Any point to a 2003 TdF?

[Lewdvig]

Cool guy. Apparently he was known to stop and chat up pretty ladies.

I will have to look up his cafe next time I am over there.

"Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Lewdvig wrote:
> > I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for
being
> > climber, won a stage in the Alps a few years back by attacking on the
flats
>
> Mont Ventoux, even. There's another story attached to it about a bet or an agreement, but I don't
> remember the details. He runs a cafe in Italy now somewhere.

 

[Lewdvig]

Relax nick.

"Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> He said "mountain TOP" finish.
>
> Eros Poli won the 15th stage of the 1994 Tour that went up and over the Ventoux. It finished in
> Carpentras (a town in a valley).
>
>
> "Lewdvig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I think Eros Poli - the monster sized - Italian, who was not noted for
> being
> > climber, won a stage in the Alps a few years back by attacking on the
> flats
> > and gaining about nine minutes before the climb started. He figured he
> would
> > need that much time to make up for his lack of climbing efficiency.
> >
> > No one took him seriously for the GC - he was probably 30 minutes or
more
> > down at that point - so they let him go.
> >
> > Doubtful that a contender would get so lucky.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Sluggo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > > > I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last
year,
> > > > > is there any point? He doesn't need a team, as he is always able
to
> > > > > simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.
> > > >
> > > > He only does this after his team has shattered the field on the
lower
> > > > slopes. If you followed previous Tours de France (which is not
evident
> > > based
> > > > on your statements) it would be obvious that winning is a team
effort.
> > >
> > > This is something I don't quite get either. If Lance can accend the
> > climbs
> > > faster than anyone else, then what he needs to do is get to the base
of
> > the
> > > climbs with the leading group. He doesn't need to cover attacks, as
> long
> > as
> > > he finishes the climb as fast as he can. And if he finishes with a
pack
> > of
> > > riders, then he still wins with the ITT. That's the beauty of races
> with
> > > tough climbs: tactics lose out to the strongest climber. For example,
> > when
> > > was the last time that a mountain-top finish was not won by the best climber, when all the
> > > contenders were together at the base of the
climb?
> > > I'm not much of bike race historian, but there is one incident that
> sticks
> > > out: Lance bonking.
> > >
> > >
> >
>

 

[Tom Kunich]

One point would be that you could watch it and learn just how far off base you are. Doesn't need
a team? Ride away from everyone on mountain stages? Exactly how the hell do you think he could
ride away from people on the last climb if he didn't have a team to support him all the way to
the last climb?

"Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win" I have no doubt that you
would have said the same thing about Bernard Hinault, Eddy Merckx and Miguel Indurain. Such a boring
race when someone wins it more than once isn't it?

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year,
is
> there any point? He doesn't need a team, as he is always able to
simply
> ride away from everyone on mountain stages. My own hopes that
Ulrich
> would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to
happen,
> and while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake,
> the odds of Lance losing, if he is in
the
> same shape as last year are so low, they might as well just give him
the
> yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three
weeks
> of hard labor. Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win, but I can't
> imagine that happening if he's in
last
> year's shape. So what's the point of the race? We could hold the sprint days as a separate event.

 

[Stewart Fleming]

My girlfriend explains to me that the point of the TdF in 2003 is the Prologue and ITT stages where
she gets to eye up fit men in small, tight-fitting skinsuits.

 

[David Ryan]

"What is best in life?"

"The closed course, a swift bicycle, wind in your hair, top tube at your breast..."

"WRONG! Lance! What is best in life?"

"To drop your enemies, to see them falling behind you and to hear the lamentation of their tifosi."

Coming next: Armstrong the Bikearian

 

[Urhome]

No matter who wins, hasn't Lance proven that spinning isn't for losers: So, that's a gift to
the sport.

It certainly must be fundamental for any weekend rider that would like to stay with this sport that
spinning is the way to go. No matter what: sore foot, sore ass, sore shoulder, chafe, over the bars
. . . there are hassles to overcome over the years but chrondo is pretty much the end of the line
isn't it?'

I think you probably can get chrondo spinning if you do it every day without a break for a year. On
the road with varied terrain though, it seems like even old and crappy knees can spin for hours and
hopefully for years and years.

 

[Doug Taylor]

[email protected] wrote:

> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He doesn't
> need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages. My own
> hopes that Ulrich would beat him regularly haven't happened and aren't likely to happen, and
> while it's always possible something could happen, bad accident, alien invasion, earthquake, the
> odds of Lance losing, if he is in the same shape as last year are so low, they might as well just
> give him the yellow jersey now and call it a day, and save everyone from three weeks of hard
> labor. Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win, but I can't imagine
> that happening if he's in last year's shape. So what's the point of the race? We could hold the
> sprint days as a separate event.

As a long time lurker in this group, I notice each June and July that the TDF brings out fair
weather fans of bicycle racing (present company included by this post, I suppose) whose lack of
knowledge of the sport is exceeded only by their zeal to broadcast it on usenet for a month.

I think the regulars, who have been known to be a bit merciless with the clueless, should be
commended for their restraint. --dt

 

[Charlie C.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain stages.

I'm not sure Lance can just "ride away from everyone on mountain stages" at a whim. In this years
Dauphine Libere he was trying like hell to catch Mayo on one of those mountain top finishes and
wasn't able to, nor was he able to shake that other guy who sat on his wheel the whole way up. The
reason (or at least "a" reason) Lance was able to "just ride away" from Jan Ulrich a couple of
tours ago was because Jan wore himself out on earlier climbs (pushing that big gear and trying to
wear-down a "seemingly" tired Armstrong) and when Lance turned up the motor, Jan couldn't keep up.
I would bet that if both guys were in the same shape at the start of a climb they could both hang
with each other pretty well. It's the tactis (the team tactics) that really helped Lance, IMO, beat
Jan (tricking Telecom into pushing the race while Lance faked fatigue, Telecom not being totally
focused on Jan but trying to split the Tour glory with Zabel, etc...). Telecom made more mistakes
then Postal.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Charlie C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
> > doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
> > stages.
>
> I'm not sure Lance can just "ride away from everyone on mountain stages"
at
> a whim. In this years Dauphine Libere he was trying like hell to catch
Mayo
> on one of those mountain top finishes and wasn't able to, nor was he able
to
> shake that other guy who sat on his wheel the whole way up. The reason
(or
> at least "a" reason) Lance was able to "just ride away" from Jan Ulrich a couple of tours ago was
> because Jan wore himself out on earlier climbs (pushing that big gear and trying to wear-down a
> "seemingly" tired Armstrong)

<snip>

That's incorrect - when Armstrong bluffed Telekom, the entire Telekom team, except for Jan,
set tempo.

 

[Charlie C.]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
news[email protected]:

>
> "Charlie C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> > I'm no fan of Lance's, but if he's in the same shape as last year, is there any point? He
>> > doesn't need a team, as he is always able to simply ride away from everyone on mountain
>> > stages.
>>
>> I'm not sure Lance can just "ride away from everyone on mountain stages" at a whim. In this years
>> Dauphine Libere he was trying like hell to catch Mayo on one of those mountain top finishes and
>> wasn't able to, nor was he able to shake that other guy who sat on his wheel the whole way up.
>> The reason (or at least "a" reason) Lance was able to "just ride away" from Jan Ulrich a couple
>> of tours ago was because Jan wore himself out on earlier climbs (pushing that big gear and trying
>> to wear-down a "seemingly" tired Armstrong)
>
> <snip>
>
>
> That's incorrect - when Armstrong bluffed Telekom, the entire Telekom team, except for Jan,
> set tempo.
>
>
>
>
>

Maybe I phrased it badly but I pretty much agree with you. The team set the tempo for Jan but he
still had to ride with them and it was a pretty strong tempo. Of course my points were that teams do
make a difference in the Tour and that Lance benefits greatly from a good team and Lance probably
can't simply "ride away" from good riders.

 

[Deeknow]

"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... <snip>
> Lance's role is like a matador. Others soften up the bull, and he steps in to inflict the killing
> blow. A matador _might_ be able to do the whole job on his own, but he doesn't. It's usually the
> first bullfighters who get
gored,
> while the bull is still fresh.

That's a wicked analogy Kyle, cheers, I'll definately be using it in future.

I was sitting in a bar in town tonight watching stage-one and trying to explain the team-leader
role to a non-cyclist. The conecpt of the leader seeming to let his teammates do all the work and
be out of the action for many of the stages, but still winning the race at the end seemed to be
lost on the listener.

--
cheers, Dean Stringer -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You just heard from
->> 'the worlds most fabulous man' deeknow at pobox.com http://www.deeknow.com/

 

[onedisciple]

>
>One point would be that you could watch it and learn just how far off base you are. Doesn't need
>a team? Ride away from everyone on mountain stages? Exactly how the hell do you think he could
>ride away from people on the last climb if he didn't have a team to support him all the way to
>the last climb?
>
>"Really, I'd rather absolutely anyone in the peloton besides Lance win" I have no doubt that you
>would have said the same thing about Bernard Hinault, Eddy Merckx and Miguel Indurain. Such a
>boring race when someone wins it more than once isn't it?
>
Actually, I thought Indurain was awesome. He's another rider, though, who basically could ride away
from just about anyone. I enjoyed watching him ride, and ws amazed at how powerful he was. IF you
watch big stage races like the TdF, however, you know as well as I do, that while there might be
skirmishes among lesser names on "flat" stages, when it gets really steep, there are a few starts
out in front, while for the most part, team mates cannot hang on when the big guns find a new gear
up hill. Yes, a team may chase down breakaways on flat stages, but the odds of those breakaways,
even if uncontrolled, of making a real difference to the overall result are low. I remember a few
years back that a group went off the front in the fist week of he TOur de France, and gained a huge
time gap, like 14 minutes., Yet, this group did not contain the eventual winner who won by leaving
everyone in the dust on the mountains. His team didn't prevent the big breakaway, yet the guy won
anyway. That's strong evidence to me that teams are somewhat useful but not necessarily decisive for
who wins, not by a long shot.

Ken