Another Typical Mountain Biker Demonstrates Their Utter Ignorance of Basic Biology

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc' started by Mike Vandeman, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. At 02:28 PM 4/12/04 -0500, Jonathan Fogel <[email protected]> wrote:
    July 2, 1993

    >>Auto-Free Bay Area Coalition / 510-849-0770


    >>P.O. Box 10141


    >>Berkeley, California 94709



    >Dear Dr. Vandeman,


    >I recently read your letter to the Auto-Free Bay Area Coalition, (Re:

    Appropriate and Inappropriate Uses of the Bicycle; Promoting Bicycling)
    written July 2, 1993. Despite the fact that this letter was written over 10
    years ago, I found it difficult to restrain myself from throwing rotten
    vegetables at my monitor. From your retro-grouch stance, I'm willing to bet
    that you are still to this day, of the same opinion in regards to trail
    usage.

    >I consider myself an environmentalist and a road cyclist / mountain biker /

    hiker.

    That's a contradiction. Mountain bikers are NOT environmentalists.

    >I'm also a progressive, open minded individual who is able to roll

    with the issues at hand and not afraid to change my opinions if it benefits
    the whole.

    >Now that we got that out of the way, I wanted to address a few points of

    your letter. Judging from your extreme leftist slant, I'd be willing to bet
    you're not a fan of President Bush and his dogmatic rhetoric. I just wanted
    to point out to you how similar your style is.

    >>"However, a bicycle is still a tool of technology, and like all such tools

    can be used for good or "evil"."

    >Isn't it a little sociocentric, and overzealous to assume that mountain

    biking his inherently "evil"

    I don't assume it. I prove it.

    >I know of things happening in the world right

    now that are truly evil, and let me tell you, mountain biking isn't one of
    them. I found it quite childish and smacking of the religious right, not to
    mention cheap and quite frankly, unintelligent.

    Tell that to the wildlife you have killed by crusing them.

    >We Mountain bikers are trail users. What we take from the trail is

    enjoyment, just like anyone else.

    As well as accelerating erosion and driving away other trail users and wildlife.

    > Unlike most user groups we give back. Here

    In Missouri and all over the country, our mountain bike culture is defined
    by an ethic of responsibility. Most of us here engage in trail maintenance
    on a regular basis.

    Trail maintenance, like trail construdtion, is a destructive activity. You also
    forgot to mention that you HAVE to do trail maintenance, because you destroy the
    trails.

    > We do it because we realize we use the trail more than

    most.

    And do most of the DAMAGE. Be honest!

    Despite this we don't do a lot of finger pointing. We don't complain
    that we are the only private user group here improving and maintaining our
    trail system for everyone.

    >The idea that a mountain bike could be responsible for the extinction of

    wildlife is quite honestly preposterous.

    I never said that. But it has contributed.

    > Quite honestly, I've never heard a

    more narrow-minded argument. In fact it wasn't much of , just a weak,
    unsubstantiated slant. As for getting out into the backcountry, here in
    Missouri, we're not going anywhere a hiker can't get to. Besides, trails
    require usage...they don't maintain themselves.

    Trails only require maintenance if mountai bikers ruin them.

    >I'm sure if you had it your way we would be looking at nature from behind a

    glass wall, protected as it where in a sterile environment. It's perfectly
    fine with me if you want to exercise your right to abstain from a hike in
    the backcountry, but don't put our right to appreciate nature in jeopardy.

    So it is impossible for you to appreciate nature without being on a bike?! Can't
    you WALK?

    >With lack of appreciation comes lack of caring and commitment. It's the one

    of the founding principles of our National Park system.

    If mountain bikers appreciated nature, they wouldn't ride around it on knobby
    tires, ripping up the trails and killing the wildlife.


    >Sincerely,


    >Jonathan Fogel


    >P.S. When was the last time you physically did anything to improve your

    local trail system? Deeds not words.

    I pick up the trash whenever it needs it.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
    Tags:


  2. Ken Campbell

    Ken Campbell Guest

    Wow. It's like a mtn biker stole Mikees teddy bear or something.....Whiiirrrrrrrr spin snap......churnnnnn......(grinch mode on) " i must stop Mtn bikers from existing ...snnnrrkksnrrkkk"
    wheeeee.
    Snip

    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    morons ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the last 900
    Years fighting idiots and cretins.)


    >>> Mike Vandeman<[email protected]> 4/12/2004 11:33:03 PM >>>


    At 02:28 PM 4/12/04 -0500, Jonathan Fogel <[email protected]> wrote:
    July 2, 1993

    >>Auto-Free Bay Area Coalition / 510-849-0770


    >>P.O. Box 10141


    >>Berkeley, California 94709



    >Dear Dr. Vandeman,
     
  3. Michael Paul

    Michael Paul Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > At 02:28 PM 4/12/04 -0500, Jonathan Fogel <[email protected]>

    wrote:
    > July 2, 1993
    >


    >
    > That's a contradiction. Mountain bikers are NOT environmentalists.


    neither is one who's mere existence comes from the benefit of motorized
    transportation or any other fossil fuel derivative such as plastic, natural
    gas, rubber, asphalt, etc. etc. etc.

    you say a mountain biker is not an environmentalist since they ride on the
    trail yet your pathetic existence is based on benefiting from envionmental
    damage as well. by your own logic, you are also not an environmentalist.
    you can't have different standards for yourself than you do others (although
    it does make your side of the argument easier)

    idiot
     
  4. Mike Schwab

    Mike Schwab Guest

    Mike Vandeman wrote:
    <snip>
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    > humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    > years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    Mike, what is your address? I had a visitor in my house today. A
    racoon that climbed in for some cat food. I considered sending him to
    you. He fit nicely in my cat carrier. Hopefully, your human proof
    barrier will keep him in from human home. But because I was not set up
    to ship immediately, I took him to the police, who released him at a
    lake about 2 miles away. Oh, I could try to donate a family of 6 white
    tail deer. They keep running across my yard in the same place. One was
    hit and killed last summer. About 2 weeks ago another deer did not
    leave any blood behind, just some hair in the bent bumper and the plate
    frame broke off on the pickup truck.
     
  5. On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:37:20 -0500, Mike Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:

    ..
    ..
    ..Mike Vandeman wrote:
    ..<snip>
    ..> ===
    ..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    ..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    ..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    ..>
    ..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    ..Mike, what is your address?

    The White House
    Washington, D.C.

    I had a visitor in my house today. A
    ..racoon that climbed in for some cat food. I considered sending him to
    ..you. He fit nicely in my cat carrier.

    Good. Send him right away.

    Hopefully, your human proof
    ..barrier will keep him in from human home. But because I was not set up
    ..to ship immediately, I took him to the police, who released him at a
    ..lake about 2 miles away. Oh, I could try to donate a family of 6 white
    ..tail deer. They keep running across my yard in the same place. One was
    ..hit and killed last summer. About 2 weeks ago another deer did not
    ..leave any blood behind, just some hair in the bent bumper and the plate
    ..frame broke off on the pickup truck.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
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