Any way of (legally) raising my hematocrit?



T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Suz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>> Now add the way that the blood is drawn and from the location from which
>> it was drawn and it's easy to get a 10 point reading variation.

>
> No, it's not. 10 points is significant.


False readings in electronic platelet counters happens quite often for many
reasons. Some technician that is running the counter can make any number of
errors that would show up as ELEVATED HEMATICRIT. Likewise centrifuges read
a little high because they include the small amount of white cells and
leukocytes and hence many technicians 'correct' these readings downward.

Hematocrit measurements CAN be an exact science but it rarely is.

>> The only true test is a centrifuge.

>
> Wrong again.


Platelet readers are WAY more accurate than manual reading of cell counts.
However, as I said, there's any number of technical errors that can be made
which invalidate the readings of an automatic platelet counter. When you are
using a centrifuge you require a great deal more volume than you do with
platelet counters. This means that the errors in the 'fuge' counts tend to
be due to the corrections from leukocytes and white cells. Since these are,
generally speaking, predictable in normal healthy adults a centrifuge tends
to be a more accurate method of detecting hematocrit than an automatic
platelet counter.

Though I will say that the errors with either tend to be small. However, in
the case of someone claiming that their hct changed by 10 points in a week
you had better take that with a strong dose of salt. In all likelihood there
are some measurement errors and the patient was dehydrated on one occasion.
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Suz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>> Now add the way that the blood is drawn and from the location from which
>> it was drawn and it's easy to get a 10 point reading variation.

>
> No, it's not. 10 points is significant.


False readings in electronic platelet counters happens quite often for many
reasons. Some technician that is running the counter can make any number of
errors that would show up as ELEVATED HEMATICRIT. Likewise centrifuges read
a little high because they include the small amount of white cells and
leukocytes and hence many technicians 'correct' these readings downward.

Hematocrit measurements CAN be an exact science but it rarely is.

>> The only true test is a centrifuge.

>
> Wrong again.


Platelet readers are WAY more accurate than manual reading of cell counts.
However, as I said, there's any number of technical errors that can be made
which invalidate the readings of an automatic platelet counter. When you are
using a centrifuge you require a great deal more volume than you do with
platelet counters. This means that the errors in the 'fuge' counts tend to
be due to the corrections from leukocytes and white cells. Since these are,
generally speaking, predictable in normal healthy adults a centrifuge tends
to be a more accurate method of detecting hematocrit than an automatic
platelet counter.

Though I will say that the errors with either tend to be small. However, in
the case of someone claiming that their hct changed by 10 points in a week
you had better take that with a strong dose of salt. In all likelihood there
are some measurement errors and the patient was dehydrated on one occasion.
 
S

Suz

Guest

>
> Though I will say that the errors with either tend to be small. However,
> in the case of someone claiming that their hct changed by 10 points in a
> week you had better take that with a strong dose of salt. In all
> likelihood there are some measurement errors and the patient was
> dehydrated on one occasion.
>

He said it went down 10 points in "about a MONTH", not a week, and yes that
can happen. It's called GI bleed.

I suppose there IS a possibility the OP misinterpreted something, or got it
wrong somehow, or there was a lab error, but it seems unlikely, since his
ferritin correlates with the low hct. Unless it was someone else's
blood...(my favorite Tyler theory as well...)
 
S

Suz

Guest

>
> Though I will say that the errors with either tend to be small. However,
> in the case of someone claiming that their hct changed by 10 points in a
> week you had better take that with a strong dose of salt. In all
> likelihood there are some measurement errors and the patient was
> dehydrated on one occasion.
>

He said it went down 10 points in "about a MONTH", not a week, and yes that
can happen. It's called GI bleed.

I suppose there IS a possibility the OP misinterpreted something, or got it
wrong somehow, or there was a lab error, but it seems unlikely, since his
ferritin correlates with the low hct. Unless it was someone else's
blood...(my favorite Tyler theory as well...)
 
C

Curtis L. Russell

Guest
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 03:04:26 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Curtis, you're a perfectly intelligent person who made a bad comparison.
>That's all there is to this. People who use illegal drugs don't think that
>same way about "illegal" as people who don't use illegal drugs. People who
>have a beer aren't drunk nor committing any illegal act by driving.
>
>You might as well compare some guy who goes to the rifle range to serial
>murderers.


I have to wonder about your exposure to people that do recreational
drugs. While the only time that I ever tried the stuff was per Army
request and it didn't work (no experience inhaling), I've known many
in the last 40 years or so. Based on quite a few data points, IMO you
are simply wrong about the way most of them think in relationship to
drug use. If anything, they have a much more nuanced approach stemming
from the need to differentiate their drug use from that of people they
consider hard core -and certainly more nuanced than your view.

A person that smokes dope recreationally is no more likely IMO to
injest or take IVs to cheat in bike races. The cheater has a
completely different mental driver to do needles than the doper has to
smoke dope.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Curtis L. Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 03:04:26 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Curtis, you're a perfectly intelligent person who made a bad comparison.
>>That's all there is to this. People who use illegal drugs don't think that
>>same way about "illegal" as people who don't use illegal drugs. People who
>>have a beer aren't drunk nor committing any illegal act by driving.
>>
>>You might as well compare some guy who goes to the rifle range to serial
>>murderers.

>
> I have to wonder about your exposure to people that do recreational
> drugs. While the only time that I ever tried the stuff was per Army
> request and it didn't work (no experience inhaling), I've known many
> in the last 40 years or so. Based on quite a few data points, IMO you
> are simply wrong about the way most of them think in relationship to
> drug use.


Curtis - my brother and his whole rock band died of drugs. Half of the
people I grew up with died of drugs. I played in roick and roll bands when I
was in the Air Force and newly out and was around all sorts of people whose
lives I watch turn to waste. A large percentage of people I raced
motorcycles with died of drugs. I've seen exectutives in major companies who
now can't find a job as clerks because of drugs. A very good friend of mine
who taught jazz guitar had the same experiences as I did, he in Seattle and
I in California.

I've had a great deal more experience with drugs and the people who use them
and the people to deal in the drugs. I used to believe that if you were
mentally superior you could beat drugs and maintain a clear view of the
world around you the same as if you were a light user of alcohol or tobacco.
I've seen that I was wrong. And what convinced me were countless bodies and
wasted lives.

> A person that smokes dope recreationally is no more likely IMO to
> injest or take IVs to cheat in bike races.


That is your opinion and has little foundation to support it. I might even
have agreed with you 25 years ago. Now I know better.
 
C

Curtis L. Russell

Guest
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:33:51 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Curtis - my brother and his whole rock band died of drugs. Half of the
>people I grew up with died of drugs. I played in roick and roll bands when I
>was in the Air Force and newly out and was around all sorts of people whose
>lives I watch turn to waste. A large percentage of people I raced
>motorcycles with died of drugs. I've seen exectutives in major companies who
>now can't find a job as clerks because of drugs. A very good friend of mine
>who taught jazz guitar had the same experiences as I did, he in Seattle and
>I in California.
>
>I've had a great deal more experience with drugs and the people who use them
>and the people to deal in the drugs. I used to believe that if you were
>mentally superior you could beat drugs and maintain a clear view of the
>world around you the same as if you were a light user of alcohol or tobacco.
>I've seen that I was wrong. And what convinced me were countless bodies and
>wasted lives.


Whether or not you have more experience is conjecture on your part.
Three plus years in the DC Jail gives me a fair amount of exposure to
people that are willing to be honest about drugs, seeing as how they
have already been convicted in many cases. Seven years in the Army in
the 70s, some of it in Thailand, 10 years in inner city clinics, some
of it with my office over the methadone clinic (want to see nervous
cops? Check out the guys that are keeping order in the line the half
hour before the clinic opens), plus raising a teenager in the 90s -
don't puff yourself up to being an authority.

And all that has absolutely nothing to do with your premise that
recreational drug users are more likely candidates to be drug cheaters
in bike racing. Stop wandering around NOT defending your own premise.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Curtis L. Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:33:51 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Curtis - my brother and his whole rock band died of drugs. Half of the
>>people I grew up with died of drugs. I played in roick and roll bands when
>>I
>>was in the Air Force and newly out and was around all sorts of people
>>whose
>>lives I watch turn to waste. A large percentage of people I raced
>>motorcycles with died of drugs. I've seen exectutives in major companies
>>who
>>now can't find a job as clerks because of drugs. A very good friend of
>>mine
>>who taught jazz guitar had the same experiences as I did, he in Seattle
>>and
>>I in California.
>>
>>I've had a great deal more experience with drugs and the people who use
>>them
>>and the people to deal in the drugs. I used to believe that if you were
>>mentally superior you could beat drugs and maintain a clear view of the
>>world around you the same as if you were a light user of alcohol or
>>tobacco.
>>I've seen that I was wrong. And what convinced me were countless bodies
>>and
>>wasted lives.

>
> Whether or not you have more experience is conjecture on your part.


You misinterpreted what I was saying - I was saying that I have a great
deal MORE experience with those I mentioned. I was not questioning your
experience, but your apparent belief that somehow drug users are just
misunderstood but honest people.

> Three plus years in the DC Jail gives me a fair amount of exposure to
> people that are willing to be honest about drugs, seeing as how they
> have already been convicted in many cases. Seven years in the Army in
> the 70s, some of it in Thailand, 10 years in inner city clinics, some
> of it with my office over the methadone clinic (want to see nervous
> cops? Check out the guys that are keeping order in the line the half
> hour before the clinic opens), plus raising a teenager in the 90s -
> don't puff yourself up to being an authority.
>
> And all that has absolutely nothing to do with your premise that
> recreational drug users are more likely candidates to be drug cheaters
> in bike racing. Stop wandering around NOT defending your own premise.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...
 

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