Anti-Flat Inner Tubes?

[xmp333]

Hello,

I saw an inner tube that seemed to be filled with something other than air. The box proclaimed that
this inner tube would never go flat or lose air.

Does anyone have any experience with these? How does it affect bike performance? How comfortable is
the ride? How easy is it to peddle? How resistant are these tubes?

I have an all terrain bike -- 26" tires I believe. I don't ride it competitively -- just on errands,
exercise, etc... so optimum performance is not an issue. But I would like to avoid flats if
possible, so I'm considering replacing my inner tubes with these. I generally will ride on
sidewalks, street, and occasionally grass, but construction zones with gravel, nasty broken
sidewalks, and occasional railroad crossings with quarry rocks are things I encounter regularly.

Thanks

 

[Mark]

<[email protected]> wrote

> I saw an inner tube that seemed to be filled with something other than air. The box proclaimed
> that this inner tube would never go flat or lose air.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with these? How does it affect bike performance? How comfortable
> is the ride? How easy is it to peddle? How resistant are these tubes?
>
> I have an all terrain bike -- 26" tires I believe. I don't ride it competitively -- just on
> errands, exercise, etc... so optimum performance is not an issue. But I would like to avoid flats
> if possible, so I'm considering replacing my inner tubes with these. I generally will ride on
> sidewalks, street, and occasionally grass, but construction zones with gravel, nasty broken
> sidewalks, and occasional railroad crossings with quarry rocks are things I encounter regularly.
>
>
> Thanks
>
How much trouble are you having with flats right now? My own experience is that keeping your tires
inflated properly, replacing them when they get worn or when the casing is damaged, not using too
cheap a tire, and watching where I'm going will all do a lot to reduce my chances of getting a
flat. If you do all these things and are still getting a lot of flats, then the tubes you describe
might be worth looking into. They will add weight to your wheels and make the bike more sluggish,
but a utility/recreation rider such as yourself may not notice this as much as a more performance
oriented rider.

If you haven't done so already, learn to fix a flat tire and carry a spare tube, patch kit, pump,
and tire levers regardless of what kind of tubes you put on your bike.
--
mark

 

[Mark Freedman]

[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>
>
> I saw an inner tube that seemed to be filled with something other than air.

Please elucidate. Is this some sort of foam-filled neverflat tube
(I recall reading that the foam filled neverflat tires are horrible).

There are tubes filled with "slime" which is supposed to seal any puncture shortly after it
occurs, and tubes made with heavier rubber which is less prone to being punctured. I have one of
the latter in my winter bike - rubber is much thicker and stiffer than a regular tube, probably
affects ride and handling (and rotating weight).

The box proclaimed that this inner tube would never go flat or
> lose air.
>

sounds like my Voler-par-la-Nuit tireless wheel(tm), guaranteed to eliminate those inconvenient
flat tires.

> Does anyone have any experience with these? How does it affect bike performance? How comfortable
> is the ride? >

You might check www.deja.com for discussions of foam-filled tires. I may have seen something at
www.sheldonbrown.com or in the faq (pointer at sb) as well.

How easy is it to peddle?

Depends how gullible the customer is

> How resistant are these tubes?

> But I would like to avoid flats if possible,

Do you have a problem with frequent flats now?

Are they punctures caused by glass or other debris, or pinch flats caused by
under-inflation or abuse?

There are tires with a puncture-resistant belt. Some of these seem to prevent many punctures
from debris.

I suspect that the heavy tread on my Vredstein touring tires contributed to the
puncture-resistant qualiies. As the tread wore down, they had more punctures.

And I've read complaints about the Panaracer Pasela TG, which has very little tread, and a Kevlar
belt which apparently doesn't prevent punctures effectively.

ymmv

 

[xmp333]

> How much trouble are you having with flats right now?

I haven't had my bike for long, so I haven't had any flats yet, but in the past I used to get
numerous flats with my racing bike. I think I ended up with 3 or 4 in the space of a month or 2. I
know part of it is the less durable wheels, and my all terrain bike should not be more flat
resistent, but I'd like more assurances.

[Snip -- tips]

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, the sidewalks and roads here (in Houston, TX) have a lot of
debris, bumps, potholes, etc... and trying to avoid all of them leads to a significant slowdown,
especially when it seems like some tire danger occurs every 20 feet or so. I'd like to have
something that will enable me to plow ahead regardless of the debris, etc... in my way.

> If you haven't done so already, learn to fix a flat tire and carry a spare tube, patch kit, pump,
> and tire levers regardless of what kind of tubes you put on your bike.

Well, I replaced inner tubes multiple times, but I have never patched a tire before. While I can
deal with flats on the road, I don't want to deal with the delays that come with it.

Thanks.

 

[Megadeth Is Coo]

The Bell inner tubes filled with slime aren't worth ****.

Recently I had two of these go flat on the same day.

--

****** OSCAR THE GROUCH IS COOL!!! *******
* (And so is Men At Work! And Pete Rose!) *

I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! ------ http://www.todayslastword.org -------

 

[Peter Gardner]

> The Bell inner tubes filled with slime aren't worth ****.
>
> Recently I had two of these go flat on the same day.

I had one go flat three times in two days. That was not a pleasant two days.

Peter

 

[Mike Kruger]

I replaced a tire on my daughter's bike yesterday. This tire had perhaps the last Slime tube that I
had bought. The tube was in good shape, so I decided to remount it in the new tire. As I pumped the
slick up to 85 psi, I did not notice that the tire did not seat properly. The tire popped with a
loud bang, and I got a faceful of green slime.

Luckily, I was doing this outside, so I did not have walls to clean off. I always wear glasses when
doing any mechanical repairs, so I got very little in my eyes. Even more luckily, my wife could not
find her camera.

 

[Jobst Brandt]

Mike Kruger writes:

> I replaced a tire on my daughter's bike yesterday. This tire had perhaps the last Slime tube that
> I had bought. The tube was in good shape, so I decided to re-mount it in the new tire. As I pumped
> the slick up to 85 psi, I did not notice that the tire did not seat properly. The tire popped with
> a loud bang, and I got a faceful of green slime.

> Luckily, I was doing this outside, so I did not have walls to clean off. I always wear glasses
> when doing any mechanical repairs, so I got very little in my eyes. Even more luckily, my wife
> could not find her camera.

What you have not yet experienced is getting a flat from an obstacle that makes a large enough cut
to let out air in spite of slime. At that point a moving bicycle becomes unmanageable even on a
straight course because the flat tube, that is fully lubricated, will allow the bicycle to slide
from side to side as though on ice.

Of course, slime users don't expect to get a flat so no one considers this hazard.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Eric S. Sande]

>What you have not yet experienced is getting a flat from an obstacle that makes a large enough cut
>to let out air in spite of slime. At that point a moving bicycle becomes unmanageable even on a
>straight course because the flat tube, that is fully lubricated, will allow the bicycle to slide
>from side to side as though on ice.

Assuming the slime was distributing itself equally.

In a complete catastophic tube failure you're normally runing the rim on the flat casing, no air
pressure, which doesn't bode well in any event. I don't know if slime makes a difference here but it
sounds like it might.

The slime is still within the casing. If the casing is ripped open then the slime escapes, but to
what extent?

What is the longevity of slime?

>Of course, slime users don't expect to get a flat so no one considers this hazard.

Based on this I'd recommend that cyclists eschew slime.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________

 

[Mark Freedman]

"Mike Kruger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> I replaced a tire on my daughter's bike yesterday. This tire had perhaps the last Slime tube that
> I had bought. The tube was in good shape, so I decided to remount it in the new tire. As I pumped
> the slick up to 85 psi, I did not notice that the tire did not seat properly. The tire popped with
> a loud bang, and I got a faceful of green slime.
>
>
That's not fair. I thought I'd stumbled on a new casserole recipe, and it's just another
complaint about the "joys of slime" (uh-oh - I'd better not use THAT as a subject line).

Where's Martha Stewart when we REALLY need her?

("decorating with random splotches of green slime: It's a GOOD thing")

 

[xmp333]

> > I saw an inner tube that seemed to be filled with something other than air.
>
> Please elucidate. Is this some sort of foam-filled neverflat tube
> (I recall reading that the foam filled neverflat tires are horrible).

I'm not sure what the substance was, but it was some kind of solid that may have had air bubbles in
suspension. I think the brand name was "No-Flat" or "No-Mor Flats". I found it at Walmart.

> There are tubes filled with "slime" which is supposed to seal any puncture shortly after it
> occurs, and tubes made with heavier rubber which is less prone to being punctured. I have one
> of the latter in my winter bike - rubber is much thicker and stiffer than a regular tube,
> probably affects ride and handling (and rotating weight).

It was neither of those. This had no air, or what air it had was in suspension -- the primary medium
in the tubes being some sort of solid or gel.

>> The box proclaimed that this inner tube would never go flat or lose air.
>>
>
> sounds like my Voler-par-la-Nuit tireless wheel(tm), guaranteed to eliminate those inconvenient
> flat tires.

I never heard of that. I'll have to see if I can dig up info on this. It sounds like it would be
a snap to install as I would simply replace the entire wheel instead of trying to peel off the
tire, add an inner tube, slap it back on, etc... As for this thing, it's an inner tube and not a
tire or wheel.

>> Does anyone have any experience with these? How does it affect
bike
>> performance? How comfortable is the ride? >
>
> You might check www.deja.com for discussions of foam-filled tires. I may have seen something at
> www.sheldonbrown.com or in the faq (pointer at sb) as well.

I tried doing that before starting this thread. The problem was that I didn't know what these things
were called, so I wasn't coming up with any matches. Later I found out that they were referred to as
airless inner tubes, plus they have airless tires, and now you have mentioned a tireless wheel. My
cup spilleth over

>> How easy is it to peddle?
>
> Depends how gullible the customer is

Are you folks performance oriented? I've got a cheap bike as it is ($64 new) and it is far from a
comfortable ride, and my only concern is in getting from point A to point B reliably, and not having
to baby it around debris-laden terrain. I guess I'm trying to figure out if these things are held in
low regard by those who value performance or if they are held in low regard period

>> How resistant are these tubes?
>
>> But I would like to avoid flats if possible,
>
> Do you have a problem with frequent flats now?

No. So far I have had my bike for about 2-3 weeks with no flats, but I have also been delicate in
riding it as well. I'm just gun-shy because my old bike had numerous flats, and I hated dealing with
them so much that I stopped riding the bike. I really, really, really hate flats. Changing a flat on
a car is easy, changing a flat on a bike is a pain.

> Are they punctures caused by glass or other debris, or pinch flats caused by under-inflation or
> abuse?

With my old racing bike the flats were caused by hitting bumps. I guess being 200+ lbs, moving fast
and hitting anything more than a
1/4" bump caused it to go flat.

[Snip -- Puncture Resistant Tires...]

Hmmmmm, these sound good but I'd like even more guarantees -- or as close as I can get to them. With
no air comes no possibility of a flat.

Did I mention I REALLY hate flats?

Thanks.

 

[Buck]

<[email protected]> wrote in message

> I'm not sure what the substance was, but it was some kind of solid that may have had air bubbles
> in suspension. I think the brand name was "No-Flat" or "No-Mor Flats". I found it at Walmart.

Sounds like a closed-cell foam inner-tube.

> > sounds like my Voler-par-la-Nuit tireless wheel(tm), guaranteed to eliminate those
> > inconvenient flat tires.

> I never heard of that. I'll have to see if I can dig up info on this. It sounds like it would be
> a snap to install as I would simply replace the entire wheel instead of trying to peel off the
> tire, add

This was a joke, not a real product. Wheels are expensive and replacing one would cost you more than
your entire bicycle.

> with any matches. Later I found out that they were referred to as airless inner tubes, plus they
> have airless tires, and now you have mentioned a tireless wheel. My cup spilleth over

Airless inner tubes go inside a standard tire. Airless tires are just that - a foam-rubber tire that
requires no inner tube. Both are a pain to install, are prone to slipping, and in the case of the
airless inner-tube, may not fit the tire well.

> Are you folks performance oriented? I've got a cheap bike as it is ($64 new) and it is far from a
> comfortable ride, and my only concern is in getting from point A to point B reliably, and not
> having to baby it around debris-laden terrain. I guess I'm trying to figure out if these things
> are held in low regard by those who value performance or if they are held in low regard period

Most of the folks around here are commuters, recreational riders and sometimes racers. We all demand
the best performance out of the bike we choose to ride. Most of us would not find a $64 (new)
bicycle comfortable. Many of us believe that a bike of that caliber isn't safe to ride (substandard
wheels, brakes, components, etc.). Even if you find that bike comfortable, then you might not find
it as comfortable with a set of airless inner tubes or tires. Barring the presence of suspension
components, the tire provides most of the suspension for a bicycle. Filling it with foam makes it
less compliant, thus harder over the bumps.

> I'm just gun-shy because my old bike had numerous flats, and I hated dealing with them so much
> that I stopped riding the bike. I really, really, really hate flats. Changing a flat on a car is
> easy, changing a flat on a bike is a pain.

> With my old racing bike the flats were caused by hitting bumps. I guess being 200+ lbs, moving
> fast and hitting anything more than a
> 1/4" bump caused it to go flat.

Your old bike was a road bike with narrow tires. I'm betting your new bike fits in the "mountain
bike" category. The tires will be much less prone to flatting. In seven years of using a mountain
bike for commuting, I have never had a flat, even with slicks mounted. When you flat by hitting a
bump it is called a pinch flat or "snake bite." It is caused when the tube is pinched between the
rim and the bump. They key is to not let the air pressure get too low and to take it easy over
sharp-edged bumps. Don't just park your butt in the seat and let the tires take the abuse. Unweight
the rear wheel by "hopping" a little as it goes over the bump.

I'm also guessing that you have the stock knobby tires on your bike. These will help prevent flats
by keeping small slivers of glass and wire from penetrating through the tire. But these will also be
the least efficient and least controllable tires on pavement. A slick or semi-slick tire will
greatly improve the ride and handling of the bike with just a little more risk of a flat.

Dealing with a flat should be no problem. Perhaps you never learned the best way to do it. On a
cheap bike, it will be harder because of the extra tools required to remove the wheel (but a single
crescent wrench should take care of it). Go to a bike shop and buy your supplies. Everything you
need will either clip on the bike or fit in a small seat bag. Ask them to teach you the best way to
do it. It is surprisingly easy and takes no more than 10 minutes, even on a bad day. It is certainly
less work than changing an auto tire.

> Hmmmmm, these sound good but I'd like even more guarantees -- or as close as I can get to them.
> With no air comes no possibility of a flat.

There are no guarantees, even with a foam-filled tire. These may slip around the wheel when wet (not
too big of a problem when accelerating, but think about trying to stop). These may not fill the tire
properly, causing additional wear to the tire and greater rolling resistance. These will make the
tire less compliant over bumps, making the ride less comfortable. Most folks around here agree that
airless tires are a bad idea.

-Buck

 

[xmp333]

> >> The box proclaimed that this inner tube would never go flat or lose air.
> >>
> >
> > sounds like my Voler-par-la-Nuit tireless wheel(tm), guaranteed to eliminate those
> > inconvenient flat tires.
>
> I never heard of that. I'll have to see if I can dig up info on this. It sounds like it would be
> a snap to install as I would simply replace the entire wheel instead of trying to peel off the
> tire, add an inner tube, slap it back on, etc... As for this thing, it's an inner tube and not a
> tire or wheel.

I just realized that the Voler-par-la-Nuit was a joke. Please disregard all my references.

Still, the idea of an airless tire bonded to a bike rim and sold as a unit for ease of installation
appeals to me. Has anone done anything like that?

Thanks.

 

[Buck]

<[email protected]> wrote in message

> I just realized that the Voler-par-la-Nuit was a joke. Please disregard all my references.
>
> Still, the idea of an airless tire bonded to a bike rim and sold as a unit for ease of
> installation appeals to me. Has anone done anything like that?

The reason it isn't available on the market is that this is just a bad idea. If it were built using
traditional methods, the spokes would be difficult to work with. Just imagine, if one spoke nipple
were stripped, how would you get it out to replace it and the spoke? For that matter, how would you
replace a broken spoke? The wheel could be made of other materials (like BMX mags), but that would
add considerable expense and weight.What would you do when the tire tread was worn out? Buy a whole
new wheel? This is also an expensive and wasteful proposition. Brakes wear on rim surfaces. What
happens when the rim is worn? Another whole new wheel!

There are good reasons that airless tubes and tires are not a big part of the market. Go ahead and
buy one (probably at a third of the cost of your bike or more) and tell us how you really like the
way it changes the ride of your bicycle. The air-filled inner-tube is a superior product that
provides greater comfort, is repairable and replaceable when needed, allows repairs to the wheel,
allows easy tire changes, and keeps the tire firmly seated in its place, making it a safer product.

It would be a shame to give all this up because you don't like to repair a flat for whatever reason.

-Buck

 

[Bill Davidson]

[email protected] wrote:
> What you have not yet experienced is getting a flat from an obstacle that makes a large enough cut
> to let out air in spite of slime. At that point a moving bicycle becomes unmanageable even on a
> straight course because the flat tube, that is fully lubricated, will allow the bicycle to slide
> from side to side as though on ice.
>
> Of course, slime users don't expect to get a flat so no one considers this hazard.

I haven't experienced that yet but I got my first slime tube a few months ago. I still carry an
extra non-slime tube and a patch kit and an extra folding clincher (I've had 3 complete tire
failures).

This is the slime ultralight in a 700x25c tire.

I have noticed that I haven't had a flat yet, which is pretty good for me.

I've also noticed that the slime tube is less gas permeable than a standard tube. I inflate that
tire to 120psi and I've noticed that I can get away with pumping it up about once a month now rather
than the once a week that I used to.

My only complaint so far is the stem. Apparently, slime won't go into a standard presta valve so
easy so they've made the valve able to unscrew from the stem. They also give you a cap that won't
come off the presta very easily. I tried to unscrew the cap and the whole valve came off. I screwed
it back on and it still works but I'm a lot more careful about the cap.

I've never tried one of those heavy "thorn resistant" tubes.

--Bill Davidson

 

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] wrote:

>Mike Kruger writes:
>
>> Luckily, I was doing this outside, so I did not have walls to clean off. I always wear glasses
>> when doing any mechanical repairs, so I got very little in my eyes. Even more luckily, my wife
>> could not find her camera.
>
>What you have not yet experienced is getting a flat from an obstacle that makes a large enough cut
>to let out air in spite of slime. At that point a moving bicycle becomes unmanageable even on a
>straight course because the flat tube, that is fully lubricated, will allow the bicycle to slide
>from side to side as though on ice.
>
>Of course, slime users don't expect to get a flat so no one considers this hazard.

Even worse, I was cruising through the parking lot getting ready for the 2002 state time trial
championships when my rear tire (with a slime tube) let go with a tremendous bang.

Fortunately, I was competing in the tandem event, and was riding the captain's spot - so my hapless
stoker was the one who got covered with bright green slime (much to the amusement of the many, many
folks who got to see it).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Mark]

"Mark Hickey" wrote
> Even worse, I was cruising through the parking lot getting ready for the 2002 state time trial
> championships when my rear tire (with a slime tube) let go with a tremendous bang.
>
> Fortunately, I was competing in the tandem event, and was riding the captain's spot - so my
> hapless stoker was the one who got covered with bright green slime (much to the amusement of the
> many, many folks who got to see it).
>
> Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles

Did that person ever ride stoker for you again?
--
mark

 

[Megadeth Is Coo]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 03:31:15 GMT, "Mike Kruger" <[email protected]> said:

>I replaced a tire on my daughter's bike yesterday. This tire had perhaps the last Slime tube that I
>had bought. The tube was in good shape, so I decided to remount it in the new tire. As I pumped the
>slick up to 85 psi, I did not notice that the tire did not seat properly. The tire popped with a
>loud bang, and I got a faceful of green slime.

I bet it's one of those shitty Bell tubes.

--

****** OSCAR THE GROUCH IS COOL!!! *******
* (And so is Men At Work! And Pete Rose!) *

I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! ------ http://www.todayslastword.org -------

 

[xmp333]

> > With my old racing bike the flats were caused by hitting bumps. I guess being 200+ lbs, moving
> > fast and hitting anything more than a
> > 1/4" bump caused it to go flat.
>
> Your old bike was a road bike with narrow tires. I'm betting your new bike fits in the "mountain
> bike" category.

Yes on both counts. My new bike has 26" x 1.95 tires.

> They key is to not let the air pressure get too low and to take it easy over sharp-edged bumps.

Would I keep the air filled to the recommended pressure, or underfill a little? I'm not sure what
effect my weight would have on the tires...

> Don't just park your butt in the seat and let the tires take the abuse. Unweight the rear wheel by
> "hopping" a little as it goes over the bump.

What about standing on the pedals? I've gotten in the habit of doing that when I'm coming to sharp
drop-offs or unknown gradients (almost always on the sidewalk).

> I'm also guessing that you have the stock knobby tires on your bike. These will help prevent flats
> by keeping small slivers of glass and wire from penetrating through the tire. But these will also
> be the least efficient and least controllable tires on pavement. A slick or semi-slick tire will
> greatly improve the ride and handling of the bike with just a little more risk of a flat.

I have stock tires, but I don't know what a knobby is.

> Dealing with a flat should be no problem. Perhaps you never learned the best way to do it. On a
> cheap bike, it will be harder because of the extra tools required to remove the wheel (but a
> single crescent wrench should take care of it). Go to a bike shop and buy your supplies.
> Everything you need will either clip on the bike or fit in a small seat bag. Ask them to teach you
> the best way to do it. It is surprisingly easy and takes no more than 10 minutes, even on a bad
> day. It is certainly less work than changing an auto tire.

I think I have most of the tools needed -- sans tire levers, and even then I wonder if I need them
with my tires. I also keep a backpack with assorted supplies when I ride, so if I choose to I can
just keep all my supplies there. I've got a standard toolkit so I'm sure I can dig up the required
tool(s) for a flat.

Changing an auto flat meant removing the hubcap, removing the lug nuts, raising the car, changing
the tire, tightening the nuts, lowering the car, and putting back the hubcaps. I guess the real
irritating part of changing a bike flat was peeling off the tire (that was hell on earth for my
racing bike and took at least 5 - 15 minutes) and dealing with rear flats where I had a chain to
worry about. Oh yeah, I also need to worry about the brakes.

And now I'm reading all this stuff about being careful to position the inner tube, tire alignment,
etc... which would lead to more flats. It's like what little willingness I had to change flats is
rapidly evaporating.

> There are no guarantees, even with a foam-filled tire. These may slip around the wheel when wet
> (not too big of a problem when accelerating, but think about trying to stop). These may not fill
> the tire properly, causing additional wear to the tire and greater rolling resistance. These will
> make the tire less compliant over bumps, making the ride less comfortable. Most folks around here
> agree that airless tires are a bad idea.
>
> -Buck

Thanks for your input and advice.

 

[xmp333]

> There are good reasons that airless tubes and tires are not a big part of the market. Go ahead and
> buy one (probably at a third of the cost of your bike or more) and tell us how you really like the
> way it changes the ride of your bicycle. The air-filled inner-tube is a superior product that
> provides greater comfort, is repairable and replaceable when needed, allows repairs to the wheel,
> allows easy tire changes, and keeps the tire firmly seated in its place, making it a safer
> product.
>
> It would be a shame to give all this up because you don't like to repair a flat for
> whatever reason.

Well it's the delays and the worries. Everytime I hear a crunch under my wheels, I lose a year off
my life. Today with every bump and slide and crunch I must have aged 20 years.

I'm willing to pay a lot for peace of mind, and that includes money, comfort, and performance. I
look forward to the day when I can hear a shatter beneath my wheels or hit a drop off of a few
inches while retaining full equanimity.

There are some things you just can't put a price on.

>
> -Buck

Thanks.