Anti-War Alameda Critical Mass This Friday

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc archive' started by Jym Dyer, Apr 15, 2003.

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  1. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

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  2. On 15 Apr 2003 08:24:03 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> wrote:

    |[Info from the Berkeleymass List]
    |
    |=v= Meet at Fruitvale BART, this Friday at 5:30PM
    |
    |=v= More details here:
    |
    |http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1600592.php

    NEWSFLASH:

    The war is over.

    Now you fruitloops need to find a new excuse for your little anarchy fests.
     
  3. Ken -Lsqny)

    Ken -Lsqny) Guest

  4. P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote:
    > On 15 Apr 2003 08:24:03 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > |[Info from the Berkeleymass List]
    > |
    > |=v= Meet at Fruitvale BART, this Friday at 5:30PM
    > |
    > |=v= More details here:
    > |
    > |http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1600592.php
    >
    > NEWSFLASH:
    >
    > The war is over.
    >

    Syria has Weapons of Mass Destruction. W says so.

    Dan
     
  5. Tim Crowley

    Tim Crowley Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]_text> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I believe the CM is going to be anti-recovery since the war is won. Sorry, folks. Ya gotta keep
    > up. Regards, Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    > ____________________________________
    >
    > A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm

    and you are really so stupid you think Iraq had anything to do with that. Hint, ALL the hijackers
    were from our good ally Saudi Arabia. Sorry to confuse you with facts.
     
  6. On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:50:22 GMT, Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:

    |
    |
    |P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote:
    |> On 15 Apr 2003 08:24:03 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    |>
    |> |[Info from the Berkeleymass List]
    |> |
    |> |=v= Meet at Fruitvale BART, this Friday at 5:30PM
    |> |
    |> |=v= More details here:
    |> |
    |> |http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1600592.php
    |>
    |> NEWSFLASH:
    |>
    |> The war is over.
    |>
    |
    |Syria has Weapons of Mass Destruction. W says so.

    What does that have to do with the war in Iraq being over, let alone the Massholes using any excuse
    to act like petulent children?

    p.s. It's not just W who says so, it's former UN weapons inspectors.
     
  7. P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote:
    > On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:50:22 GMT, Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > |
    > |
    > |P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote:
    > |> On 15 Apr 2003 08:24:03 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    > |>
    > |> |[Info from the Berkeleymass List]
    > |> |
    > |> |=v= Meet at Fruitvale BART, this Friday at 5:30PM
    > |> |
    > |> |=v= More details here:
    > |> |
    > |> |http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1600592.php
    > |>
    > |> NEWSFLASH:
    > |>
    > |> The war is over.
    > |>
    > |
    > |Syria has Weapons of Mass Destruction. W says so.
    >
    > What does that have to do with the war in Iraq being over,

    There are other potential wars, so the anti-war message is as important as ever.

    Dan
     
  8. Ken -Lsqny)

    Ken -Lsqny) Guest

    On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:28:21 GMT, "Tim Crowley" <[email protected]> ranted:

    >
    >"Ken [NY)" <[email protected]_text> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> I believe the CM is going to be anti-recovery since the war is won. Sorry, folks. Ya gotta keep
    >> up. Regards, Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    >> ____________________________________
    >>
    >> A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm
    >
    >and you are really so stupid you think Iraq had anything to do with that.

    FIRST SET OF FACTS:

    Czechs confirm suspected hijacker met Iraqi October 27, 2001 Posted: 11:13 AM EDT (1513 GMT) Atta
    Atta: On board World Trade Center plane Save a link to this article and return to it at
    www.savethis.comSave a link to this article and return to it at www.savethis.com Printer-friendly
    version of this articlePrinter-friendly version of this article Email a link to this articleEmail a
    link to this article View a list of the most popular articles on our siteView a list of the most
    popular articles on our site

    PRAGUE, Czech Republic -- A Czech minister has confirmed that the suspected leader of the suicide
    hijackers met an Iraqi intelligence agent in the Czech capital.

    Interior minister Stanislav Gross said the meeting between Mohamed Atta and Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim
    Samir Al-Ani took place in April just before the Iraqi was expelled for conduct incompatible with
    his diplomatic status.

    Intelligence sources told CNN about the meeting in the days following the September 11 terror
    attacks in New York and Washington, but this is the first official confirmation by Czech officials.
    http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/27/inv.czech.iraq/

    SECOND SET OF FACTS:

    Proof of Iraq/Bin Laden links: report From AFP November 04, 2001 A FORMER Iraqi special forces
    officer has given new proof of links between Saudi-born dissident Osama bin Laden and Iraq,
    according to a report.

    The newspaper said that it was told by a leading member of the London-based Iraqi National Congress
    (INC), Nabeel Musawi, of the testimony of the 36-year-old former officer, identified only as A.S.

    The INC is one of the main opposition groups to Saddam Hussein's government.

    The newspaper said that the former officer told of a training camp called Salman Pak in Iraq where
    members of bin Laden's terror network had trained as pilots and on how to seize control of aircraft.

    Musawi said that the former officer told him: "There were also women pilots who were trained and I
    believe that the next time, if there is a next time, it could be a woman who takes over an
    airplane."

    The source also told of a meeting on the Pakistani border in December 1998 between an Iraqi diplomat
    working in Turkey and Osama bin Laden.

    He further claimed that Iraq had sent a tonne of anthrax bacteria to bin Laden.

    The former officer was said to have been in a poor physical state after being tortured and poisoned
    while in prison. http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID43/1539.html

    >Hint, ALL the hijackers were from our good ally Saudi Arabia. Sorry to confuse you with facts.

    FACT FOR YOU:

    "Of the 19 hijackers, 15 were Saudi citizens."
    http://www.terrorismanswers.com/coalition/saudiarabia.html

    Regards, Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    ____________________________________

    A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm

    email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

    "Man is the only animal that knows it will die. Man is also the only animal that drinks."

    - L. Block
     
  9. On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:15:30 GMT, Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:

    |
    |
    |P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote:
    |> On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:50:22 GMT, Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:
    |>
    |> |
    |> |
    |> |P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote:
    |> |> On 15 Apr 2003 08:24:03 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    |> |>
    |> |> |[Info from the Berkeleymass List]
    |> |> |
    |> |> |=v= Meet at Fruitvale BART, this Friday at 5:30PM
    |> |> |
    |> |> |=v= More details here:
    |> |> |
    |> |> |http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1600592.php
    |> |>
    |> |> NEWSFLASH:
    |> |>
    |> |> The war is over.
    |> |>
    |> |
    |> |Syria has Weapons of Mass Destruction. W says so.
    |>
    |> What does that have to do with the war in Iraq being over,
    |
    |There are other potential wars, so the anti-war message is as important |as ever.

    ROTFLMAO.

    So does this mean the idiots won't have any inane "No blood for oil" signs, etc. etc.?

    You better get with the BNB folks since they don't claim they are protesting aginst ALL wars, but
    THE war (the one that is over).

    "This is a call for a special anti-war Critical Mass bike ride on the Forbidden Island, Alameda."

    "Bikes not Bombs EVERY DAY until the war has been stopped!"

    Again, the war is over so they better find another reason for their anarchy fests.
     
  10. First, your style of discourse is unproductive.

    Second, there's obviously a mixed message in any gathering. No demonstration is a coherent message
    except in the simplistic eyes of the media -- people have different motivations and perceptions. My
    point is simply that the war issue isn't over, even if the Iraq conflict is essentially resolved.

    P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote: ever.
    >
    > ROTFLMAO.
    >
    > So does this mean the idiots won't have any inane "No blood for oil" signs, etc. etc.?
    >
    > You better get with the BNB folks since they don't claim they are protesting aginst ALL wars, but
    > THE war (the one that is over).
    >
    > "This is a call for a special anti-war Critical Mass bike ride on the Forbidden Island, Alameda."
    >
    > "Bikes not Bombs EVERY DAY until the war has been stopped!"
    >
    > Again, the war is over so they better find another reason for their anarchy fests.
     
  11. On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:27:08 GMT, Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:

    >First, your style of discourse is unproductive.

    It seems quite fruitful, given your funny replies.

    >Second, there's obviously a mixed message in any gathering. No demonstration is a coherent message
    >except in the simplistic eyes of the media -- people have different motivations and perceptions. My
    >point is simply that the war issue isn't over, even if the Iraq conflict is essentially resolved.

    Let's review your comment once again.

    "There are other potential wars, so the anti-war message is as important as ever."

    The BNB looneys disagree (see their quotes below), hence my intial reply that the war was over.

    If you have issues with folks focusing on the Iraq war, take it up with the BNB looneys, rather than
    trying to recast their position to suit your own needs.

    >
    >P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote: ever.
    >>
    >> ROTFLMAO.
    >>
    >> So does this mean the idiots won't have any inane "No blood for oil" signs, etc. etc.?
    >>
    >> You better get with the BNB folks since they don't claim they are protesting aginst ALL wars, but
    >> THE war (the one that is over).
    >>
    >> "This is a call for a special anti-war Critical Mass bike ride on the Forbidden Island, Alameda."
    >>
    >> "Bikes not Bombs EVERY DAY until the war has been stopped!"
    >>
    >> Again, the war is over so they better find another reason for their anarchy fests.
     
  12. "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]_text> wrote
    >
    > FIRST SET OF FACTS:
    >
    > Czechs confirm suspected hijacker met Iraqi

    Sorry, dude, but this was a complete fabrication, and was quickly discredited. See

    http://www.computerbytesman.com/911/praguefaq.htm

    for an extensively referenced critique of your "fact". Kinda makes you wonder how many other "facts"
    are actually lies.

    CC
     
  13. The occupation of Iraq continues to be illegal and immoral. It continues to benefit US based
    corporations with direct ties to the current administration and no-one else. It is also still an
    atrocity to the people of Iraq both physically and politically. It is also still resulting in the
    deaths of US military personnel and probably will be for quite a while. The war is hardly over, in
    fact the real work is yet to be started.

    Dan's point about Syria is relevant since all this administrations military plunderings are part of
    the one "war that won't end in our lifetime".

    "P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:27:08 GMT, Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >First, your style of discourse is unproductive.
    >
    > It seems quite fruitful, given your funny replies.

    It's nice to see you admit that you are the fruitloop.
     
  14. On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:08:22 -0700, "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote:

    |The occupation of Iraq continues to be illegal and immoral. It continues |to benefit US based
    corporations with direct ties to the current |administration and no-one else. It is also still an
    atrocity to the people |of Iraq both physically and politically. It is also still resulting in the
    |deaths of US military personnel and probably will be for quite a while. |The war is hardly over, in
    fact the real work is yet to be started.

    ROTFLMAO!

    I'm surprised that you were able to include so many lies and so much wacko invective into one
    paragraph.

    Good one!
     
  15. The real and only fact is that it's about corporate interests. There is no concern for the people of
    the US, Iraq or anyone else in much of our governments dealings.

    Privatization in Disguise

    http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=3D15638

    By Naomi Klein, The Nation

    April 15, 2003

    On April 6, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz spelled it out: There will be no role for the
    United Nations in setting up an interim government in Iraq. The US-run regime will last at least six
    months, "probably . . . longer than that."

    And by the time the Iraqi people have a say in choosing a government, the key economic decisions
    about their country's future will have been made by their occupiers. "There has got to be an
    effective administration from day one," Wolfowitz said. "People need water and food and medicine,
    and the sewers have to work, the electricity has to work. And that's a coalition responsibility."

    The process of getting all this infrastructure to work is usually called "reconstruction." But
    American plans for Iraq's future economy go well beyond that. Rather, the country is being treated
    as a blank slate on which the most ideological Washington neoliberals can design their dream
    economy: fully privatized, foreign-owned and open for business.

    Some highlights: The $4.8 million management contract for the port in Umm Qasr has already gone to a
    US company, Stevedoring Services of America, and the airports are on the auction block. The US
    Agency for International Development has invited US multinationals to bid on everything from
    rebuilding roads and bridges to printing textbooks. Most of these contracts are for about a year,
    but some have options that extend up to four. How long before they meld into long-term contracts for
    privatized water services, transit systems, roads, schools and phones? When does reconstruction turn
    into privatization in disguise?

    California Republican Congressman Darrel Issa has introduced a bill that would require the Defense
    Department to build a CDMA cell-phone system in postwar Iraq in order to benefit "US patent
    holders." As Farhad Manjoo noted in Salon, CDMA is the system used in the United States, not Europe,
    and was developed by Qualcomm, one of Issa's most generous donors.

    And then there's oil. The Bush Administration knows it can't talk openly about selling off Iraq's
    oil resources to ExxonMobil and Shell. It leaves that to Fadhil Chalabi, a former Iraq petroleum
    ministry official. "We need to have a huge amount of money coming into the country," Chalabi says.
    "The only way is to partially privatize the industry."

    He is part of a group of Iraqi exiles who have been advising the State Department on how to
    implement that privatization in such a way that it isn't seen to be coming from the United States.
    Helpfully, the groupheld a conference on April 4-5 in London, where it called on Iraq to open itself
    up to oil multinationals after the war. The Administration has shown its gratitude by promising
    there will be plenty of posts for Iraqi exiles in the interim government.

    Some argue that it's too simplistic to say this war is about oil. They're right. It's about oil,
    water, roads, trains, phones, ports and drugs. And if this process isn't halted, "free Iraq" will be
    the most sold country on earth.

    It's no surprise that so many multinationals are lunging for Iraq's untapped market. It's not just
    that the reconstruction will be worth as much as $100 billion; it's also that "free trade" by less
    violent means hasn't been going that well lately. More and more developing countries are rejecting
    privatization, while the Free Trade Area of the Americas, Bush's top trade priority, is wildly
    unpopular across Latin America. World Trade Organization talks on intellectual property, agriculture
    and services have all bogged down amid accusations that America and Europe have yet to make good on
    past promises.

    So what is a recessionary, growth-addicted superpower to do? How about upgrading Free Trade Lite,
    which wrestles market access through backroom bullying, to Free Trade Supercharged, which seizes
    new markets on the battlefields of pre-emptive wars? After all, negotiations with sovereign
    nations can be hard. Far easier to just tear up the country, occupy it, then rebuild it the way
    you want. Bush hasn't abandoned free trade, as some have claimed, he just has a new doctrine:
    "Bomb before you buy."

    It goes further than one unlucky country. Investors are openly predicting that once privatization of
    Iraq takes root, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait will be forced to compete by privatizing their oil.
    "In Iran, it would just catch like wildfire," S. Rob Sobhani, an energy consultant, told the Wall
    Street Journal. Soon, America may have bombed its way into a whole new free-trade zone.

    So far, the press debate over the reconstruction of Iraq has focused on fair play: It is
    "exceptionally maladroit," in the words of the European Union's Commissioner for External Relations,
    Chris Patten, for the United States to keep all the juicy contracts for itself. It has to learn to
    share: ExxonMobil should invite France's TotalFinaElf to the most lucrative oilfields; Bechtel
    should give Britain's Thames Water a shot at the sewer contracts.

    But while Patten may find US unilateralism galling and Tony Blair may be calling for UN oversight,
    on this matter it's beside the point. Who cares which multinationals get the best deals in Iraq's
    post- Saddam, pre-democracy liquidation sale? What does it matter if the privatizing is done
    unilaterally by Washington or multilaterally by the United States, Europe, Russia and China?

    Entirely absent from this debate are the Iraqi people, who might =96 who knows? =96 want to hold on
    to a few of their assets. Iraq will be owed massive reparations after the bombing stops, but without
    any real democratic process, what is being planned is not reparations, reconstruction or
    rehabilitation. It is robbery: mass theft disguised as charity; privatization without
    representation.

    A people starved and sickened by sanctions, then pulverized by war, is going to emerge from this
    trauma to find that their country has been sold out from under them. They will also discover that
    their newfound "freedom" =96 for which so many of their loved ones perished =96 comes
    pre-shackled with irreversible economic decisions that were made in boardrooms while the bombs
    were still falling.

    They will then be told to vote for their new leaders, and welcomed to the wonderful world of
    democracy.

    Naomi Klein is the author of "No Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies" (Picador) and, most
    recently, "Fences and Windows: Dispatches From the Front Lines of the Globalization Debate"
    (Picador).
     
  16. On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:46:07 -0700, "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip more inanity>

    |A people starved and sickened by sanctions,

    LOL.

    How incredibly clueless.

    Typical peacenik, anti-US, pap.
     
  17. "P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 15 Apr 2003 08:24:03 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > |[Info from the Berkeleymass List]
    > |
    > |=v= Meet at Fruitvale BART, this Friday at 5:30PM
    > |
    > |=v= More details here:
    > |
    > |http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1600592.php
    >
    > NEWSFLASH:
    >
    > The war is over.
    >
    > Now you fruitloops need to find a new excuse for your little anarchy fests.
    >

    They can volunteer to participate in this and help their country, it's about all that they are
    good for...

    [A reprise from an earlier post of mine]

    ---

    Washington, DC, January 18, 2003 (TraitorNet)

    The Department of the Navy released the following communiqué from Assistant Undersecretary of the
    Navy for Training and Morale, Lucian V. Patriot:

    "The Department of the Navy, speaking for the Department of Defense, accepts with pleasure the
    application of the City of Berkeley, California, to be the new site of its live-fire training and
    exercise facility. Since the announced closing of the Visquenes facility in Puerto Rico, the Navy
    has been searching for a replacement site for live-fire exercises of Navy and Marine assets, prior
    to deployment on active duty.

    We are pleased to announce that Berkeley, by its 5-4 council vote of 16 October, 2001 to condemn a
    military response to the events of 11 September 2001, and subsiquent resolutions of 5 February 2002
    and later to refuse to comply with the Patriot Act, and declaration of opposititon to war against
    Iraq, has indicated its willingness to replace Puerto Rico as the locale for realistic live-fire
    training in an actual urban warfare environment.

    While plans are still in a formative stage, it is expected that the new facility, to be renamed as
    "The Berkeley Nest of Traitors Live-Fire Training and Exercise Facility," will host intensive urban
    warfare training, using live ammunition, for segments of America's military including most units of
    the United States Marines, Air Force, Army, and of course the US Navy. Projected activities will
    include finely tuned Tomahawk Missile and army/naval bombardment artillery strikes on buildings such
    as the University of California Student Union and those university administration buildings used by
    the Faculty Senate of UC-B.

    Other activities, including live bayonet exercises and massed riflery fire, will be conducted on the
    campus quad for both Marine and Army infantry units, and the use of the Berkeley City administrative
    center for air-to-ground practice for both Navy, Marine Air, and Air Force squadrons. Other city and
    university facilities for exercises will feature use of Marine and Army armored vehicles and rotary
    winged aircraft.

    Separate exercises will be conducted in defense against bio-chemical warfare using live agents in
    this urban environment. Techniques on urban war fighting in that environment, as well as practice in
    the offensive use of these weapons, will be taught within the Facility, which in effect, includes
    the entire city.

    The city and university campus, long reservoirs of hatred against the United States military, and
    ardent supporters of countries and political philosophies hostile to the United States, will also
    serve a useful morale purpose, giving personal validation to military personnel as they train for
    insertion to areas of similar anti-US hostility such as Iraq.

    Dates to begin operation and the schedule of individual training exercises will be
    announced shortly."

    ### End

    --
    "We thank you, people of the great United States, for the gift that you have bestowed on us. I
    cannot promise that we will succeed in making good of it. But I do promise that we will try
    very hard."

    [Iraqi exile, Kanan Makiya, "THANK YOU, AMERICA, 4/15/2003,
    http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/73414.htm]
     
  18. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    =v= P e t e F a g e r l i n seems to be positioning himself as a latter-day John & Yoko. WAR IS
    OVER, IF YOU WANT IT. Say, didja see it on teevee or something? Lemme guess: the Fox network???

    =v= I'm sure the troops in Iraq would be very surprised to hear that the war is over. Ditto for the
    peace demonstrators in Baghdad who were gunned down in cold blood. <_Jym_
     
  19. Attbi News

    Attbi News Guest

    Oh, for Pete's sake, just get on your bikes and ride. Who needs a "cause" - isn't the beauty of
    riding a bicycle in the bay area reason enough to get out this weekend without bothering others?
     
  20. In article <[email protected]>, P e t e F a g e r l i n
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:46:07 -0700, "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > <snip more inanity>
    >
    > |A people starved and sickened by sanctions,
    >
    > LOL.
    >
    > How incredibly clueless.
    >
    > Typical peacenik, anti-US, pap.

    I think the line should have read A people starved and sickened by their leader who took money
    intended for humanitarian aid and instead lined his own poskets and bought gold plated guns for his
    sons and palaces for himself that are worthy of any mulit billionare.
     
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