Anybody register for the Triple Bypass?



alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by An old Guy .


The shifters would not have mattered. I physically could not turn the crank in the gear I was in. I was paying attention to something other than riding and found myself doing a track stand in a [COLOR= #ff0000]53/13(?)[/COLOR] on a 10% hill.
FYI. Okay, ignoring the disconnect between the "[COLOR= #ff0000]53/13(?)[/COLOR]" gearing you apparently found yourself in & your suggestion that gearing higher than a 50/14 is "just pretending" let me say that ...

... if you hadn't been distracted + had come to your senses while the rear wheel was still rotating at a minimum of a few RPM, then you could have successfully downshifted to a larger cog if your bike had Campagnolo shifters!

Again, if there had been some chain movement prior to bailing out, then you could have successfully moved (dumped?) your chain onto the inner ring with a Campagnolo shifter ... and/or, most other shifter brands, BTW, unless your cables are binding in their housing.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Wow... quite the diatribe.
How is providing a serious reply to your snarky remark ("[COLOR= #808080]Maybe you could tell TZ in his "ebay foilbles..." thread that his expensive wrist watches with **** poor time keeping might be more accurate with the addition of a Super Record brifter.[/COLOR]") a diatribe?

  • Regardless, it is apparently worth repeating, one of the beauties of Campagnolo's shifters is that the least expensive ([COLOR= #808080]even the Xenon + Xenon-based 2007-2009 QS shifters[/COLOR]) are as functionally effiicient as the most expensive Campagnolo shifter -- with a Campagnolo shiftter, if you want to move the chain to a larger cog or chainring the amount of load on the chain is irrelevant.

  • While some may say THAT is true of Shimano shifters, I don't think it is the case, and apparently neither do MANY Shimano users otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to buy anything nicer than Tiagra components unless the rider is being sponsored.


Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Without even knowing what the OP has on his bike and in the second post in this thread you said that they should consider changing to Campagnolo shifters. For all we know the OP has a Campag equipped bike. The OP didn't even mention equipment at that point.
It is a safe bet to say that most off-the-peg bikes are Shimano or SRAM equipped, but ...

FYI. CyclinYooper had previously mentioned that he had a bought a then-new bike ([COLOR= #808080]a year-or-so ago[/COLOR]) which had an 8-speed ([COLOR= #808080]hence, ¿SORA?[/COLOR]) drivetrain ...

I did NOT know that he had bought a new bike in November, however.

Am I that remiss for not keeping track of what everyone rides?!?

Regardless, based on MY experience with the oft mentioned 6500 Ultegra drivetrain that I briefly used + immediate to the area mountain roads, my thinking was that CyclinYooper's rides in the East Mountains had to have been heroic endeavors with his Sora-equipped bike ...

  • If YOU ([COLOR= #808080]swampy1970, or anyone else[/COLOR]) think that SORA is so great, then why aren't you using it on your bikes? Do you really need more than 8 gears?

Without knowing that CyclinYooper had bought a new bike, engaging in a 100+ mile ride of equal-or-greater terrain change would have been a Herculean undertaking without his swapping his Sora shifters to Campagnolo shifters ...


Originally Posted by swampy1970 .


But all that needs to be said is that you're making stuff up and your hair hurts because you can't keep up with lie.
Really?!?

You have to tell me what I have stated which doesn't mesh with your current World View that you apparently consider to be a "lie" ...

I hope what you might consider to be a "lie" isn't based on something Lennard Zinn may have written in the past ...

BTW. One of Sheldon Brown's inexplicable statements involved his inability to use an 8-speed Campagnolo wheel with a Shimano drivetrain, and vice-versa, BECAUSE the only way it wouldn't work is if he tried to hot-swap the wheels without adjusting the stops & tweaking the indexing.

The SAME-or-SIMILAR had to be true for whatever "test" Zinn (?) performed when mating Campagnolo shifters with Shimano derailleurs/etc.

Very lazy on the part of both individuals, IMO.

Of course, Zinn, however, couldn't deny that Campagnolo shifters work with SRAM since Campagnolo TT shifters had been used a season earlier by a (domestic) team which otherwise used SRAM components prior to his revealing that the Campagnolo-SRAM mating worked well.

Zinn, as a retailer, musn't ruffle the feathers of any of his vendors ... after all, if someone wants Shimano because it is what Lance used, or SRAM because it is what Contador/Leipheimer/whomever used, well Zinn certainly wants to be able to provide it for his buyer at the cost retailer's pay rather than what retailer's charge else he lose THAT portion of the sale & consequently some of the potential overall profit.

If, by chance, due to Zinn's remarks or those of others, you consequently don't think the shifting with the unauthorized mating can be "flawless" then it is easily confirmed-or-refuted with a simple test rather than protesting as a mindless parrot who doesn't know what he is saying:

  • Campagnolo shifters are comparatively cheap on eBay & can be easily resold ...
  • all that may be lost is the postage + the modest amount of time to "install" the shifters ...
[*] BUT, you might find that you didn't have to spend an extra $2000 for your new bike to have 7900 components vs. 105-or-Ultegra components + Campagnolo shifters + a better frame/wheels AND/OR fatter wallet.


In MY world, it is still less expensive to spend $200-or-less to upgrade a bike with a set of Campagnolo shifters than to spend $1200-to-$2000 for a new Ultegra-or-DA group to achieve better shifting ...

OR, are you of a political persuasion whose math skills can't make that equation work?

BTW. I think that an all-Campagnolo drivetrain isn't necessarily a wise way to spend money, too ... but, regardless of the rider, at least a Campagnolo drivetrain will shift under all circumstances.
 

swampy1970

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Feb 3, 2008
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Originally Posted by alfeng .


How is providing a serious reply to your snarky remark ("[COLOR= #808080]Maybe you could tell TZ in his "ebay foilbles..." thread that his expensive wrist watches with **** poor time keeping might be more accurate with the addition of a Super Record brifter.[/COLOR]") a diatribe?

  • Regardless, it is apparently worth repeating, one of the beauties of Campagnolo's shifters is that the least expensive ([COLOR= #808080]even the Xenon + Xenon-based 2007-2009 QS shifters[/COLOR]) are as functionally effiicient as the most expensive Campagnolo shifter -- with a Campagnolo shiftter, if you want to move the chain to a larger cog or chainring the amount of load on the chain is irrelevant.

  • While some may say THAT is true of Shimano shifters, I don't think it is the case, and apparently neither do MANY Shimano users otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to buy anything nicer than Tiagra components unless the rider is being sponsored.



It is a safe bet to say that most off-the-peg bikes are Shimano or SRAM equipped, but ...

FYI. CyclinYooper had previously mentioned that he had a bought a then-new bike ([COLOR= #808080]a year-or-so ago[/COLOR]) which had an 8-speed ([COLOR= #808080]hence, ¿SORA?[/COLOR]) drivetrain ...

I did NOT know that he had bought a new bike in November, however.

Am I that remiss for not keeping track of what everyone rides?!?

Regardless, based on MY experience with the oft mentioned 6500 Ultegra drivetrain that I briefly used + immediate to the area mountain roads, my thinking was that CyclinYooper's rides in the East Mountains had to have been heroic endeavors with his Sora-equipped bike ...

  • If YOU ([COLOR= #808080]swampy1970, or anyone else[/COLOR]) think that SORA is so great, then why aren't you using it on your bikes? Do you really need more than 8 gears?

Without knowing that CyclinYooper had bought a new bike, engaging in a 100+ mile ride of equal-or-greater terrain change would have been a Herculean undertaking without his swapping his Sora shifters to Campagnolo shifters ...



Really?!?

You have to tell me what I have stated which doesn't mesh with your current World View that you apparently consider to be a "lie" ...

I hope what you might consider to be a "lie" isn't based on something Lennard Zinn may have written in the past ...

BTW. One of Sheldon Brown's inexplicable statements involved his inability to use an 8-speed Campagnolo wheel with a Shimano drivetrain, and vice-versa, BECAUSE the only way it wouldn't work is if he tried to hot-swap the wheels without adjusting the stops & tweaking the indexing.

The SAME-or-SIMILAR had to be true for whatever "test" Zinn (?) performed when mating Campagnolo shifters with Shimano derailleurs/etc.

Very lazy on the part of both individuals, IMO.

Of course, Zinn, however, couldn't deny that Campagnolo shifters work with SRAM since Campagnolo TT shifters had been used a season earlier by a (domestic) team which otherwise used SRAM components prior to his revealing that the Campagnolo-SRAM mating worked well.

Zinn, as a retailer, musn't ruffle the feathers of any of his vendors ... after all, if someone wants Shimano because it is what Lance used, or SRAM because it is what Contador/Leipheimer/whomever used, well Zinn certainly wants to be able to provide it for his buyer at the cost retailer's pay rather than what retailer's charge else he lose THAT portion of the sale & consequently some of the potential overall profit.

If, by chance, due to Zinn's remarks or those of others, you consequently don't think the shifting with the unauthorized mating can be "flawless" then it is easily confirmed-or-refuted with a simple test rather than protesting as a mindless parrot who doesn't know what he is saying:

  • Campagnolo shifters are comparatively cheap on eBay & can be easily resold ...
  • all that may be lost is the postage + the modest amount of time to "install" the shifters ...
[*] BUT, you might find that you didn't have to spend an extra $2000 for your new bike to have 7900 components vs. 105-or-Ultegra components + Campagnolo shifters + a better frame/wheels AND/OR fatter wallet.


In MY world, it is still less expensive to spend $200-or-less to upgrade a bike with a set of Campagnolo shifters than to spend $1200-to-$2000 for a new Ultegra-or-DA group to achieve better shifting ...

OR, are you of a political persuasion whose math skills can't make that equation work?

BTW. I think that an all-Campagnolo drivetrain isn't necessarily a wise way to spend money, too ... but, regardless of the rider, at least a Campagnolo drivetrain will shift under all circumstances.

... and another volume of War and Peace was written.

I said it was a diatribe because it's a lot of waffle based upon many assumptions - like you assuming the equipment the OP had and assuming that the OP was unhappy with the way his bike performed. For all we know the guy could be very happy with equipment.

I'm not a betting man but I find it hard to believe that it'd hardly be a "herculean task" to ride 100 miles on Sora equipment. I can imagine the ride would bring enough challenges but none of them caused or made harder by ANY of Shimano's offerings.

Unless something is broken - there is no functional need to go out any buy new levers. None.

You don't need to keep track of what people ride - that'd be silly. Just like recommending that people must upgrade shifters is silly without the question first being asked "my sh1t is broken, what can I replace it with?"

I don't doubt that other combinations of Campag/SRAM/Shimano work - it's that I find it laughable that you say that people MUST change their shifters otherwise riding would just be a miserable experience, ruined by poor shifting.

I remember when 105SC STI came out and it worked fine and dandy back in the mid 90's and I find it hard to believe that things went down hill after that. I've never found the need to even consider changing any of my Shimano equipment because it didn't work well from new.

You're right - I didn't have to spend an extra $2000 on my bike to get the Dura Ace equiped model because at the time the Dura Ace equiped model was the bottom of the line for the SuperSix Hi-Mod. Another one of your assumptions again. It was the "default" choice. Actually, if you added up the cost of all the parts back then bare frame/forks ($3800), Cannondale Si Hollogram cranks ($~900), Mavic Ksyrium SL Premium ($1,300), FSA carbon monocoque bars (~$250), FSA Carbon Stem ($140) and Fizik saddle ($120) you'd actually find I'd already be $500+ over what I paid for the entire Dura Ace equiped bike after taxes. So stick that one where your rebate forms don't shine, bucko...

;)
 
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alienator

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Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Unless something is broken - there is no functional need to go out any buy new levers. None.
That's about the sum of it for any gruppo from the big three. None of them offer **** gear. In fact all the gruppos, even the bottom tier stuff, likely perform better than any indexed drivetrains offered in the nineties or even early 2000's. I've only heard one person complain about Shimano shifting when climbing being substandard, and that person is Alfeng. For the record, I'm not Shimano sycophant. Shimano shifters don't work for me, but that's just a personal preference, not critique of the quality of their function. I like SRAM shifters even less, but again, they have no issue's with the quality of the their function.

The idea that more folks don't complain or notice the non-existent flaw in Shimano shifting because they subconsciously compensate when pedaling is laughable. It's just like saying the reason more people don't remember their alien abductions is because their memories have been erased by their alien abductors. To support wild claims, people often resort to making up improbable or wildly fantastic explanations to keep peace in their self-consistent universes.
 
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CyclinYooper

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Jan 9, 2011
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Originally Posted by alfeng .

FYI. CyclinYooper had previously mentioned that he had a bought a then-new bike ([COLOR= #808080]a year-or-so ago[/COLOR]) which had an 8-speed ([COLOR= #808080]hence, ¿SORA?[/COLOR]) drivetrain ...

I did NOT know that he had bought a new bike in November, however.

Am I that remiss for not keeping track of what everyone rides?!?

Regardless, based on MY experience with the oft mentioned 6500 Ultegra drivetrain that I briefly used + immediate to the area mountain roads, my thinking was that CyclinYooper's rides in the East Mountains had to have been heroic endeavors with his Sora-equipped bike ...
Now we're getting somewhere! Heroic effort ... I like the sound of that! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Yes, I did previously have an 8-speed Sora drive-train on my GT Series 4. Good memory alf.

I personally did not have any shifting issues that affected my ability to conquer the big hills, so I never made any changes. I guess I figured that if I ever had a problem, I'd think about looking at the campy control levers.

As for my new bike, and it's SRAM drive-train: I didn't have an option, and it was too expensive to build from the frame up. Like my old bike, I probably won't change anything unless I have an issue. Also, the SRAM shiftters ... they just fit my hand really well, so I've been happy with them.

Either way, I'm like a big sponge; I welcome any advice or feedback and store for later.

Scott
 

alienator

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Originally Posted by CyclinYooper .


Now we're getting somewhere! Heroic effort ... I like the sound of that! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Yes, I did previously have an 8-speed Sora drive-train on my GT Series 4. Good memory alf.

I personally did not have any shifting issues that affected my ability to conquer the big hills, so I never made any changes. I guess I figured that if I ever had a problem, I'd think about looking at the campy control levers.

As for my new bike, and it's SRAM drive-train: I didn't have an option, and it was too expensive to build from the frame up. Like my old bike, I probably won't change anything unless I have an issue. Also, the SRAM shiftters ... they just fit my hand really well, so I've been happy with them.

Either way, I'm like a big sponge; I welcome any advice or feedback and store for later.

Scott
Such things are heroic if you don't have the right gears or if there's just a ton of climbing. Having only an 8 spd cassette--as you did in the past--doesn't necessarily make such a ride heroic. There's just no getting around the fact that the TBP is tough. Two days in a row will be tougher, no doubt.

What sort of gearing do you have on your bike? If you've got the option to select a cassette with lower gearing, you should consider doing that in order to make the two days as easy as possible. Part of getting through Day 2 is going to be having conserved enough energy and recovered well from Day 1. A low geared cassette will help with the energy conservation, and more importantly you can help yourself by managing your pace on Day 1 with the knowledge that you've got Day 2 coming up. For both those reasons, you should consider starting a thread or threads in the "Cycling Training" sub-forum asking what kind of training would be best and how to best optimize recovery once Day 1's ride is done. You'll also need to take care to eat and drink optimally on both days. That could be the subject of another thread in "Cycling Training". It does take a fair number of calories to climb 20,000 feet and ride 240 miles in two days.

For inspiration, you may want to pick up the current issue (09) of Peloton magazine. There's a story in there written by a wily Brit who in 30 hours and 43 minutes rode the length of the Raid Pyrénéen (a race from the Atlantic to the Med, through the Pyrenees Mtns) on his own, a ride that covered 435 miles and 36,000 ft of climbing.
 

CyclinYooper

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Originally Posted by alienator .

Having only an 8 spd cassette--as you did in the past--doesn't necessarily make such a ride heroic. There's just no getting around the fact that the TBP is tough. Two days in a row will be tougher, no doubt.
Ah, I was just joking about the heroic part (trying to inject a little humor)! Seriously, there are hundreds of people who ride the Albuquerque east mountains, and I'm sure they were doing it long ago, with even less than 8 speeds! A personal triumph and a completed goal for me, yes, but heroic, or even unique, certainly not!

I used an 11-28 Shimano cassette on the 8-speed, now I have a SRAM 11-28 10-speed. For climbing the cassettes are nearly identical (Shimano had 19-21-24-28, now my SRAM has 19-22-25-28). Both bikes had a 50/34 crank. It's worked pretty well for me; although I could always throw an 11-32 on for the TBP for a little more comfort.

I'm only riding the single, on Sunday. 10000 feet in one day will be a large step up for me! ~5000 in a day is the most I've done. My riding buddy, however, is doing the double. He's done much more long-distance/multi-day tours, however.

I will get a "how do I train" post going in the cycling training forum. Good idea. I also have a couple friends who have ridden it. I expect to pick their brains pretty soon.

Scott
 

alienator

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Originally Posted by CyclinYooper .

I'm only riding the single, on Sunday. 10000 feet in one day will be a large step up for me! ~5000 in a day is the most I've done. My riding buddy, however, is doing the double. He's done much more long-distance/multi-day tours, however.

I will get a "how do I train" post going in the cycling training forum. Good idea. I also have a couple friends who have ridden it. I expect to pick their brains pretty soon.

Scott
Ah, there's another guy riding the double that's posted recently and I confused the two threads.

You'll likely want to add quite few more 5000ft days into your schedule. There's no getting around the fact that most of the time is spent going uphill on the TBP. Climbing should become a big part of your riding, as should training to improve strength and endurance. Those are things people can address in the sub-forum I mentioned. What's the longest ride/most time you've spent in the saddle in a single day?
 

swampy1970

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Feb 3, 2008
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I'm not what you'd call God's gift to cycling nor am I the waif that I once was but with some basic pacing and gearing choices I still manage rides like the Alta Alpina Challenge - 8 passes, 197 miles and 21,000+ft of climbing in a day.

This past year I hardly did any hill work, mostly 2 to 4 hour rides with one 12 hour ride the month before. Most weekends in the month prior were 3 to 4 hours on both saturday and Sunday.

Pacing - with the event averaging 7,000ft and my trainIng at mostly 100ft, the power chose was borderline top end L1, which migrated to mid L2 on some of the long hard sections. When adjusted for altitude those levels worked fairly well. It feels too easy at the start but that changes after 100+ miles in the hills at altitude - especially if you encounter adverse heat, or as was more usual for the ride in question, cold.

Gearing. People never complain about having a bail out gear that's too small. It having a gear that's not small enough makes life sucky at the end of a ride. Read ride notes about gradients on the course and make sure you have a gear on the bike to get up such grades with relative ease, especially if the gnarly bits on day 2 (if you do both days) are at the end.

Weight - lose whatever you can. On a 7% grade, for a given speed 1lb is worth 1 watt - loose a bunch of weight you've got free speed and/or an easier ride. You've also reduced the energy required to complete the course and if you've lost a bunch of fat you've also made staying cooler a whole bunch easier. A win, win situation.

Food - if you plan on using the ride provided energy drinks and food then that's what you need to try in training. Get used to eating on the bike to avoid wasting time at rest stops. The last place you want to find out that "drink x" gives you gas...Or worse...is many thousands of feet up a mountain and an hours climb away from a porta crapper. A regular sized bottle per hour unless it's hot is fine 150 to 250kcals per hour should do the trick - ymmv. How you get those calories is upto you - I dig hammer perpetuem whenever possible with a few bits and pieces to nibble on. A slice of orange at a rest stop will help freshen your mouth and something bland but a bit savory with help reduce the possibility of that "washed out - drank too much" feeling. During the ride don't cart around two full bottles if you plan on hitting the next rest stop an hour or so down the road...

Weather + mountains. Have a means to stay warm. Dry is secondary. A cheap disposable rain cape can save the day. I recall on the death ride 2009 (I think it was that year) on the final pass it went from 90f to ~40f and pea sized hail in the space of 10 minutes.

Tires - make sure they're suitable for the course if there's lots a suspect road surfaces. Inflate accordingly.

There's plenty of more info out there but that should give you a fighting chance in addition to a well planned training schedule.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by swampy1970 .


I said it was a diatribe because it's a lot of waffle based upon many assumptions - like you assuming the equipment the OP had and assuming that the OP was unhappy with the way his bike performed. For all we know the guy could be very happy with equipment.

I'm not a betting man but I find it hard to believe that it'd hardly be a "herculean task" to ride 100 miles on Sora equipment. I can imagine the ride would bring enough challenges but none of them caused or made harder by ANY of Shimano's offerings.

Unless something is broken - there is no functional need to go out any buy new levers. None.

You don't need to keep track of what people ride - that'd be silly. Just like recommending that people must upgrade shifters is silly without the question first being asked "my sh1t is broken, what can I replace it with?"

I don't doubt that other combinations of Campag/SRAM/Shimano work - it's that I find it laughable that you say that people [COLOR= #0000ff]MUST[/COLOR] change their shifters otherwise riding would just be a miserable experience, ruined by poor shifting.

I remember when 105SC STI came out and it worked fine and dandy back in the mid 90's and I find it hard to believe that things went down hill after that. I've never found the need to even consider changing any of my Shimano equipment because it didn't work well from new.
Geez ...

Even AFTER CyclinYooper confirmed that his older bike has SORA components, you still act as if I fabricated that information ... there was NO assumption on that fact other than by YOU!

---​

Now, people who don't know, don't know ...

Your (and, alienator's) suggestion that the shifting is fine with SORA components rings hollow since you don't seem willing to use it on any of your bikes OR are you using high-zoot components simply for bling?

Your collective suggestion that the shifting is fine is akin to someone who has never used a transmission with synchromesh saying that double-clutching works just fine ... sure. you can get from point A to point B ... heck, it would be even better if the vehicle had an automatic transmission than a manual transmission IF YOU KNEW IT EXISTED AS YET ANOTHER OPTION?

  • of course, in the case of Campagnolo & presumably SRAM shifters, the practical difference is negligible from model to model

  • there's a reason that Shimano came up with Rapid Rise rear derailleurs EVEN THOUGH they are still only available as MTB derailleurs.

People who don't know, don't know.

Regardless, how is "give serious consideration" a "[COLOR= #0000ff]MUST[/COLOR]" command, as you indicate, to replace the SORA shifters with a set of Campagnolo shifters? It seems as though you have morphed my comment because you may have become a little too defensive about equipping ([COLOR= #808080]or, choosing a bike so-equipped[/COLOR]) your most recenet bike with DA components.

BTW. While it is possible you had more than a parking-lot test ride on a Campagnolo equipped bike, unless the ride includes climbs of significantly more than a 30 foot rise, I don't think it is a test of what shifters can-or-cannot do ...

REGARDLESS, it isn't the bike OR the number of gears which would make it a task to ride the TBP, it is the shifters ... you don't need gears to ride on Mountain roadways:


I suppose that if 'I' am the only rider who rides when closer to momentary fatigue than not THEN 'I' might be the only person who is apparently clumsy enough to have caused MY Shimano drivetrain to balk when downshifting while the driveetrain is under a load ... regardless, 'I' have found that with the Campagnolo shifters that 'I' don't have to worry about MY clumsy downshifting.

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

You're right - I didn't have to spend an extra $2000 on my bike to get the Dura Ace equiped model because at the time the Dura Ace equiped model was the bottom of the line for the SuperSix Hi-Mod. Another one of your assumptions again. It was the "default" choice. Actually, if you added up the cost of all the parts back then bare frame/forks ($3800), Cannondale Si Hollogram cranks ($~900), [COLOR= #ff0000]Mavic Ksyrium SL Premium[/COLOR] ($1,300), FSA carbon monocoque bars (~$250), FSA Carbon Stem ($140) and Fizik saddle ($120) you'd actually find I'd already be $500+ over what I paid for the entire Dura Ace equiped bike after taxes. So stick that one where your rebate forms don't shine, bucko...
Oooh!

Aren't you the WISE SHOPPER?!?

Don't hurt yourself by patting yourself on your back for having spent whatever it is you paid for your most recent bike ...

---​

I hope you know that your apparent BFF alienator has, as I recall ([COLOR= #808080]perhaps in error[/COLOR]), dissed [COLOR= #ff0000]MAVIC Ksyrium SL [/COLOR]wheels in the past ...

Regardless, about 10 years ago, I had a Ksyrium SSC SL wheelset which had about 1800 +/- miles on them ... at about that time, it was disclosed ([COLOR= #808080]in VeloNews & probably elsewhere[/COLOR]) that the Freehub might need to be replaced after about 3000 miles if a lot of coasting was involved ...

I love to coast!

Consequently, I sold my Ksyrium SSC SL wheels ASAP thereafter, so I'm going to suggest ([COLOR= #808080]vs. "command"![/COLOR]) that you might want to sell-and-replace them at some point in time unless you don't mind paying the used-to-be-$65-nuisance-cost ([COLOR= #808080]and, it's probably more, now[/COLOR]) for a replacemenet Freehub body after every 3000+ miles.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by alienator .


That's about the sum of it for any gruppo from the big three. None of them offer **** gear. In fact all the gruppos, even the bottom tier stuff, likely perform better than any indexed drivetrains offered in the nineties or even early 2000's. [COLOR= #ff0000]I've only heard one person complain about Shimano shifting when climbing being substandard, and that person is Alfeng[/COLOR]. For the record, I'm not Shimano sycophant. [COLOR= #0000ff]Shimano shifters don't work for me[/COLOR], but that's just a [COLOR= #0000ff]personal preference[/COLOR], not critique of the quality of their function. I like SRAM shifters even less, but again, they have no issue's with the quality of the their function.

The idea that more folks don't complain or notice the non-existent flaw in Shimano shifting because they subconsciously compensate when pedaling is laughable. It's just like saying the reason more people don't remember their alien abductions is because their memories have been erased by their alien abductors. To support wild claims, people often resort to making up improbable or wildly fantastic explanations to keep peace in their self-consistent universes.
REALLY?

If you believe your own statement that 'I' am the only person who has "[COLOR= #ff0000]compain(ed) about Shimano shifting when climbing being substandard ...[/COLOR]" then you may want to have tests for early Alzheimer performed and/or check your reading comprehension ...

In addition to the commenets of OTHERS in other threads in this Forum who have experienced balky shifting, it has been addressed at least one time by VeloNews.Com and/or VeloNews ([COLOR= #808080]which I have every reason to believe you read[/COLOR]) ...

  • as YOU know, a Campagnolo shifter will move the chain to the next cog or chainring as long as the the rear wheel is moving at a few RPM,
  • but, as you feign ignorance about, the same cannot be said for Shimano shifters at the same slow RPM without slightly unloading the drivetrain by a slight acceleration & backing off prior to shifting ... it's not unlike what a train locomotive does before starting off, but of course, not exactly so
  • I presume that you understand the analogy, but if you don't then let me know.

OR, are you just posturing, now, simply to be a smart aleck?

And, REALLY?

What, specifically, is it about Shimano's shifters which "[COLOR= #0000ff]don't work for[/COLOR]" YOU? "[COLOR= #0000ff]Personal preference[/COLOR]"? That's a pretty lame reason to give by someone who often seemed-and-seems to want something more quantitative!

People don't "complain about a non-existent flaw" if the status quo is all they know ...

  • People thought that the emperor's new clothes looked great ...

People who don't know, don't know.
 

oldbobcat

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2003
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I smell a thread hijacking here.

Yooper, good luck with the triple bypass. I missed the registration window so I won't be doing it. My climbing was pretty flat last year so the Bypass wasn't high on my list.

If I do it next year, though, you can bet it will be on a steel mountain bike (probably a Bridgestone MB-2) that has been converted to a road bike with 650b wheels, cantilever brakes, a SRAM rear derailleur, a Shimano front derailleur, and Campagnolo control levers with a travel agent on the front derailleur cable.

Aw, hell. Mark Twain once said beware of enterprises that require the purchase of new clothes. Or new equipment, as the case may be. Think I'll ride to Carter Lake tomorrow.
 

alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

If I do it next year, though, you can bet it will be on a steel mountain bike (probably a [COLOR= #0000ff]Bridgestone MB-2[/COLOR]) that has been converted to a road bike with 650b wheels, cantilever brakes, a SRAM rear derailleur, a Shimano front derailleur, and [COLOR= #ff0000]Campagnolo control levers with a travel agent on the front derailleur cable[/COLOR].
[COLOR= #0000ff]Nice frame [/COLOR][COLOR= #000000]+ component combination ...[/COLOR]

BTW. You should note that ANY cable operated front derailleur from ANY vintage can be used with a Campagnolo front shifter ... and, the [COLOR= #ff0000]travel agent is superfluous[/COLOR].
 

oldbobcat

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2003
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Originally Posted by alfeng .


BTW. You should note that ANY cable operated front derailleur from ANY vintage can be used with a Campagnolo front shifter ... and, the [COLOR= #ff0000]travel agent is superfluous[/COLOR].
Oops, I forgot. Thanks.
 

swampy1970

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2008
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Originally Posted by alfeng .



Geez ...

Even AFTER CyclinYooper confirmed that his older bike has SORA components, you still act as if I fabricated that information ... there was NO assumption on that fact other than by YOU!

---​

Now, people who don't know, don't know ...

Your (and, alienator's) suggestion that the shifting is fine with SORA components rings hollow since you don't seem willing to use it on any of your bikes OR are you using high-zoot components simply for bling?

Your collective suggestion that the shifting is fine is akin to someone who has never used a transmission with synchromesh saying that double-clutching works just fine ... sure. you can get from point A to point B ... heck, it would be even better if the vehicle had an automatic transmission than a manual transmission IF YOU KNEW IT EXISTED AS YET ANOTHER OPTION?

  • of course, in the case of Campagnolo & presumably SRAM shifters, the practical difference is negligible from model to model

  • there's a reason that Shimano came up with Rapid Rise rear derailleurs EVEN THOUGH they are still only available as MTB derailleurs.

People who don't know, don't know.

Regardless, how is "give serious consideration" a "[COLOR= #0000ff]MUST[/COLOR]" command, as you indicate, to replace the SORA shifters with a set of Campagnolo shifters? It seems as though you have morphed my comment because you may have become a little too defensive about equipping ([COLOR= #808080]or, choosing a bike so-equipped[/COLOR]) your most recenet bike with DA components.

BTW. While it is possible you had more than a parking-lot test ride on a Campagnolo equipped bike, unless the ride includes climbs of significantly more than a 30 foot rise, I don't think it is a test of what shifters can-or-cannot do ...

REGARDLESS, it isn't the bike OR the number of gears which would make it a task to ride the TBP, it is the shifters ... you don't need gears to ride on Mountain roadways:


I suppose that if 'I' am the only rider who rides when closer to momentary fatigue than not THEN 'I' might be the only person who is apparently clumsy enough to have caused MY Shimano drivetrain to balk when downshifting while the driveetrain is under a load ... regardless, 'I' have found that with the Campagnolo shifters that 'I' don't have to worry about MY clumsy downshifting.


Oooh!

Aren't you the WISE SHOPPER?!?

Don't hurt yourself by patting yourself on your back for having spent whatever it is you paid for your most recent bike ...

---​

I hope you know that your apparent BFF alienator has, as I recall ([COLOR= #808080]perhaps in error[/COLOR]), dissed [COLOR= #ff0000]MAVIC Ksyrium SL [/COLOR]wheels in the past ...

Regardless, about 10 years ago, I had a Ksyrium SSC SL wheelset which had about 1800 +/- miles on them ... at about that time, it was disclosed ([COLOR= #808080]in VeloNews & probably elsewhere[/COLOR]) that the Freehub might need to be replaced after about 3000 miles if a lot of coasting was involved ...

I love to coast!

Consequently, I sold my Ksyrium SSC SL wheels ASAP thereafter, so I'm going to suggest ([COLOR= #808080]vs. "command"![/COLOR]) that you might want to sell-and-replace them at some point in time unless you don't mind paying the used-to-be-$65-nuisance-cost ([COLOR= #808080]and, it's probably more, now[/COLOR]) for a replacemenet Freehub body after every 3000+ miles.
I wasn't the one that suggested that the OP change equipement based upon the fact that they're doing "ride x" - whether the OP had been using the bike with Sora equipment, as you assumed, or one with a different groupset entirely as was the case. The only real gear related change the OP may need to make is one based upon required gearing based upon fitness, weight and the challenges of the course. Is a 28 sprocket gonna work for him?

LOL at alienator being a bbf. Aren't you all hip and text0r like... He sounds like an interesting guy but I think the biggest thing we have in common in this thread is that we both agree that Shimano's equipment works fine and we've witnessed this first hand and I'm sure there's countless tens of thousands of people that think the same way. No need for a mix and match of parts. Definitely no need to replace parts that aren't broken.

I don't care that Alienator doesn't like the "crying-sums." They're not my first choice in wheels either but they're a reasonable wheelset and they came with the bike.

The issue with the Ksyrium freehubs, has from what I read, been fixed.

I've never had a long term problem with any Shimano system on my bikes or on friends bikes (and this was mostly back in the mid 90's) nearly every single shifting problem, other than crash damage, was due to either bad cables or routing (dirt in outer casing, bad cuts on outer casing, bad cable routing or incorrect insertion of outer cable into a cable stop or brake lever. Sometimes even to much of the wrong lubricant would do the same. But for my own bikes I have never had an issue with 105STI 8 speed or either of the 10 speed Dura Ace groups. I'm not the "God of bike mechanics" and don't proclaim to be, so if I can make the system work such that it shifts flawlessly when out of the saddle when making a big effort going uphill then I'm sure many many other people can make it shift just as well. I just use the shimano cables - nothing "fancy." Things are kept reasonably clean and installed as per the service sheet.

Maybe you're looking for something more out of the system than I am. As long as I get a shift immediately after the lever goes 'click and that shift put the chain precisely on the correct sprocket without "chatter" or skipping then I'm happy.

A parking lot ride? WTF. What kind of a bike test is that? Mikes Bikes in Sausalito let me take the bikes I was looking at out for 15 minutes a pop - down the rather nice, very wide Bay front bike path and up some of the rather steep costal roads that rise significantly more than 30 feet. Of course the drivers license and credit card was kept on file ;)
 

alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by swampy1970 .


I wasn't the one that suggested that the OP change equipement based upon the fact that they're doing "ride x" - whether the OP had been using the bike with Sora equipment, as you assumed, or one with a different groupset entirely as was the case. The only real gear related change the OP may need to make is one based upon required gearing based upon fitness, weight and the challenges of the course. Is a 28 sprocket gonna work for him?
While 'I' know that MY experience was not unique, you & alienator can choose to continue to believe that it is so if it makes you feel better ...

If you re-read what I wrote, while I may have suggested [COLOR= #000000]"presuming that you have not done so already, give serious consideration to getting a set of Campagnolo shifters" [/COLOR][COLOR= #000000]to the OP[/COLOR], he apparently chose to buy a new bike!

If you were to take a moment to actually read what CyclinYooper wrote, he mentioned:

  • Purchased a Cervelo RS in November with stock SRAM Rival components. No, it's no Campy.
    smile.gif
    But, it shifts significantly faster than my Shimano Sora components on the previous bike (especially shifting a a larger rear cog on fun uphills).

Which part of "it shifts significantly faster ..." aren't you comprehending where there is what can be interpreted as an expliciit declaration that the SORA shifting could by comparision, be classified as sub-standard if SRAM shifting is the benchmark?

You know, in MY world, a cost of under $200 is still less than $1000-to-4000+ to achieve better shifting ([COLOR= #808080]of course, shifting is only one aspect of why a person buys a new bike[/COLOR]).

If all of the Shimano drivetrains work equally well, then why do so many say they are planning to upgrade to a new bike which has 105, or Ultegra, or Dura Ace from whatever?

BTW. I keep thinking that your bike of choice used to have bar end shifters ...

  • If not, then never mind ...

But, if so, why was that the case if you thought the 8-speed 105 shifters were so efficient?!?

I'm just asking.

Of course, YOU can prove me wrong by buying a set of SORA shifters to use on one of your "regular" bikes ... one season with the SORA components ([COLOR= #808080]i.e., shifters & cassette ... as I recall, you're one of the many who thinks there isn't a difference between 8-/9-speed & 10-speed Shimano rear derailleurs[/COLOR]) will be one season less wear on your DA components, so nothing will be truly lost ...

  • if you don't like the SORA components, then you can resell them
  • if the SORA components work as well as you declare, then you can save money on your future bikes!

---​

I know what hasn't worked for me & what does ...

And, I'm not a glutton for punishment ...

Plus, I don't have a burning need ([COLOR= #808080]like many people whom I know[/COLOR]) who feels a need to have all the components have the same group label ...

  • YOU should note that I have never recommended that someone change their entire drivetrain to Campagnolo ...
  • unless a person has deep pockets ([COLOR= #808080]and, many do[/COLOR]) then why bother when all of the Campagnolo shifters could be used with Shimano drivetrains?
  • Why pay an unnecessary premium for Campagnolo derailleurs, chains ([COLOR= #808080]especially![/COLOR]), hubs & cassettes if Shimano works as well, or ([COLOR= #808080]subjectively[/COLOR]) better?

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

The issue with the Ksyrium freehubs, has from what I read, been fixed.
Of course, one would like to think that the MAVIC Freehub problem has been remedied, but a thread ([COLOR= #808080]Mavic CrossMax SL freehub mystery problem[/COLOR]) was recently resurrected where the poster described how he repaired his 2007 vintage MAVIC Freehub.

FWIW. By my reckoning, the permanent, done-at-the-factory-remedy would cost MAVIC less than $5 per wheel ... that's $5 on the high side of the range.

Undoubtedly, YOU will know long before the end of this year whether or not the problem has actually been fixed & can report back, accordingly..