliked weight and inefficiency they'd not be buying bikes for
    general urban use with heavy, inefficient suspension systems, but they are. What's so inefficient
    about a Dutch roadster, btw?

    > I don't see that it's more limited than elsewhere, at least in the sense that people elsewhere
    > probably don't normally have more than 1 bike at any one time either. I would agree that it's
    > limited in other senses but then Germans, Belgians, French, Italians all love their cars too.
    > Holland is the only European place I know with what I would really describe as a cycling culture.

    AFAICT there is far more of a cycling culture in most of Northern /Central Europe countries than
    there is here. Simply put, cycling is seen as an unremarkable way for typical people to get from A
    to B when A and B aren't far apart, while here it's seen that you go by car unless you can't.

    > .... And I was suggesting they may well own a series of bikes over the years rather than keeping
    > hold of the same one when replacement is not necessary from a functional point of view..

    How many people do you know who've done that who don't see themselves as mountain bikers (or indeed
    keen cyclists rather than just Normal People)? I'm drawing a blank.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  5. In message <[email protected]>, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email protected]> writes
    >You can even put flat bars on a Galaxy and make it into a hybrid if you want. Oops! Flameproof
    >suit on...

    That was my conclusion too although I didn't know if it would be possible. Also, the OP did say that
    the Galaxy had been in a damp place for a while and the LBS's comment about it not being worth
    repairing suggested to me that it must be a pile of rust.

    I'd suggest not buying the MTB until you've tested the extent to which the restored (and perhaps
    converted) Galaxy meets your requirements.
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  6. In message <[email protected]>, Peter Clinch
    <[email protected]> writes
    >> .... And I was suggesting they may well own a series of bikes over the years rather than keeping
    >> hold of the same one when replacement is not necessary from a functional point of view..
    >
    >How many people do you know who've done that who don't see themselves as mountain bikers (or indeed
    >keen cyclists rather than just Normal People)? I'm drawing a blank.

    Are we talking at cross purposes? Until recently I was one of these people and I think that I wasn't
    atypical of a Normal Person. My first bike was a three speed city bike. I got rid of that and, some
    years later, bought a rigid MTB for use around college. I replaced this with another rigid MTB that
    I've been riding everywhere. I'd say all of these have been utility bikes and I've had serial
    relationships with them. I wouldn't class myself as a mountain biker, I'm more the sort of person
    who rides a mountain bike, sometimes up mountains but not, generally, on single trails. I've
    recently bought a racer for use in multisport events so I have two bikes. Had I not developed the
    interest in multisport and needed a suitable machine I guess my next purchase would have been
    another MTB (or a hybrid) to replace the last MTB. This is what I mean. I've known loads of Normal
    People who buy bikes in this manner. I don't think Normal People own more than one bike at a time.
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  7. Alex Veitch

    Alex Veitch Guest

    On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:41:45 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Well, a brief follow up. Yesterday I was recommended someone who could bring the Galaxy back to
    >> life, and its currently being attended to.
    >
    >Which is what I would have suggested if I hadn't been trying to avoid the MTB/Hybrid flamewar :)
    >
    >I rate the Galaxy very highly as an all-round kind of bike. If you want to ride on rough trails get
    >a cheap second-hand rigid MTB for Not Much Money(TM) and use the Galaxy for everyday riding. It's a
    >fine bike.
    >
    >> First question: can I just upgrade the levers? Second question: can I upgrade the levers for a
    >> bar end shift / combined brake shifter?
    >
    >Yes, and yes. You can get indexed downtube shifters, or you can put a cable stop where the existing
    >shifters are and fit indexed bar-ends. Flight-deck shifters are maybe a little more difficult as
    >you may be restricted in your choices by the front mech and brakes you have, and in any case I
    >prefer bar-ends on a tourer because if the indexing goes out you can switch to friction and carry
    >on. I changed my old tourer to bar-ends a while back and have never regretted it, the shifting is
    >superbly accurate.

    I'll keep the bars as they are, but I think that indexed bar end shifters would be the best bet.
    Any recommendations on a make / model based on your own experience?

    Cheers Alex
    --
    Alex Veitch
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "Alex Veitch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > I'll keep the bars as they are, but I think that indexed bar end shifters would be the best bet.
    > Any recommendations on a make / model based on your own experience?

    There's only really one choice - the shimano ones. (yes, there are probably campag ones too). 40sq
    from your friendly LBS.

    But here's the can of worms:

    The new ones are 9 speed. You may be able to get some 7/8 speed ones from SJSC (actually 8 speed).

    The question now is what do you have on your bike at the moment? 6 speed freewheel? In which case 8
    speed may work (ignoring 2 clicks) but I couldn't say for sure. If it doesn't work you're looking at
    a new rear hub/cassette (ie wheel), and possibly respacing the back triangle.

    cheers, clive
     
  9. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Michael MacClancy wrote:
    >
    > Are we talking at cross purposes?

    Entirely possible. IME people buy a bike and basically keep it until it's unrideable (either
    from being ridden a great deal or hardly ridden at all, crashed or vandalised beyond simple
    repair, or stolen).

    Having said that, an upgrade from a budegt/second hand starter is often on the cards, but that's
    usually just the once.

    IYE things work differently, we're both on what we see plus anecdotes so I don't think we can go
    much further...

    > I don't think Normal People own more than one bike at a time.

    Though we do agree there. The extent to which a "do anything" approach is right there depends on the
    extent to which the Normal Person wants to do anything. Most MTBs I see are remarkably mud-free...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  10. Alex Veitch

    Alex Veitch Guest

    On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:38:23 +0100, "Clive George"

    >"Alex Veitch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> I'll keep the bars as they are, but I think that indexed bar end shifters would be the best bet.
    >> Any recommendations on a make / model based on your own experience?
    >
    >There's only really one choice - the shimano ones. (yes, there are probably campag ones too). 40sq
    >from your friendly LBS.
    >
    >But here's the can of worms:
    >
    >The new ones are 9 speed. You may be able to get some 7/8 speed ones from SJSC (actually 8 speed).
    >
    >The question now is what do you have on your bike at the moment? 6 speed freewheel? In which case 8
    >speed may work (ignoring 2 clicks) but I couldn't say for sure. If it doesn't work you're looking
    >at a new rear hub/cassette (ie wheel), and possibly respacing the back triangle.

    Yes, its a 6 speed freewheel. The rear gear unit (excuse incorrect terminology) is a Suntour of
    some type. The Shimano set works as a friction change so I could try it and see - it will work in
    some form or other, and if not as an indexed system then I can always change other components at a
    later date.

    Alex
    --
    Alex Veitch
     
  11. David Nutter

    David Nutter Guest

    [Bar end shifters]

    > The question now is what do you have on your bike at the moment? 6 speed freewheel? In which case
    > 8 speed may work (ignoring 2 clicks) but I couldn't say for sure. If it doesn't work you're
    > looking at a new rear hub/cassette (ie wheel), and possibly respacing the back triangle.

    Older bar-ends and stem mount shifters tend to pop up on eBay of course. I'm not sure whether 6
    speed would be indexed or not. Perhaps the OP's LBS has a bits box with some in?

    Another option is a simple and cheap 6spd thumbshifter unit from one of the lower-end shimano ranges
    (Tourney is still six speed I think) which is really designed for flat-bar use but could be attached
    to the Galaxy's handlebars with a bit of fiddling.

    Regards,

    -david
     
  12. James Hodson

    James Hodson Guest

    On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:21:47 +0100, Peter Clinch
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >You can't go too far wrong with the Usual Suspects like Specialized, Giant, Trek etc. etc. as long
    >as you avoid gimmicky stuff at the bottom end. Given the competitiveness of the market you'll get
    >a good value machine where you get what it says on the tin. As with more utilitarian machinery
    >less features generally translates to what you do get using higher spec kit, so a full suspension
    >bike at this price level will very probably be outperformed (and outlasted) by something lighter
    >and simpler. Something like a Specialized Hardrock should do the business (though by no means your
    >only choice).
    >

    Hi Pete

    I'm not sure when next year's bike models will be introduced (September?) but, IIRC, from looking at
    their ads. in various mags., Evans cycles seem to have a reasonably good selection of "last years"
    bikes for reasonable prices. They do appear to stock bikes made by all the usual suspects.

    I've never shopped at Evans myself so cannot speak for their quality of service.

    James

    --
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Dscf0632.jpg
     
  13. James Hodson

    James Hodson Guest

    On 4 Jun 2003 15:46:15 GMT, "Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Mads Hilberg <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >: MTB: external gears Hybrid: internal hub gears, chain guard
    >
    >Language confusion here I think.
    >
    >What you are calling a "hybrid" would be called a "town bike" in the UK.
    >
    >For what we would call a hybrid, think MTB but with 700C wheels. May or may not have front
    >suspension, may or may not have mudguards. Pretty much always standard deriuller gears.
    >

    And to add to the confusion, Arthur, Giant does its OCR (I think) range. IIRC, they're essentially
    "road bikes" but with flat bars and MTB style shifters and brake levers.

    James

    --
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Dscf0632.jpg
     
  14. James Hodson

    James Hodson Guest

    On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:20:45 +0100, Michael MacClancy <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Why aren't 'sensible' bikes with dynamos, racks, skirt guards, hub gears etc. more common in the UK
    >when they're so popular abroad? Perhaps it's something to do with legislation (compulsory dynamos
    >in Germany until recently?), the disintegration of the UK cycle industry (Sturmey Archer hub
    >gears?) or the need of the cycle business to make money.
    >

    Hi Michael

    I recall reading an old Trek catalogue several years ago. There were qute a few bikes equipped in
    the way you describe. AFAIK, each and every one had an asterix next to the specs. The asterix lead
    one to a line at the foot of the page; it stated: "Not available in the UK".

    Presumably Trek doesn't sell its bikes just for love so I'd guess that they don't believe there is a
    large enough market in this country for cycles with dynamos, racks, skirt guards, hub gears etc.

    James

    --
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Dscf0632.jpg
     
  15. In message <[email protected]>, James Hodson
    <[email protected]> writes
    >On 4 Jun 2003 15:46:15 GMT, "Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Mads Hilberg <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>: MTB: external gears Hybrid: internal hub gears, chain guard
    >>
    >>Language confusion here I think.
    >>
    >>What you are calling a "hybrid" would be called a "town bike" in the UK.
    >>
    >>For what we would call a hybrid, think MTB but with 700C wheels. May or may not have front
    >>suspension, may or may not have mudguards. Pretty much always standard deriuller gears.
    >>
    >
    >And to add to the confusion, Arthur, Giant does its OCR (I think) range. IIRC, they're essentially
    >"road bikes" but with flat bars and MTB style shifters and brake levers.
    >
    Oh, don't make it more confusing than it needs to be. What you're describing is the Giant FCR. The
    OCR has dropped bars as does the TCR. But Giant isn't the only manufacturer of something like an FCR
    by a long way.
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  16. In message <[email protected]>, James Hodson
    <[email protected]> writes
    >On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:20:45 +0100, Michael MacClancy <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Why aren't 'sensible' bikes with dynamos, racks, skirt guards, hub gears etc. more common in the
    >>UK when they're so popular abroad? Perhaps it's something to do with legislation (compulsory
    >>dynamos in Germany until recently?), the disintegration of the UK cycle industry (Sturmey Archer
    >>hub gears?) or the need of the cycle business to make money.
    >>
    >
    >Hi Michael
    >
    >I recall reading an old Trek catalogue several years ago. There were qute a few bikes equipped in
    >the way you describe. AFAIK, each and every one had an asterix next to the specs. The asterix lead
    >one to a line at the foot of the page; it stated: "Not available in the UK".
    >
    >Presumably Trek doesn't sell its bikes just for love so I'd guess that they don't believe there is
    >a large enough market in this country for cycles with dynamos, racks, skirt guards, hub gears etc.
    >

    Still the case, James. There's a whole range of leisure bikes that's only available in the Benelux.
    The top of the range model has full suspension. See link below:
    http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2003/citybike/l500e.jsp

    Can't say that I regret their unavailability in the UK. ;-)

    Several of the T-series are only available in Germany, Austria and Switzerland (see same site)
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  17. James Hodson

    James Hodson Guest

    On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:12:30 +0100, Michael MacClancy <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Oh, don't make it more confusing than it needs to be. What you're describing is the Giant FCR. The
    >OCR has dropped bars as does the TCR. But Giant isn't the only manufacturer of something like an
    >FCR by a long way.

    Sorry, Michael, FCR is what I meant. I guess I should've looked at me catalogue!

    I'm in no doubt that you are correct but Giant is the only company I'm aware of who makes these
    sort of bikes.

    Anyway, isn't confusion what NGs are all about? ;-)

    James

    --
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Dscf0632.jpg
     
  18. James Hodson

    James Hodson Guest

    On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:24:45 +0100, Michael MacClancy <[email protected]> wrote:
    >In message <[email protected]>, James Hodson
    ><[email protected]> writes

    >>I recall reading an old Trek catalogue several years ago. There were qute a few bikes equipped in
    >>the way you describe. AFAIK, each and every one had an asterix next to the specs. The asterix lead
    >>one to a line at the foot of the page; it stated: "Not available in the UK".
    >>
    >>Presumably Trek doesn't sell its bikes just for love so I'd guess that they don't believe there is
    >>a large enough market in this country for cycles with dynamos, racks, skirt guards, hub gears etc.
    >
    >Still the case, James. There's a whole range of leisure bikes that's only available in the Benelux.
    >The top of the range model has full suspension. See link below:
    >http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2003/citybike/l500e.jsp
    >
    >Can't say that I regret their unavailability in the UK. ;-)
    >

    Hi Michael

    They're the beasties. To be honest, Michael, I doubt I'd buy one myself but I do appreciate their
    plus points. I live on the south coast of England - it's very flat here abouts - and, to be honest,
    bikes similar to those sold by Trek would be pretty handy for day-in-day-out use.

    Do you know why they're available only in Beneluxland? (Beneluxland -- sounds like a manufacturer of
    kitchen power utensils!) Is it just because of the money side of things, as I've mentioned, or is
    there an ulterior motive by either the EU and/or the Americans? ;-)

    James

    --
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Dscf0632.jpg
     
  19. "A Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1fw100m.1gekkeyjdwv6kN%[email protected]...
    > Alex Veitch <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >The local bike shop can repair it for £50 plus parts, but they have have already warned me its
    > >likely to be better to get a new bike.
    >
    > Definite.If it is 12 years old, the tyres and tubes may be perished as well,and are best changed
    > anyway, so add on another £30+.If it has 27" wheels, then again it is another excuse to get rid of
    > it.( 27"tyres are still available from some places,but not many)
    > >
    > > I don't agree with this. The Galaxy is basically a good bike and you
    can still get 27 inch tyres or even repalce the wheels. Bar end shifters are easy to fit and
    relatively cheap. I have a new Galaxy but much prefer my 20 year old one. As you are in Sheffield
    have a word with Mark at A E Butterworth cycles on Abbeydale Road.

    Cliff Griffiths
     
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