Anybody ever seen a cracked Merlin Ti frame?



J

Joe

Guest
I'm considering going to a nice lightweight titanium frame
and really like what I've seen with Merlin. I am a little
concerned about the durability of the frame, given I have
heard titantium may not be as durable as steel. However, I
do want something that is much lighter weight, without the
durability issues associated with carbon. Has anybody ever
seen a Merlin frame with cracks in it? Or is anybody aware
of any other durability issues associated with Merlin?
 
> I'm considering going to a nice lightweight titanium frame
> and really like what I've seen with Merlin. I am a little
> concerned about the durability of the frame, given I have
> heard titantium may not be as durable as steel. However, I
> do want something that is much lighter weight, without the
> durability issues associated with carbon. Has anybody ever
> seen a Merlin frame with cracks in it? Or is anybody aware
> of any other durability issues associated with Merlin?

I've personally seen several, including one that failed on a
ride (I suppose they all did, but this particular one made
itself known quite well by making quite a bit of noise!).
But that doesn't mean anything about Titanium, other than
the fact that they had tried to make those particular frames
lighter than they should have. Titanium is *not* the
material of choice if you want to go ultralight, but builds
a very solid frame somewhere just about 3 pounds+, from my
experience watching what happens in the real world. By the
way, I'm not trying to pick on Merlin here; they make fine
frames, and have been known to take care of problems when
they occur.

I wouldn't dismiss carbon durability though; we've got quite
a number of them out in the field, pounding out mile after
mile under very large riders, with no issues. If you are
that concerned about carbon, then you're going to have to
spend quite a bit of time trying to find an alternative
fork, since nearly everybody uses carbon forks these days,
and there's probably nothing more important (from a safety
standpoint) than your fork.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm considering going to a nice lightweight titanium frame
> and really like what I've seen with Merlin. I am a little
> concerned about the durability of the frame, given I have
> heard titantium may not be as durable as steel. However, I
> do want something that is much lighter weight, without the
> durability issues associated with carbon. Has anybody ever
> seen a Merlin frame with cracks in it? Or is anybody aware
> of any other durability issues associated with Merlin?
 
"Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm considering going to a nice lightweight titanium frame
> and really like what I've seen with Merlin. I am a little
> concerned about the durability of the frame, given I have
> heard titantium may not be as durable as steel. However, I
> do want something that is much lighter weight, without the
> durability issues associated with carbon. Has anybody ever
> seen a Merlin frame with cracks in it? Or is anybody aware
> of any other durability issues associated with Merlin?

Yes, ti tubing is not immune from failure. Recently, like
last week, a friend of mine discovered that his older Massachusett-
made Merlin which he's been riding for over 10 years had a
nice big crack in the downtube around the shifter boss. This
is the *regular* model Merlin, not the extralight! He's
extremely disappointed given that ti had the reputation of
being as durable, if not more durable, than other materials,
including steel. Fortunately for him, Litespeed/Merlin is
honoring his lifetime warranty and will be repairing the
frame for free.

In contrast, I have a Carbonframes (now Calfee) tetra
custom carbon fiber frame and have crashed it numerous
times, including causing personal injury to myself. I have
had a couple of things come "unglued" - dropouts, shifter
ti band (used on older Carbonframes) - all were repaired
*under warranty*, but never, never has the carbon tubing or
joints failed.

I think the key to buying any lightweight frame of any
material is to get one from a company that will standard
behind its product. I know litespeed/merlin will. So will
Calfee. Trek's lifetime warranty and dealer network is also
fantastic. If you want one of the newer lightweight steel
frames, find a good builder or look to someone like
Waterford or Serotta.
 
Joe wrote:

> I'm considering going to a nice lightweight titanium frame
> and really like what I've seen with Merlin. I am a little
> concerned about the durability of the frame, given I have
> heard titantium may not be as durable as steel. However, I
> do want something that is much lighter weight, without the
> durability issues associated with carbon. Has anybody ever
> seen a Merlin frame with cracks in it? Or is anybody aware
> of any other durability issues associated with Merlin?

Well, Ti fatigues a little more readily than steel (which is
excellent in that respect). However, the only results I've
seen from a destructive frame test had steel frames that
broke first, and alu frames that carried on going until they
switched the machine off. The conclusion I draw from this is
that correct design (tube sizes, butting) and construction
quality (e.g. not overheating the welds) is far more
important than the properties of the raw material.

I don't think this answers your specific question, but
others have already done that ;-)
 
Zog The Undeniable <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, Ti fatigues a little more readily than steel (which
> is excellent in that respect). However, the only results
> I've seen from a destructive frame test had steel frames
> that broke first, and alu frames that carried on going
> until they switched the machine off. The conclusion I draw
> from this is that correct design (tube sizes, butting) and
> construction quality (e.g. not overheating the welds) is
> far more important than the properties of the raw
> material.

What test was that? The article that appeared in the German
"Tour" magazine a few years ago described failures of steel
and alu frames as I recall.

Art Harris
 
On Thu, 27 May 2004 20:19:34 GMT, Harris
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Zog The Undeniable <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Well, Ti fatigues a little more readily than steel (which
>> is excellent in that respect). However, the only results
>> I've seen from a destructive frame test had steel frames
>> that broke first, and alu frames that carried on going
>> until they switched the machine off. The conclusion I
>> draw from this is that correct design (tube sizes,
>> butting) and construction quality (e.g. not overheating
>> the welds) is far more important than the properties of
>> the raw material.
>
>What test was that? The article that appeared in the German
>"Tour" magazine a few years ago described failures of steel
>and alu frames as I recall.
>
>Art Harris

Dear Art,

This may be the article that you have in mind:

<http://www.efbe.de/etour109.htm>

It included two titanium frames.

Carl Fogel
 
[email protected] (Joe) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm considering going to a nice lightweight titanium frame
> and really like what I've seen with Merlin. I am a little
> concerned about the durability of the frame, given I have
> heard titantium may not be as durable as steel. However, I
> do want something that is much lighter weight, without the
> durability issues associated with carbon. Has anybody ever
> seen a Merlin frame with cracks in it? Or is anybody aware
> of any other durability issues associated with Merlin?

Anything worth riding that is ridden will break eventually.
Choose your bike for some other reason than material alone.

I was somewhat concerned that the engraving and cutouts on
the 2004 Merlin will simply serve as stress risers. Time
will tell.

Some high price bicycles have a one year warranty,
whereas some other high price bicycles have a lifetime
warranty. Warranties do not transfer from the original
owner for any bicycle.
 
WooGoogle wrote:

> Some high price bicycles have a one year warranty, whereas
> some other high price bicycles have a lifetime warranty.
> Warranties do not transfer from the original owner for any
> bicycle.

You can transfer a Calfee warranty by sending the frame and
fork to Calfee for inspection, and including $250. A little
pricey for an inspection, but there it is:

http://calfeedesign.com/warranty.shtml

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
chicago-<< However, I do want something that is much lighter
weight, without the durability issues associated with
carbon. >><BR><BR>

What durability issues would that be? A well made carbon
frameset will be light and last a lifetime. if ya crash hard
enough to kill carbon, you will kill titanium also.

A thin walled titanium, or steel or aluminum frameset may
have durability issues.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>I'm considering going to a nice lightweight titanium frame
>and really like what I've seen with Merlin. I am a little
>concerned about the durability of the frame, given I have
>heard titantium may not be as durable as steel. However, I
>do want something that is much lighter weight, without the
>durability issues associated with carbon. Has anybody ever
>seen a Merlin frame with cracks in it? Or is anybody aware
>of any other durability issues associated with Merlin?

Buy from a reputable bike company and don't worry about
durability. How the bike is put together is more important
than the material used. I wonder what kind of carbon frame
durability issues you have heard about? I think just about
every company has had a frame break at some point. I know
someone who did have a Merlin frame break. They got it
replaced under warranty.
--------------

Alex
 

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