Another sizing question - Hybrids / Touring

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Bob, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Yet another in my series of questions attempting to understand more
    recent bike trends - in this case the use of Hybrids or touring bar
    based bikes as opposed to traditional drop or randonneur drop.

    Why choose a hybrid ? Is it more comfortable in any particular set of
    circumstances than riding drops in upright touring position or
    randonneur drops ? (I realize that's an opinion question).

    Would a hybrid rider normally shoot for a shorter top tube and shorter
    stem reach than a drop rider in an attempt to make the riding position
    more upright ? Or does this come down to a use decision on whether
    they want to be able to cut wind resistance vs. just have a
    "comfortable" ride?
     
    Tags:


  2. landotter

    landotter Guest

    Seems to be mainly a perception issue. People assume that all drop bar
    bikes envolve a hunched over position. I find stricly flat bar bikes to
    be very uncomfortable for distance with only one hand position. Add bar
    ends, and they're tolerable. Add trekking bars, and you have a bikes
    that's just as comfy as a drop bar model, with a nice wide hand
    position for leverage when climbing.

    I'm thinking about getting a set for the city bike, though I'm having
    issues with the fact that they're just plain goofy looking:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETWGTA/104-8770707-3234328?v=glance&n=3375251

    afaik, the open ends are towards the rider and are where you mount the
    shifter/brake.
     
  3. Tosspot

    Tosspot Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > Seems to be mainly a perception issue. People assume that all drop bar
    > bikes envolve a hunched over position. I find stricly flat bar bikes to
    > be very uncomfortable for distance with only one hand position. Add bar
    > ends, and they're tolerable. Add trekking bars, and you have a bikes
    > that's just as comfy as a drop bar model, with a nice wide hand
    > position for leverage when climbing.
    >
    > I'm thinking about getting a set for the city bike, though I'm having
    > issues with the fact that they're just plain goofy looking:
    >
    > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETWGTA/104-8770707-3234328?v=glance&n=3375251
    >
    > afaik, the open ends are towards the rider and are where you mount the
    > shifter/brake.


    You're correct in the mounting, although I see no real reason you
    couldn't do it the other way. Very comfortable, I use them on a city
    bike and like them. That's all really. Btw, goofy is in the eye of the
    beholder :)
     
  4. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    Bob wrote:
    > Yet another in my series of questions attempting to understand more
    > recent bike trends - in this case the use of Hybrids or touring bar
    > based bikes as opposed to traditional drop or randonneur drop.
    >


    Who says this is a trend? What's a "touring bar"?
     
  5. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > Seems to be mainly a perception issue. People assume that all drop bar
    > bikes envolve a hunched over position. I find stricly flat bar bikes to
    > be very uncomfortable for distance with only one hand position. Add bar
    > ends, and they're tolerable. Add trekking bars, and you have a bikes
    > that's just as comfy as a drop bar model, with a nice wide hand
    > position for leverage when climbing.
    >
    > I'm thinking about getting a set for the city bike, though I'm having
    > issues with the fact that they're just plain goofy looking:
    >
    > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETWGTA/104-8770707-3234328?v=glance&n=3375251
    >
    > afaik, the open ends are towards the rider and are where you mount the
    > shifter/brake.
    >


    I don't get that shape at all. I have a pair of Scott AT-3's on my fixer
    : <http://sheldonbrown.com/scott.html> -- similar concept, but totally
    different shape.
     
  6. landotter

    landotter Guest

    Peter Cole wrote:
    > landotter wrote:
    > > Seems to be mainly a perception issue. People assume that all drop bar
    > > bikes envolve a hunched over position. I find stricly flat bar bikes to
    > > be very uncomfortable for distance with only one hand position. Add bar
    > > ends, and they're tolerable. Add trekking bars, and you have a bikes
    > > that's just as comfy as a drop bar model, with a nice wide hand
    > > position for leverage when climbing.
    > >
    > > I'm thinking about getting a set for the city bike, though I'm having
    > > issues with the fact that they're just plain goofy looking:
    > >
    > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETWGTA/104-8770707-3234328?v=glance&n=3375251
    > >
    > > afaik, the open ends are towards the rider and are where you mount the
    > > shifter/brake.
    > >

    >
    > I don't get that shape at all.


    With my elite image manipulation skills, you will get the shape.

    (warning, professional level graphics below)

    http://static.flickr.com/46/118227997_412a32fe9b_o.png
     
  7. landotter

    landotter Guest

    Peter Cole wrote:
    > Bob wrote:
    > > Yet another in my series of questions attempting to understand more
    > > recent bike trends - in this case the use of Hybrids or touring bar
    > > based bikes as opposed to traditional drop or randonneur drop.
    > >

    >
    > Who says this is a trend?


    The fact that every bike shop in my area has a section for "flat bar
    road bikes" speaks to this trend.

    Again, I think they're a stupid idea to begin with and just pander to
    misperception, but they're here to stay.

    I've got nothing against straight bars, I like them on city bikes for
    short distances, but on road bikes? Ugh.
     
  8. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > Peter Cole wrote:
    >> landotter wrote:
    >>> Seems to be mainly a perception issue. People assume that all drop bar
    >>> bikes envolve a hunched over position. I find stricly flat bar bikes to
    >>> be very uncomfortable for distance with only one hand position. Add bar
    >>> ends, and they're tolerable. Add trekking bars, and you have a bikes
    >>> that's just as comfy as a drop bar model, with a nice wide hand
    >>> position for leverage when climbing.
    >>>
    >>> I'm thinking about getting a set for the city bike, though I'm having
    >>> issues with the fact that they're just plain goofy looking:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETWGTA/104-8770707-3234328?v=glance&n=3375251
    >>>
    >>> afaik, the open ends are towards the rider and are where you mount the
    >>> shifter/brake.
    >>>

    >> I don't get that shape at all.

    >
    > With my elite image manipulation skills, you will get the shape.
    >
    > (warning, professional level graphics below)
    >
    > http://static.flickr.com/46/118227997_412a32fe9b_o.png
    >


    I understand the shape (although it was unclear which way was "front"),
    it is the "utility" of the shape I don't get. Why bring your hands back
    to the steer tube? How do you climb out of the saddle without hitting
    your knees? Sorry, the shape just doesn't make any sense to me.
     
  9. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > Peter Cole wrote:
    >> Bob wrote:
    >>> Yet another in my series of questions attempting to understand more
    >>> recent bike trends - in this case the use of Hybrids or touring bar
    >>> based bikes as opposed to traditional drop or randonneur drop.
    >>>

    >> Who says this is a trend?

    >
    > The fact that every bike shop in my area has a section for "flat bar
    > road bikes" speaks to this trend.
    >
    > Again, I think they're a stupid idea to begin with and just pander to
    > misperception, but they're here to stay.
    >
    > I've got nothing against straight bars, I like them on city bikes for
    > short distances, but on road bikes? Ugh.
    >


    One of the great things about flat bars on road bikes is that you can
    use MTB brifters which are much cheaper than their road counterparts. I
    do reasonably long distances on my bike with the AT-3 bars and it's not
    bad. I find the "forward & up" extensions on flat bars to be really nice
    for climbing out of the saddle, not so useful for just riding along.
     
  10. landotter

    landotter Guest

    Peter Cole wrote:
    > landotter wrote:


    > > http://static.flickr.com/46/118227997_412a32fe9b_o.png
    > >

    >
    > I understand the shape (although it was unclear which way was "front"),
    > it is the "utility" of the shape I don't get. Why bring your hands back
    > to the steer tube?


    To get more upright for a change of pace.

    >How do you climb out of the saddle without hitting
    > your knees?


    set teh bar up properly. :p It could be a potential problem with some
    set ups, but I wouldn't put those bars on any bike I spend a lot of
    time out of the saddle. Good for a ubility bike I reckon.

    >Sorry, the shape just doesn't make any sense to me.


    Makes sense to a huge number of Brits, Aussies, and Europeans where
    variants have been popular on touring or "trekking" bikes for years.
    Often called "butterfly bars" unless my UK contacts are yankin' my
    chain.

    I haven't ridden them myself, but might get a set in the coming months
    for the shopping scoot. I'll be sure to report back any shortcomings or
    benefits.

    Still think they look goofy. :-D
     
  11. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > With my elite image manipulation skills, you will get the shape.
    >
    > (warning, professional level graphics below)
    >
    > http://static.flickr.com/46/118227997_412a32fe9b_o.png



    Looks like a cross between a mutant pogo stick and an IUD!

    Bill "Rorschach! It's a Bat!" S.
     
  12. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:46:55 -0500, Peter Cole wrote:

    > landotter wrote:


    >> Peter Cole wrote:


    >>> landotter wrote:


    >>>> Seems to be mainly a perception issue. People assume that all drop
    >>>> bar bikes envolve a hunched over position. I find stricly flat bar
    >>>> bikes to be very uncomfortable for distance with only one hand
    >>>> position. Add bar ends, and they're tolerable. Add trekking bars, and
    >>>> you have a bikes that's just as comfy as a drop bar model, with a
    >>>> nice wide hand position for leverage when climbing.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm thinking about getting a set for the city bike, though I'm having
    >>>> issues with the fact that they're just plain goofy looking:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETWGTA/104-8770707-3234328?v=glance&n=3375251
    >>>>
    >>>> afaik, the open ends are towards the rider and are where you mount
    >>>> the shifter/brake.
    >>>>
    >>> I don't get that shape at all.

    >>
    >> With my elite image manipulation skills, you will get the shape.
    >>
    >> (warning, professional level graphics below)
    >>
    >> http://static.flickr.com/46/118227997_412a32fe9b_o.png


    > I understand the shape (although it was unclear which way was "front"),
    > it is the "utility" of the shape I don't get. Why bring your hands back
    > to the steer tube? How do you climb out of the saddle without hitting
    > your knees? Sorry, the shape just doesn't make any sense to me.


    Nor to me either.

    I'm well aware of the limitations of flat bars, even with barends. On
    long, flat road sections, or especially rail trails, my arms go dead no
    matter what I do. The only relief is from sitting up and riding no-hands.
    I don't have this problem with drop bars.

    I've tried the loop-style aero-combo MTB bars like the Scott AT-4, but
    there's no substitute for a drop bar -- a compromise arrived at through a
    century of evolution. Before suspension became popular (raising speeds
    over rough terrain), many top MTB riders were still using drop bars. Also,
    there were still MTB stage races then, which often included long road
    sections, favoring drop bars.

    Moustache bars are favored by a few top riders, including enduro champ
    John Stamstad. In a way they're like flattened-out drop bars. But I
    don't think they help much because what matters most is being able to vary
    your position vertically. For this they're better than a MTB bar, but not
    nearly as good as a drop bar.

    However a moustache bar is better than the bar referred to above. Used
    with a shorter stem, it gives an upright position held close to the stem
    or at the ends, good climbing leverage at the ends plus access to barend
    shifters, and good aerodynamics as well as good bracing (for rough terrain
    and braking) in the hooks.

    Here's an explanation of moustache bars, including
    advantages/disadvantages compared to other types:

    http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html

    For hybrid use, the type of dirt riding determines the best bar for me. If
    it's at all technical, then a flat (MTB) bar with barends is best. But
    for easy dirt roads and rail trails, a drop bar is better. Currently,
    with no good hybrid solution, I just suffer with my MTB on rail trails,
    and spend a lot of time riding no-hands!

    Matt O.
     
  13. landotter

    landotter Guest

    Sorni wrote:
    > landotter wrote:
    > > With my elite image manipulation skills, you will get the shape.
    > >
    > > (warning, professional level graphics below)
    > >
    > > http://static.flickr.com/46/118227997_412a32fe9b_o.png

    >
    >
    > Looks like a cross between a mutant pogo stick and an IUD!
    >



    I'm sure a Cannondale in the uterus prevents pregnancy, fwiw.
     
  14. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    Matt O'Toole wrote:
    http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html
    >
    > For hybrid use, the type of dirt riding determines the best bar for me. If
    > it's at all technical, then a flat (MTB) bar with barends is best. But
    > for easy dirt roads and rail trails, a drop bar is better. Currently,
    > with no good hybrid solution, I just suffer with my MTB on rail trails,
    > and spend a lot of time riding no-hands!


    That's what I do, too. Fortunately, almost all my MTB riding is
    "technical" off-road. I have seen a couple of MTB's set up with flat
    bars & aerobars. That seemed like an interesting combo for road riding.
     
  15. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:31:06 -0500, Peter Cole wrote:

    >> For hybrid use, the type of dirt riding determines the best bar for me.
    >> If it's at all technical, then a flat (MTB) bar with barends is best.
    >> But for easy dirt roads and rail trails, a drop bar is better.
    >> Currently, with no good hybrid solution, I just suffer with my MTB on
    >> rail trails, and spend a lot of time riding no-hands!

    >
    > That's what I do, too. Fortunately, almost all my MTB riding is
    > "technical" off-road. I have seen a couple of MTB's set up with flat
    > bars & aerobars. That seemed like an interesting combo for road riding.


    It used to be common when there were still a lot of long, point to point
    MTB races, which often included long road sections. If you look at MTB
    mags from the late 80s and early 90s you'll see a lot of loop bars and
    add-on aero bars. Some top riders, like Tomac, still used drops too. But
    then MTB racing changed to dirt crits held at ski areas, and no one needed
    to be aero anymore. Even riders with >20mi road commutes to the
    trailheads followed race fashion, and all of a sudden these aero setups
    were nowhere to be seen.

    Personally I'd like to have a drop bar bike with room for fatter tires and
    fenders, either a cross bike, or a road bike with good clearance.

    I salute Grant Peterson, et al for offering and encouraging bikes that
    don't fit the mainstream mold, but are actually a better compromise for
    the kind of riding most people do -- or want to do -- like the originator
    of this thread.

    Matt O.
     
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