Any point to a 2003 TdF?



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onedisciple

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I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He doesn't
need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages. My own hopes
that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen, and while it's
always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake, the odds of Lance
losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well just give him the
yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of hard labor. Really, I'd
rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win, but I can't imagine that happening if
he's in last year's shape. So what's the point of the race? We could hold the sprint days as a
separate event.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.

He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
previous Tours de France (which is not evident based on your statements) it would be obvious that
winning is a team effort.

> My own hopes that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen,
> and while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake,
> the odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well
> just give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of
> hard labor.

Accident, illness, an early race break with a surprisingly strong underdog, untimely bonk; all of
these are possibilities that can cause Lance to lose. However, if you think the overall is the only
aspect of the race worth following, you're missing most of the race. Too bad for you.
 
> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point?

I think the point is to determine the winner.

> He doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on
> mountain stages.

Yes, after his team is done with their work.

> and while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake,
> the odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low,

Actually, not so low. The older he gets, the more others want to take him out, the small few who
have won five TDF's, the chance of the aforementioned alien invasion, etc.

> they might as well just give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day,

Well, if the actual riders have your mentality, then he very well might be invincible.

You'll be happy to know that Beloki appears to think he will have Lance's number this year. If he
can back up the talk....

--

Saving Private Ryan Online Encyclopedia http://www.sproe.com/
 
Big Mig is touting Jan to challenge Lance. http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/4250.0.html Be
great to see this battle with Jan in shape to start the race. I hope Tyler can hang, and I think
he's going to. I thought this was going to be "lance goes away with the win" but this is shaping up
to be a great race. How about Hincapie coming around? Is he going to grab a stage? Bill C
 
looking at the stage profiles (thet're up at Cyclngnews.com and elsewghere by now..) there are no
"easy"stages.. even the first week "flat"stages aren't.. they're full of little rollers and sharp
short climbs tht should make for interesting racing... just one guys point of view.. the winds just
died so I'm of to ride.. god but I love summer daylight.. it's 700pm (2100 to some of you) and still
bright and sunny.

[email protected] wrote:
> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He doesn't
> need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages. My own
> hopes that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen, and
> while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake, the
> odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well just
> give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of hard
> labor. Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win, but I can't imagine
> that happening if he's in last year's shape. So what's the point of the race? We could hold the
> sprint days as a separate event.
 
Its an easy course. It may be decided in the time trails.

Lance only nabbed 3rd in the Dauphine TT so who knows what might happen.

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.
> My own hopes that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen,
> and while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake,
> the odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well
> just give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of
> hard labor. Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win, but I can't
> imagine that happening if he's in last year's shape. So what's the point of the race? We could
> hold the sprint days as a separate event.
 
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>
>
>
>He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
>previous Tours de France (which is not evident based on your statements) it would be obvious that
>winning is a team effort.
>
Actually, I have followed previous TdFs, and while my hat is off to Lance's team, I disagree. When
Lance can take a look at those around him on a big mountain stage, and just ride away from all his
competitors, his team, other than bringing him water, is not that significant for helping him win.
They may do a good job of making things easier for him, like patrolling the front of the peleton for
breaks, but like Indurain, he could have won before regardless of who was on his team. Again, I
think his team does a great job, and I'd really like to see Hincapie get a break after all these
years helping someone else win, but I don't think they affect the outcome all that much. You're free
to disagree of course, but I've never seen a TdF won on those little hills. They are won on big
mountain stages, where teams are left behind, and on time trials, which are not team activities.
Lance might lose if his team did nothing for him, but he has won, so far as I can tell, and will
doubtless win again, on his own.

Every year people talk about what might happen, e.g., "this other racer is looking good," or
"Lance could have an accident," or what-have-you, but it never happens, so why bother
speculating.

Ken

>
>

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<blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap=""><!----> He only does this after his team has shattered the
field on the lower slopes. If you followed previous Tours de France (which is not evident based on
your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.</pre> </blockquote> Actually, I
have followed previous TdFs, and while my hat is off to Lance's team, I disagree. When Lance
can take a look at those around him on a big mountain stage, and just ride away from all his
competitors, his team, other than bringing him water, is not that significant for helping him win.
They may do a good job of making things easier for him, like patrolling the front of the
peleton for breaks, but like Indurain, he could have won before regardless of who was on his team.
Again, I think his team does a great job, and I'd really like to see Hincapie get a break
after all these years helping someone else win, but I don't think they affect the outcome all that
much. You're free to disagree of course, but I've never seen a TdF won on those little hills.
They are won on big mountain stages, where teams are left behind, and on time trials, which
are not team activities. Lance might lose if his team did nothing for him, but he has won, so
far as I can tell, and will doubtless win again, on his own. <br> <br> Every year
people talk about what might happen, e.g., "this other racer is looking good," or "Lance could have
an accident," or what-have-you, but it never happens, so why bother speculating.<br> <br> Ken
<br> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>

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"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Big Mig is touting Jan to challenge Lance. http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/4250.0.html
> Be great to see this battle with Jan in shape to start the race. I hope
Tyler
> can hang, and I think he's going to. I thought this was going to be "lance
goes
> away with the win" but this is shaping up to be a great race. How about Hincapie coming around? Is
> he going to grab a stage?

On a team like USPS, the support is not allowed to go for a stage win. Indurain's Banesto was the
same. The job of everyone on both those teams is to help their leader win the GC, expending energy
on pursuing stage wins would compromise that.
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>>He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
>>previous Tours de France (which is not evident
based
>>on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.

>Actually, I have followed previous TdFs, and while my hat is off to Lance's
team, I disagree. When Lance can take a look at those around him on a big
>mountain stage, and just ride away from all his competitors, his team,
other than bringing him water, is not that significant for helping him win. They may do a >good job
of making things easier for him, like patrolling the front of the peleton for breaks, but like
Indurain, he could have won before regardless of who was >on his team.

His team is responsible for making things hard for the competition. Riding hard enough to discourage
breakaways is key to ensure that LANCE doesn't have to chase anything down. Lance's role is like a
matador. Others soften up the bull, and he steps in to inflict the killing blow. A matador _might_
be able to do the whole job on his own, but he doesn't. It's usually the first bullfighters who get
gored, while the bull is still fresh.

>Every year people talk about what might happen, e.g., "this other racer is
looking good," or "Lance could have an accident," or what-have-you, but it never >happens, so why
bother speculating.

This is the whole premise behind playing the lottery, or being successful in life. Do you
immediately drop everything that you fail to succeed at the first time? "Why bother speculating" is
a strange attitude given that nothing in life is certain.
 
TritonRider wrote:
> Big Mig is touting Jan to challenge Lance.
> http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/4250.0.html Be great to see this battle with Jan in
> shape to start the race. I hope Tyler can hang, and I think he's going to. I thought this was
> going to be "lance goes away with the win" but this is shaping up to be a great race. How about
> Hincapie coming around? Is he going to grab a stage? Bill C

He will finish second at best.
 
"Lewdvig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Its an easy course. It may be decided in the time trails.
>
> Lance only nabbed 3rd in the Dauphine TT so who knows what might happen.
>

get your facts right. lance got 3rd in the PROLOGUE at dauphine.

He won the TT there. Easily.
 
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point?

here's a quick solution- don't watch it.

i'll watch even if it's completely certain he's going to win. i regret not seeing any of the other
big tdf winners race (too young, or not paying attention at the time). i'm just happy that i get to
personally witness him dominate the tour.

heather
 
[email protected] wrote:

> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He doesn't
> need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.

Obviously you do not know anything about pro bicycle racing. No one can win a 3 weeks stage race
riding as a favourite without a team. Not even Merckx could do it. Someone riding by himself would
be a victim of "trashcan" breakaways during the first week
 
> > I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> > doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
> > stages.
>
> He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
> previous Tours de France (which is not evident
based
> on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.

This is something I don't quite get either. If Lance can accend the climbs faster than anyone else,
then what he needs to do is get to the base of the climbs with the leading group. He doesn't need to
cover attacks, as long as he finishes the climb as fast as he can. And if he finishes with a pack of
riders, then he still wins with the ITT. That's the beauty of races with tough climbs: tactics lose
out to the strongest climber. For example, when was the last time that a mountain-top finish was not
won by the best climber, when all the contenders were together at the base of the climb? I'm not
much of bike race historian, but there is one incident that sticks out: Lance bonking.
 
I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for being climber, won a stage in
the Alps a few years back by attacking on the flats and gaining about nine minutes before the climb
started. He figured he would need that much time to make up for his lack of climbing efficiency.

No one took him seriously for the GC - he was probably 30 minutes or more down at that point - so
they let him go.

Doubtful that a contender would get so lucky.

"Sluggo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > > I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> > > doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
> > > stages.
> >
> > He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
> > previous Tours de France (which is not evident
> based
> > on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.
>
> This is something I don't quite get either. If Lance can accend the
climbs
> faster than anyone else, then what he needs to do is get to the base of
the
> climbs with the leading group. He doesn't need to cover attacks, as long
as
> he finishes the climb as fast as he can. And if he finishes with a pack
of
> riders, then he still wins with the ITT. That's the beauty of races with tough climbs: tactics
> lose out to the strongest climber. For example,
when
> was the last time that a mountain-top finish was not won by the best climber, when all the
> contenders were together at the base of the climb? I'm not much of bike race historian, but there
> is one incident that sticks out: Lance bonking.
 
>Obviously you do not know anything about pro bicycle racing. No one can win a 3 weeks stage race
>riding as a favourite without a team.

LeMond's 1989 win with a very weak ADR team - few of whom (two others?) even finished the race -
comes very close to disproving that.
 
"Mapei81" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >Obviously you do not know anything about pro bicycle racing. No one can win a 3 weeks stage race
> >riding as a favourite without a team.
>
> LeMond's 1989 win with a very weak ADR team - few of whom (two others?)
even
> finished the race - comes very close to disproving that.

In the first week of the race, Lemond was not considered a threat to win, therefore his team was not
expected to keep the race under control.

If LA's team was weak, he would be more vulnerable.
 
Lewdvig wrote:
> I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for being climber, won a stage
> in the Alps a few years back by attacking on the flats

Mont Ventoux, even. There's another story attached to it about a bet or an agreement, but I don't
remember the details. He runs a cafe in Italy now somewhere.
 
He said "mountain TOP" finish.

Eros Poli won the 15th stage of the 1994 Tour that went up and over the Ventoux. It finished in
Carpentras (a town in a valley).

"Lewdvig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for
being
> climber, won a stage in the Alps a few years back by attacking on the
flats
> and gaining about nine minutes before the climb started. He figured he
would
> need that much time to make up for his lack of climbing efficiency.
>
> No one took him seriously for the GC - he was probably 30 minutes or more down at that point - so
> they let him go.
>
> Doubtful that a contender would get so lucky.
>
>
>
>
> "Sluggo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > > I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> > > > doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
> > > > stages.
> > >
> > > He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the lower slopes. If you followed
> > > previous Tours de France (which is not evident
> > based
> > > on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team effort.
> >
> > This is something I don't quite get either. If Lance can accend the
> climbs
> > faster than anyone else, then what he needs to do is get to the base of
> the
> > climbs with the leading group. He doesn't need to cover attacks, as
long
> as
> > he finishes the climb as fast as he can. And if he finishes with a pack
> of
> > riders, then he still wins with the ITT. That's the beauty of races
with
> > tough climbs: tactics lose out to the strongest climber. For example,
> when
> > was the last time that a mountain-top finish was not won by the best climber, when all the
> > contenders were together at the base of the climb? I'm not much of bike race historian, but
> > there is one incident that
sticks
> > out: Lance bonking.
> >
>
 
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