Anyone Else Wish They'd Start Making High End 5 Speed Again?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by namestakensuck, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Quote by nts:
    "I'm guessing that since it was left outside in an area with high winds and dust storms that may have been an issue?"

    The modern racing bike is a precision instrument. It will still operate well under demanding conditions and suffer more than a little abuse before function is adversely affected.

    I, and I believe everyone reading this thread, am baffled that you and a couple of LBS mechanics could not diagnose and effect a repair on the shifting function...despite the somewhat more complicated nature of a 10-speed index system as opposed to a 5-speed 3/32" chain, friction shift system.

    Like I said above, it's NOT rocket surgery.

    Wear? That's a metric affected by many things, including dust storms and outdoor storage. Neither of which do anything to improve the wear characteristics of an open drive power transmission system of ANY number of gear ratios.

    As Maydog stated, he's pounding out Watts of power and kills his stuff quickly. So do I. We know this. From experience.

    People that race or train hard know they're wasting steel at a more rapid rate that the dude that hits the bike path once a week for 20 miles of exercise. Hills kill gears, chains and shifters. Road grit kills gears, chains, derailleur pulleys, etc. Power and racing abuse kills steel.

    Alf and others have pointed out that cleaning is a necessity to maximize wear. I told you I have 30K miles on a Chorus rig and my derailleur pulleys are just fine despite Ohio roads full of road grit, dust, dirt and winter salt. How did they manage to last that long? Frequent (weekly and sometimes bi-weekly cleaning and fresh grease in the pulley bushings a couple times per year.

    I'm a fairly high mileage rider. Someone piling on less miles could easily stretch that cleaning schedule out. Someone in dusty conditions could clean more often.

    Back to that old 3/32" chain and 5-speed Regina freewheel...

    Yes, it WILL last longer than a modern setup. Would any of us go back to the Gino Bartali days other than to ride one of the 'Heroica' style Gran Fondo events that requires the use of old bikes and tech? Hellz no! We trade wear and higher maintenance for weight reduction, more and closer ratios, improved to the point of brain dead shifting function and better performance for our effort on the bike.

    OBC hit it on the head...you can go back to a 5-speed Nuovo Record style bike if you choose. If you assembled your 10-speed system you can certainly collect up enough old Campy pieces parts to build yourself an awesome repli-racer out of the 1970's or early 1980's.
     


  2. namestakensuck

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    Maybe I should try that at some point. I was concerned about being able to find chains in an lbs though. I can't really imagine cleaning that often when its gonna get dirty anywyay. At some point that type of maintenance cost outwieghs the cost of simply just lubing the chain and riding it.
     
  3. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    the idea of marketing stuff to us is all about making the stuff last half as long as it use to so we have to buy stuff more often which in turn puts dollars into corporate pockets.

    I have a Suntour Superbe components on a 84 Trek I bought new in 84 and those components have over 160,000 miles and still going strong. The wider chains used on 5, 6, and 7 speed clusters lasted a lot longer, mine lasted an average of 13,000 to 15,000 miles, the gears were thicker and the gears would last 3 times longer than chains! Now I hear that 9, 10, and 11 speed chains only last 3 to 4 thousand miles with the gear cluster lasting about 3 times longer.

    And pulleys? I never replaced the pulleys on my Superbe stuff and they're still fine.

    Graphite doesn't work unless you heat treat the graphite onto the chain, otherwise the stuff won't last long, it's great for lubing cable housings and locks but if exposed to the environment it won't last more then a ride. Also graphite is corrosive towards certain steels including steels used for chains, and aluminum; anyway see this article because I know someone is going to scream at me for suggesting graphite is corrosive to your chain: http://www.nordicgroup.us/chain/
     
  4. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

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    Keeping a hygienic chain isn't that big a deal. Drip some lube on it, sparingly, every couple hundred miles or so, and wipe off the excess. If it starts looking like fudge brownies, scrub it with a brush using a dilute mix of degreaser, dry, and re-lube. Personally, I like those on-the-bike chain scrubbers that most shops sell for around $35. Scrubbers by Pedro's, Park, and Finsh Line stand out. And the overwash cleans the derailleur pulleys and cogs, too.

    And not cleaning because it's just going to get dirty again is false economy of energy. New dirt sits on the surface of parts and is easy to remove. Old dirt works into moving parts where it can cause wear, friction, and eventual failure.
     
  5. welshdude3

    welshdude3 Member

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    Say CB, friend turned me on to a little trick for routing cables. A TINY amount of solder to fuse the strands on the end of the cable. He, also uses a little high grit emory paper for any possible excess solder. Then graphite on the rest of the cable. He said doing it practically eliminated his 'bitch quotient'. lol I tried it. It works.
     
  6. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Campy inner wires are pre-soldered. Before I shorten them (after installation) I solder where the cut will be located, cut and then put on the crimp cap.

    It's the circuitous path through the drum and lever assembly that starts the madness. With the lever still on the bars it's flashlight in one hand and a dental pick in the other. Click the drum fully one way to start threading the wire and all the way the other direction to feed it through the lever output hole. Then try and hit the in-front-of-bar or the behind-the-bar exit path and get it into the first length of outer cable...after the bars have been un-taped and the hoods rolled up to expose the exits.

    The soldered end is a necessity, what with all the trial pushing...trying to hit the hole like a 16-year old kid on a prom date.

    I exaggerate the difficulty, obviously...it's not that bad...but, compared to 'the good old days' there really is a price to be paid for modern indexed shifting.
     
  7. welshdude3

    welshdude3 Member

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    Ahh, there's the difference. Shimano/Sachs systems are what we both have. I use a headlamp for the threading through the shifter and pointed tweezers. I gave up on using indexed for the front der on ANY of my bikes.

    My Softride touring bike has been retrofitted with a 15.00 set of Sunrace racheted straight bar friction shifters and Tekt 20160225_152642.jpg 20150928_161508.jpg ro levers. They work fine for short tours. Will get some good bar-cons for the Tans-Am next year.
     
  8. welshdude3

    welshdude3 Member

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    Wtf? How did THAT happen? lol
     
  9. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    Down tube friction shifters. But alas they only exist on the bike I keep on the trainer. Used to have a Huret Jubilee rear derailleur. That lasted for a long time. Nothing better than that combination.

    Except the Shimano electric shifters. I love them on my road bike. If they stops working well, I replace the chain and perhaps the cassette.
     
  10. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I've got one of those...

    IIRC I took it off an early 1970's Raleigh. If you even looked at those things cross-ways they would bend and twist.

    145 grams back in the day was pretty impressive though.
     
  11. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Holy mother of 1980's retro ride, Batman! Do they still make those things?!?!

    Off to Google... http://www.softride.com/ ...evidently, they went out of fashion with mullets, parachute pants and disco balls.
     
  12. welshdude3

    welshdude3 Member

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    Lol. Yeah, mine's a '96 Traveler. Had RSX comps, originally. Was the mullet ever really 'in'? Billy Ray father of Miley Cyrus had the main mane in the early 90s. Largely the province of working class, 4 wheeler owners if memory serves...not that there's anything wrong with that.

    Danny Chew 2x winner of the RAAM in the mid-90s and originator of the Pittsburgh Dirty Dozen ride used one. He's been riding in the 100s of miles per DAY for YEARS! We hung out at the same lbs in da Burgh. I was planning an extended cycling tour and was offered a good deal so I bought it. It suffered the seeds of neglect and I just resurrected and reconditioned it this year in anticipation of doing the TransAm NEXT year. It's an amazingly comfortable ride. And my mandolin fits on it without the neck sticking out off the rear rack.

    But, yeah you're right. They never really caught on. Unless they're under load the ride is comfortable, but squirrelly. Under load it's an amazing ride. Maybe I'll break down the build up over on the touring/recreation forum. It's really a great touring bike.
     
  13. mpre53

    mpre53 Well-Known Member

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    52/40 rings and a 5 cog 13-21 on the back? No thanks, not even in my flatlands. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I don't have 22 year old legs any more.

    Wider range freewheel and deal with those gaps? No thanks. 13-28 in 6 speed is bad enough.
     
  14. Bicycleman

    Bicycleman Well-Known Member

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    I started with a six speed nameless Montgomery Ward bicycle. I then went to 7 speed. I never had 8 speed. I stopped at my present 9 speed cassette. I remember with 7 speeds you could get a 13-21 straight block. Now, the highest gear is 11. No wonder I'm getting dropped. I just have a 12 as my highest gear, but I'm still running in the 13 since I don't want to put strain on my chain when I'm running the 39. Old age doesn't help either.
     
  15. Bicycleman

    Bicycleman Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I liked the 42 small chain ring. You could ride in that gear and get some added boost, unlike the 39 which often causes me to spin out. I don't know why they ever went to 39 and stayed there.
     
  16. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Having lived and rode and raced on 5, 6, and 7 speed rear friction and SIS systems back in the day I can tell you with 100% certainty that (especially Suntour) were MUCH more dependable than today's stuff, and they worked with very little fuss. I have a Suntour Superbe group on my former racing bike that saw over 160,000 miles without a failure (except the front derailleur band rusted through and snapped but I replaced it with a identical one about 14 years ago), and the group still works great to this day. Why did yours give you so much problem? I don't know I wasn't there to look at your bike, but I find it difficult to believe that as simple as those systems are that the you nor the LBS couldn't figure it out. I have another bike that has Shimano Dura Ace SIS that has about 25,000 miles on it and it too has run flawlessly, though being SIS it does require more adjusting to keep it shifting positive unlike friction systems that rarely require adjusting. All STI and Ergo is glorified SIS, they simply moved the shifters to the brake levers and that's all they did, in fact I think the SIS with downtube shifters shift faster than STI or Ergo and that's probably due to shorter cable lengths, in fact since I'm so accustomed to using friction I find that the STI and Ergo are pretty much on par with friction (at least the Suntour system) in terms of quickness of the shifting, Friction wise Suntour put all the other companies derailleurs to shame big time. I'm sure those last two sentences I wrote will cause a stir amongst the die hard modern generation who never rode those vintage bikes (especially Suntour equipped bikes) or spent much time on one and who think only the new stuff is the best the rest is like driving a car on square wheels...LOL.

    Back in day when friction and SIS were around Campy simply did NOT work as well as Suntour stuff or even Shimano when they came out with SIS, prior to Suntour coming out with racing friction derailleurs they were about the same with the exception that Simplex was the worst, but those units of the 60's and 70's shifted sloppy but that's what we were use to and no one seemed to mind since that's all we had and those days prior to Suntour entering the racing market Campy was the king because it was better shifting than Shimano. Today I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between Shimano STI and Campy Ergo, I have both and other than ergonomics I can't really tell much; and which will last longer my 105 or the Athena...I may never find out since I ride the 105 equipped bike a lot more.
     
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