Any way of (legally) raising my hematocrit?



I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize it
can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles, fatty
acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap mollasus
and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I seem
to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)
 
A

amit

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize

it
> can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
> that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles,

fatty
> acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
> affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap

mollasus
> and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I

seem
> to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)


you could take up smoking .
 
It'll drop like that if, um, your body has, um, for some reason,
er...Stopped "naturally" producing the hormone that stimulates red
blood cell growth...Often this happens because the patient has been
taking an artificial hormonepo(whoops).
 
S

Steven Bornfeld

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize it
> can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
> that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles, fatty
> acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
> affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap mollasus
> and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I seem
> to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)
>


I'd get a repeat blood test. If you're male and significantly anemic,
you should get a medical workup. This isn't do-it-yourself stuff.

Steve
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize it
> can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
> that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles, fatty
> acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
> affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap mollasus
> and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I seem
> to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)


If your hematocrit is below 38 or so you should be discussing this with a
competent doctor. I suppose I'd like to know what the hell you could
possibly believe you could learn from the internet news group.
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 04:11:11 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote:

><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>>I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
>> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
>> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
>> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize it
>> can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
>> that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles, fatty
>> acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
>> affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap mollasus
>> and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I seem
>> to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)

>
>If your hematocrit is below 38 or so you should be discussing this with a
>competent doctor. I suppose I'd like to know what the hell you could
>possibly believe you could learn from the internet news group.


What, if anything, other cyclists are doing to improve HCT levels legally and
what might have caused him to test poorly. That is after all what he asked.

People in other sports talk openly about what they do to improve performance.

Ron
 
R

Raptor

Guest
Would moving to a higher elevation do it?

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"
 
T

trg

Guest
See a doctor. Soon. You could have renal failure. It's a ***** trying to fit
workouts in with your thrice weekly dialysis schedule while waiting 3 years
for a kidney transplant.

Don't mess around.


<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]
> I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize it
> can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
> that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles, fatty
> acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
> affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap mollasus
> and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I seem
> to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)
>
 
S

Steven Bornfeld

Guest
RonSonic wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 04:11:11 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>>I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
>>>recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
>>>bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
>>>month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize it
>>>can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
>>>that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles, fatty
>>>acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
>>>affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap mollasus
>>>and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I seem
>>>to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)

>>
>>If your hematocrit is below 38 or so you should be discussing this with a
>>competent doctor. I suppose I'd like to know what the hell you could
>>possibly believe you could learn from the internet news group.

>
>
> What, if anything, other cyclists are doing to improve HCT levels legally and
> what might have caused him to test poorly. That is after all what he asked.
>
> People in other sports talk openly about what they do to improve performance.
>
> Ron


Absent some info about what his current hematocrit is, I'd have to
agree with Tom and trg.

Steve
 
S

Suz

Guest
"trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> See a doctor. Soon. You could have renal failure. >


Or, more likely, an internal bleeding of some sort. It is not, I repeat NOT
normal for a hematocrit to drop 10 points, regardless of what you are- or
are not- taking (unless you DID recently stop doping...)

Did a doctor order the hct, and if so, what did he/she say about the
results? If nothing, see another doctor, soon.


>
> <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
> news:[email protected]
>> I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
>> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
>> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
>> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!!
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Suz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> See a doctor. Soon. You could have renal failure. >

>
> Or, more likely, an internal bleeding of some sort. It is not, I repeat
> NOT normal for a hematocrit to drop 10 points, regardless of what you are-
> or are not- taking (unless you DID recently stop doping...)


And you can bet that is hasn't.

> Did a doctor order the hct, and if so, what did he/she say about the
> results? If nothing, see another doctor, soon.


He didn't say why he had his hct checked and he didn't say what it was.
There are a number of instruments around that they use for measuring
hematocrit in places like blood drives that aren't really accurate. Now add
the way that the blood is drawn and from the location from which it was
drawn and it's easy to get a 10 point reading variation.

The only true test is a centrifuge.
 
S

Steve

Guest
Actually..........

It specifically says "10 percentage points".... Meaning more like dropping
from 44 to 40 (4 is 10% of 44) Not dropping from 44 to 34.

I would be concerned more with the accuracy level of the tests? Were they
done at 2 different places by 2 different labs, etc..


On 2/6/05 4:57 PM, in article [email protected], "Suz"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> See a doctor. Soon. You could have renal failure. >

>
> Or, more likely, an internal bleeding of some sort. It is not, I repeat NOT
> normal for a hematocrit to drop 10 points, regardless of what you are- or
> are not- taking (unless you DID recently stop doping...)
>
> Did a doctor order the hct, and if so, what did he/she say about the
> results? If nothing, see another doctor, soon.
>
>
>>
>> <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
>> news:[email protected]
>>> I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
>>> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
>>> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
>>> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!!

>
>
 
S

Suz

Guest
"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BE2C1FC4.F7DD2%[email protected]
> Actually..........
>
> It specifically says "10 percentage points".... Meaning more like
> dropping
> from 44 to 40 (4 is 10% of 44) Not dropping from 44 to 34.
>
> I would be concerned more with the accuracy level of the tests? Were they
> done at 2 different places by 2 different labs, etc..
>


Errr, I'm no mathematician... but 44 to 40 is a 10% drop, 44% to 34% is a 10
percentage points drop. Hematocrit is measured in %.

Now, if only the OP would get back to us with the vital details. Or maybe
he's in the hospital...


> On 2/6/05 4:57 PM, in article [email protected], "Suz"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> See a doctor. Soon. You could have renal failure. >

>>
>> Or, more likely, an internal bleeding of some sort. It is not, I repeat
>> NOT
>> normal for a hematocrit to drop 10 points, regardless of what you are- or
>> are not- taking (unless you DID recently stop doping...)
>>> <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
>>>> recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
>>>> bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
>>>> month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!!

>>
>>

>
 
D

Darrell Criswell

Guest
You need to get Iron and Vitamin B12 levels tested. Anemia or iron
deficiency is more of a symptom of a disease than a disease.

On 5 Feb 2005 19:14:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>I had a blood test done recently -- mainly for nutritional
>recommendations -- and it was suggested that I get my hematocrit up a
>bit. The main recommendation was to take a B-complex. After about a
>month, however, my HCT DROPPED by 10 percentage points!! I realize it
>can take a while for it to get back up, but it shouldn't drop like
>that, should it? (I was also told to take l-lysine, acidophiles, fatty
>acids, and increase my protein intake. Could any of these have
>affected the HCT?) Any suggestions? I've read that blackstrap mollasus
>and raw liver extract may help. Is that so? (I feel OK, though I seem
>to have a bit more soreness and twitches after working out.)
 
R

Ronde Chump

Guest
Just want to point out to all participating in this discussion.....

Even if you are using "legal" means to raise your hematocrit, USADA still
considers it cheating. The list of banned substances and methods is not the
only criteria that they use to determine cheating.

ANYTHING that you eat, drink, do, or use to improve your performance or
physiology is considered CHEATING in their view. In addition, to them, it does
not even matter if what you are doing has worked, just the fact that you
attempted to alter your physiology is enough to end your career.

One example that I can think of is the suspension of a rider a few years ago
for having a high t/e ratio. He was using completely "legal" supplements to
raise his level of testerone, but got busted for being a cheater because his
t/e got altered, not because they found anything illegal (which they didn't
AFAIK).

Forewarned is forearmed......

-chump
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 07 Feb 2005 13:38:25 GMT, [email protected] (Ronde Chump) wrote:

>Just want to point out to all participating in this discussion.....
>
>Even if you are using "legal" means to raise your hematocrit, USADA still
>considers it cheating. The list of banned substances and methods is not the
>only criteria that they use to determine cheating.
>
>ANYTHING that you eat, drink, do, or use to improve your performance or
>physiology is considered CHEATING in their view. In addition, to them, it does
>not even matter if what you are doing has worked, just the fact that you
>attempted to alter your physiology is enough to end your career.
>
>One example that I can think of is the suspension of a rider a few years ago
>for having a high t/e ratio. He was using completely "legal" supplements to
>raise his level of testerone, but got busted for being a cheater because his
>t/e got altered, not because they found anything illegal (which they didn't
>AFAIK).
>
>Forewarned is forearmed......


Do tell more please. Where do they draw the line here.

Riding a bike a lot alters your physiology.

Ron
 
R

Ronde Chump

Guest
Ron,

It all depends on the profile of the athlete, and whether it will make a
headline. If you read their propaganda well enough, you'll see that it is
purposfully left ambiguous. That's OK if all they are doing is going after
real cheaters, but that's not the case.

According to their rules, the "training effect" is actually illegal, but
there's no way (i hope) for them to enforce that. Their definitions are so
vague that energy drinks and bars should get you suspended, but they
don't......yet. How many adverts for energy products have your read that don't
say "improves performance"?

Personally, i don't see any difference between using an altitude tent and using
anything that is not specifically on the banned list, BUT, should your HCT go
above 50%, you better watch out. What happens to a guy that has a HCT of 47,
then goes and lives at altitude for a month......all of a sudden he has
"irregular blood values", because its not normal for him.....?

To answer your question....i don't know, and USADA won't tell you. It all
depends on their set of morals and ethics on the day in question.

Why doesn't drinking a can of Mt. Dew get you busted? It gives you an
advantage over the guy that doesn't drink it (at least for 10-20 minutes). Why
does a high HCT get you busted even if they don't find anything "illegal"?

The fact is, anything that you do to improve performance is considered
cheating. Unfortunately, they make no distinction between "improving
performance" and "maximizing performance". If you drive for 15 hours to get to
a race and your competitor flys there, who is more likely to have the best
performance? Did he improve or maximize his performance? If you are training
above your physical capabilities for a long period of time, you'll start to
feel run-down and sluggish at some point. A blood test will show a lower HCT
as well as lowered Iron levels. Is getting an injection of Iron and some B
vitamins to bring you out of the slump "illegal" or not? USADA says it is.

Is getting an IV after a really hot, tough stage in the Tour "legal" or
"illegal"? According to USADA it is "illegal", but everyone knows that the top
teams do it (including the yellow jersey after a well known time trial) so that
the riders don't get dehydrated. What about the teams that can't afford to do
that, are they being cheated?

We can go to extremes on this and still not have any clear picture. A guy has
access to the best medical advice and the latest research. He finds out that
drinking an imported beer, taking 81mg of aspirin, taking 3 children's Sudafed,
and eating 2lbs of spinach just before a race will make him go faster. Next
year, GNC makes a tablet (a really big one) that contains all of these
ingredients. The FDA then classifys it as dangerous because you can die from
having really bad *****, so USADA says that this substance is now "illegal".
Was this guy cheating or not?

Its a really big gray area, but they do have the power to bust you, whether or
not you are taking anything "illegal". It all just depends on how unreasonable
they intend to become.

Food for thought.....

-chump
 

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