anyone have experience with Altipower Hypoxicator?

[tmctguer]

http://www.altipower.com/sport.htm

does anyone have any experience with this product? it purports to simulate altitude training to enhance one's hematrocrit.

comments?

 

[SolarEnergy]

http://www.altipower.com/sport.htm

does anyone have any experience with this product? it purports to simulate altitude training to enhance one's hematrocrit.

comments?

I have not tried it. But going on altitude training camps was something I use to do once a year with the team where I use to work. I have no scientific evidence to support what I'm gonna say, but I am still going to say it:

- It typically took couple of days before actually being able to train at a suitable level. When you get off the plane, you can't train at the level you are used to
- It took couple of weeks before training at the same level you are used to.
- This adaptation process requires a lot of work, we where not going there to listen to TV
- My feeling, is that if we would have gone there listening to TV, we would not have had any benefit from our trip. We would have became better at listening to TV at high altitude and that is about it.
- In order for this adaptation process to take place, the recovery must also be done at the same altitude

What I'm trying to say, is that unless you live with that device 24h, 7days for few weeks, without never unplugging it, I don't think it is going to work.

Altitude training is not magic. It is hard work, very hard work

So to me, these tools appear to be pure BS.

If one of my athletes was doing EPO, I would certainly suggest that he also buy one of these tools, that way, if the atlete gets under investigation, you can always defend himself saying that is due to the use of that tool. That is the only usefull way of using them in my opinion

Cheers

 

[Guru_2_u_2]

http://www.altipower.com/sport.htm

does anyone have any experience with this product? it purports to simulate altitude training to enhance one's hematrocrit.

comments?

For the sake of full disclosure, I am a distributor of the product, but I became the distributor after I tried it.

In 2003, I completed PBP, and did so in a decent time, but decided to try racing again (I'm old). I sucked, not the worst guy out there, but certainly not up to snuff.

I tried altitude training and my power increased, my endurance at threshold went way up, and my LT went up. I felt great on the bike.

Now, about a year later, I have numerous cyclists, runners, climbers and others who are using this thing. One (formerly) famous cyclist called me last week to tell me that after 13 days his power (3x10minutes) went from 425 to 440W, which he felt was unbelievable.

As a former European based Pro, and Olympic, and world's competitor, this guy is not some old fart like me trying to get by. He is the real deal. I personally know riders from Discovery Gerolsteiner and other tier II teams who are using the product, some for many months now and love it.

Last month a Canadian by the name of Ray Zahab won the race across the Sahara (250 mile foot race) and he swears by the device.

I hope that helps.

 

[frenk]

Honestly, what satisfaction do you get when you see improvements due to a device like that?
I'm happy when I get better and I know it required work and sacrifice, but just buying some better performance... I don't know.
Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I don't understand it.

 

[Guru_2_u_2]

Honestly, what satisfaction do you get when you see improvements due to a device like that?
I'm happy when I get better and I know it required work and sacrifice, but just buying some better performance... I don't know.
Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I don't understand it.

** It is unlikely that ANY world class competitor is NOT doing altitude training. It is simply a question of how they are doing it. Some go and live in the mountains for a few weeks at a time, some sleep in altitude tents, the really rich ones build altitude chambers in their homes.

Those of us with smaller budgets or lifestyles that involve working for a living or not owning a ski chalet on the side of a mountain can now participate in altitude training without giving up two months gross income.

I personally find it funny that most high quality cyclists will pay U$1,500 for a new set of wheels that will give them .5% increase in performance, or U$5,000 for a new bike that will increase their performance by 2%. Certainly there is some styling issues involved in these decisions, but still.

I recently raced with Steve Bauer. He is older, fatter and rides a not so fancy bike, and he still cleaned my clock . . . yet we waste money on improving the equipment and not the engine.

AltiPower improves your engine for cycling, running, swimming, hockey or whatever. Someone asked if it worked. It works. I have used it and measured my performance and it made me a lot better. I will still never catch the world elites because I don't have the natural ability, but what little ability I do have was enhanced NATURALLY, without adding anything to my body.

Kind Regards,
Guru.

 

[frenk]

** It is unlikely that ANY world class competitor is NOT doing altitude training. It is simply a question of how they are doing it. Some go and live in the mountains for a few weeks at a time, some sleep in altitude tents, the really rich ones build altitude chambers in their homes.

Those of us with smaller budgets or lifestyles that involve working for a living or not owning a ski chalet on the side of a mountain can now participate in altitude training without giving up two months gross income.

I personally find it funny that most high quality cyclists will pay U$1,500 for a new set of wheels that will give them .5% increase in performance, or U$5,000 for a new bike that will increase their performance by 2%. Certainly there is some styling issues involved in these decisions, but still.

I recently raced with Steve Bauer. He is older, fatter and rides a not so fancy bike, and he still cleaned my clock . . . yet we waste money on improving the equipment and not the engine.

AltiPower improves your engine for cycling, running, swimming, hockey or whatever. Someone asked if it worked. It works. I have used it and measured my performance and it made me a lot better. I will still never catch the world elites because I don't have the natural ability, but what little ability I do have was enhanced NATURALLY, without adding anything to my body.

Kind Regards,
Guru.

IMO there is a difference between altitude training and sleeping in an altitude tend.
Altitude training means making an effort to improve your engine.
Sleeping in a tend or using similar gadgets means just paying to improve your engine: you just need the money to buy the thing.

I'm not sure I would appreciate to know that the guy that beated me was faster just because he is richer...

With respect to equipment (wheels & co.), I'm not very annoyed by that because I know that differences in performance are mostly not significant under normal conditions. So if people like to spend loads of money I'm happy for them I know that their ksyriums are not more aero than my open pro!

On a side note, it should also be kept in mind that altitude training/tends/etc. only make you fitter for a couple of weeks.

 

[Guru_2_u_2]

IMO there is a difference between altitude training and sleeping in an altitude tend.
Altitude training means making an effort to improve your engine.
Sleeping in a tend or using similar gadgets means just paying to improve your engine: you just need the money to buy the thing.

I'm not sure I would appreciate to know that the guy that beated me was faster just because he is richer...

With respect to equipment (wheels & co.), I'm not very annoyed by that because I know that differences in performance are mostly not significant under normal conditions. So if people like to spend loads of money I'm happy for them I know that their ksyriums are not more aero than my open pro!

On a side note, it should also be kept in mind that altitude training/tends/etc. only make you fitter for a couple of weeks.

** That is an interesting point. Altitude training means making an effort to improve your engine, but gadgets just mean spending money to buy the gadget? **

I live at 260 feet above sea level, and the nearest point of altitude above 4000 feet is 5,000 km away from me. So for me to make an effort to improve at altitude would cost me at least U$500 in travel cost, U$250 for vehicle rental and U$500 per week in cottage/chalet/condo rental, for a total cost of U$2000 for two weeks at altittude. Agreed some of that cost could be shared or I could have a friend who lives wherever and get my cost down to maybe $800 or $900 for two weeks.

But as you mentioned, the benefits of altitude only last for a short period (they peak around 4-6 weeks actually and last as long as 10-12 weeks), so if I were to pay for such benefits throughout the racing season, I would need to spend at least a few thousand dollars a year, and that would only get me to 4000'.

Altitude training with a device can be done at home. Using Intermittent Hypoxic Training, it takes about 1 hour a day, about 10 days out of every 6 or 8 weeks, and I can do this at a much lower cost without impacting my work vacation time, fuel surcharges on my local air carrier or being away from my family for two weeks or more at a time.

There is no question that altitude training works for almost the entire population, the only question is do you want to make the investment, and if so, do you want to live on a mountain a few times a year (I noticed you are from Switzerland, so this is much easier for you), or do you want to use equipment to reduce your costs and increase your convenience.

From that decision, what is the best equipment/method? Altitude Chambers (very expensive), Altitude tents (somewhat expensive, hard on recovery), or intermittent hypoxic training (price varies, best training and recovery available).

Making these decisions with a doctor/coach would be helpful, but it is a natural way to bring out the best in your body, altitude training improves cardiovascular fitness, enhances the immune system and has other benefits which accrue over time.

I would trade a life in Switzerland for a life in the flatlands if I could, but that is not possible for myself and millions of athletes, so this is an option. Just like Kyserium is an option vs. Open Pro. Kyserium is definately better, but not everyone can or will use them.

Kind Regards,
Guru.

 

[Guru_2_u_2]

** That is an interesting point. Altitude training means making an effort to improve your engine, but gadgets just mean spending money to buy the gadget? **

Sorry, one other point. Just in case it is not obvious. Altitude training does not preclude other training. It will not take a couch potatoe and maximize their aerobic performance. You still have to work like a dog to get better.

It enhances your natural abilities, it doesn't replace training.

I equate it with a Zone 2 workout, if you can imagine working out at Zone 2 without using your muscles every day, then you would have a good aerobic endurance base, but no muscles to deliver that aerobic capacity, and no top end to speak of either.

Kind Regards,
Guru.

 

[frenk]

** That is an interesting point. Altitude training means making an effort to improve your engine, but gadgets just mean spending money to buy the gadget? **

I live at 260 feet above sea level, and the nearest point of altitude above 4000 feet is 5,000 km away from me. So for me to make an effort to improve at altitude would cost me at least U$500 in travel cost, U$250 for vehicle rental and U$500 per week in cottage/chalet/condo rental, for a total cost of U$2000 for two weeks at altittude. Agreed some of that cost could be shared or I could have a friend who lives wherever and get my cost down to maybe $800 or $900 for two weeks.

But as you mentioned, the benefits of altitude only last for a short period (they peak around 4-6 weeks actually and last as long as 10-12 weeks), so if I were to pay for such benefits throughout the racing season, I would need to spend at least a few thousand dollars a year, and that would only get me to 4000'.

Altitude training with a device can be done at home. Using Intermittent Hypoxic Training, it takes about 1 hour a day, about 10 days out of every 6 or 8 weeks, and I can do this at a much lower cost without impacting my work vacation time, fuel surcharges on my local air carrier or being away from my family for two weeks or more at a time.

There is no question that altitude training works for almost the entire population, the only question is do you want to make the investment, and if so, do you want to live on a mountain a few times a year (I noticed you are from Switzerland, so this is much easier for you), or do you want to use equipment to reduce your costs and increase your convenience.

From that decision, what is the best equipment/method? Altitude Chambers (very expensive), Altitude tents (somewhat expensive, hard on recovery), or intermittent hypoxic training (price varies, best training and recovery available).

Making these decisions with a doctor/coach would be helpful, but it is a natural way to bring out the best in your body, altitude training improves cardiovascular fitness, enhances the immune system and has other benefits which accrue over time.

Your points are good, but I'm still not sure about the idea of improving fitness with "external" things.
It's like doping (don't take me wrong, I'm not saying that altitude tends are like doping), it's difficult to me to decide where the limit is.

You see, eating well is obviously something you can do, then you may want to take some vitamines, it's ok. Then you need more supplements to help recovery. At a given point you are using the "bad stuff", but where did you crossed the line?
I mean, EPO has about the same effects of altitude training, yet it isn't acceptable. Why altitude simulation yes and the other one not?

Again, I'm not saying that those altitude-simulation tools are like EPO, I'm just saying that it's not clear to me how much external help you are allowed to get before it becomes "artificial".

(...) Just like Kyserium is an option vs. Open Pro. Kyserium is definately better, but not everyone can or will use them.

This would actually require another (long) thread

Francesco

 

[Guru_2_u_2]

Your points are good, but I'm still not sure about the idea of improving fitness with "external" things.
It's like doping (don't take me wrong, I'm not saying that altitude tends are like doping), it's difficult to me to decide where the limit is.

You see, eating well is obviously something you can do, then you may want to take some vitamines, it's ok. Then you need more supplements to help recovery. At a given point you are using the "bad stuff", but where did you crossed the line?
I mean, EPO has about the same effects of altitude training, yet it isn't acceptable. Why altitude simulation yes and the other one not?

Again, I'm not saying that those altitude-simulation tools are like EPO, I'm just saying that it's not clear to me how much external help you are allowed to get before it becomes "artificial".

Francesco

Well, I will let everyone make their own choices, but an altitude training device adds NOTHING to the body. It simply takes away oxygen in an amount which is not harmful.

I very much agree with you on supplements and drugs. I don't have time to research every new supplement, so I take just Vitamin A, Vitamin C and on very long rides (brevets over 400km), I add in a base metals supplement and sometimes caffeine pills (I don't drink coffee).

Good luck if you research further, just remember, altitude training works, and it causes no physical harm and there are no known physical risks from its use (as there are with EPO, steroids and so forth which can cause unnatural spikes in hematocrit, etc.).


Kind Regards,
Guru.

P.S. Let's not go with the wheel conversation, you will definitely know more than I do. Wheels are not my thing

 

[frenk]

Yeah, in fact I guess this is (and will probably ever be) an open question.
I found an interesting article on this topic: http://www.active.com/story.cfm?story_id=8407
It basically comes to the same conclusion: a question mark...

Oh... I'm noticing that the sun shines! Time for a ride!

 

[whoawhoa]

IMO there is a difference between altitude training and sleeping in an altitude tend.
Altitude training means making an effort to improve your engine.
Sleeping in a tend or using similar gadgets means just paying to improve your engine: you just need the money to buy the thing.

I'm not sure I would appreciate to know that the guy that beated me was faster just because he is richer...

With respect to equipment (wheels & co.), I'm not very annoyed by that because I know that differences in performance are mostly not significant under normal conditions. So if people like to spend loads of money I'm happy for them I know that their ksyriums are not more aero than my open pro!

On a side note, it should also be kept in mind that altitude training/tends/etc. only make you fitter for a couple of weeks.

My counter argument would be: Should I appreciate it if I go to a race at altitude and get beaten by someone who lives at altitude? Or could afford to fly out two weeks before the race?

Bike racing, like life, is unfortunately not fair.

 

[VeloFlash]

I have a Altipower Hypoxicator and have used the related Go2Altitude machine - both made by same company.

The machine is expensive (about $AU10,000 minimum) and the Altipower unit "cheaper" at about $AU1300.

However, the Altipower unit is very expensive to run as it requires a consumable change every 10 uses with a consumable life of 14 days once exposed. The consumable scrubbing material, the same as used in hospital anaesthetic units and scuba rebreathers, costs about $AU100 each time.

There are no consumables in the Go2Altitude machine except power.

There are questions over altitude training in general. Claiming it is a clean substitute for EPO to increase hct levels is quite false. Any benefits are cellular rather than improving blood chemistry. The AIS have found it does benefit sprint endurance but have found very little benefit to elite athletes.

Here are some AIS study references:

Comparison of EPO administration (low dose) with altitude training. (refer also to following studies on stimulation of red blood cell production)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11695504&query_hl=17

The effects of altitude on cycling performance

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11428690&query_hl=17

Evaluation of living high and training low concept

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11282321&query_hl=17

Simulated moderate altitude elevates serum erythropoietin but does not increase reticulocyte production in well-trained runners.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10751105&query_hl=17

"Live high, train low" does not change the total haemoglobin mass of male endurance athletes sleeping at a simulated altitude of 3000 m for 23 nights.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10502083&query_hl=17

Effects of a 12-day "live high, train low" camp on reticulocyte production and haemoglobin mass in elite female road cyclists.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10502082&query_hl=17

Altitude training at 2690m does not increase total haemoglobin mass or sea level VO2max in world champion track cyclists.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9783517&query_hl=17

 

[OlegB]

Reply from the Manufacturer / developer



Altipower is not a miracle - it is simply a training aid.

It has been widely accepted that training in altitude

camp does increase your endurance performance ("because

of the red blood cells"), there are quite a few but's about it:

- You can not exercise at your normal sea-level training level - because the air is thin (lack of oxygen)
- As a great rule, scientists forget to mention that about 30% of athletes

become sick because of training in the thin air

- Staying for recommended 4 weeks in the remote altitude camp makes you sick psychologically as well: you are away from your family, work and/or studies.

- It is quite costly: travel + accommodation + loss of income

- You stay and train at the altitude where the camp is. For one it is just a perfect altitude. For another - it is bit too low, for the third - it is not high enough...



We live in the 21st century. If we can recognize what are the physiological benefits of the stay at altitude - why not to replicate them where and when it is convenient for an individual?



AIS has done quite a lot of research on the simulated altitude training, including sleeping in the altitude hose. (not much on IHT)

The benefits are measurable, however the majority of the above problems remain unanswered:

- you have to be away from home / family to live in their

"nitrogen house".

- all people in the house are exposed to the same simulated altitude (too much / too little situation)

- ...and it is the 21st century, why not to cater for an individual?



Altipower so far is the cheapest method amongst commercially available simulated altitude training devices.

High running costs? The cartridge that will give you two weeks of training is priced AU$75 (when 4 purchased). Is it a huge price compared to two weeks of "real altitude" training (travel, accommodation, loss of income, away from family)?

Bear in mind that this product was designed for serious athletes and the cost of Research and development was over AU$500,000.



Does it work or it does not?

First of all we do not claim and we do not think that the aim is "to build up your red blood cells". There is no correlation between haemoglobin concentration and athletic achievements. In fact an elite athlete with the highest haemoglobin in the group can come last and the one with the lowest can be the first to cross the finish line - it is a known fact.



EPO / Hb is used by the scientists who use altitude training (long-term stay at real or simulated altitude) to gauge whether there are any physiological adaptations occurring in the body.

It does not work quite the same with the IHT. Our equipment can simulate extreme altitudes (up to 6000m, even 9000m by special request). Body response is almost instant, repeating short-term exposures to these altitudes for days and weeks leads to a cluster of long-term physiological changes, all of them are for the athlete's benefit in terms of performance improvement and quicker recovery: there are apparent changes in parameters of external respiration, release of VEGF, certain enzymes-antioxidants, fine-tuning of the auto-immune system. There is a diagram that is a graphic attempt to explain the cause-effect chain reaction: http://www.go2altitude.com/data/IHT_responce_chain_v3.pdf

Read more on the home page on http://www.go2altitude.com/



The research that was done so far is mostly positive about IHT

http://www.endurancesport.co.nz/news/default.cfm?a=295

http://www.go2altitude.com/data/IHTImproves_Endurance_Performance.pdf

http://www.go2altitude.com/events/German_study_forearm_2004.pdf



However ALL altitude training experts say that THERE ARE NON-RESPONDERS to ANY type of the altitude exposure. There are no known methods so far on how to pre-select them before the training commences.

Unfortunately there will be some people who do not benefit from this drug-free method of performance enhancement, it is believed that it is appr.. 15% of them in the whole population.

Does it mean that the other 85% should stop their altitude training as well?...

Some studies on a small group of athletes struggled to show any "statistical significance" of performance enhancement exactly due to this reason:

a mixture of responders with non-responder in a small group of people kills all the "stats".

Perhaps the best way to determine whether it is a worth your while equipment so far is to ask people who USED the training. You can not fool top cyclists of Tour de France - lots of them are Altipower(R) or go2altitude(R) users -for a long while.



As inventor and developer of these products I can readily accept that these products may have some imperfections (tell me - what product does not have them).

If someone is so keen to criticize, the questions of mine will be

"do you have anything better on offer?.."



All the best with your training.

Oleg Bassovitch

[email protected]

 

[OlegB]

Reply from the Manufacturer / developer



Altipower is not a miracle - it is simply a training aid.

It has been widely accepted that training in altitude

camp does increase your endurance performance ("because

of the red blood cells"), there are quite a few but's about it:

- You can not exercise at your normal sea-level training level - because the air is thin (lack of oxygen)
- As a great rule, scientists forget to mention that about 30% of athletes

become sick because of training in the thin air

- Staying for recommended 4 weeks in the remote altitude camp makes you sick psychologically as well: you are away from your family, work and/or studies.

- It is quite costly: travel + accommodation + loss of income

- You stay and train at the altitude where the camp is. For one it is just a perfect altitude. For another - it is bit too low, for the third - it is not high enough...



We live in the 21st century. If we can recognize what are the physiological benefits of the stay at altitude - why not to replicate them where and when it is convenient for an individual?



AIS has done quite a lot of research on the simulated altitude training, including sleeping in the altitude hose. (not much on IHT)

The benefits are measurable, however the majority of the above problems remain unanswered:

- you have to be away from home / family to live in their

"nitrogen house".

- all people in the house are exposed to the same simulated altitude (too much / too little situation)

- ...and it is the 21st century, why not to cater for an individual?



Altipower so far is the cheapest method amongst commercially available simulated altitude training devices.

High running costs? The cartridge that will give you two weeks of training is priced AU$75 (when 4 purchased). Is it a huge price compared to two weeks of "real altitude" training (travel, accommodation, loss of income, away from family)?

Bear in mind that this product was designed for serious athletes and the cost of Research and development was over AU$500,000.



Does it work or it does not?

First of all we do not claim and we do not think that the aim is "to build up your red blood cells". There is no correlation between haemoglobin concentration and athletic achievements. In fact an elite athlete with the highest haemoglobin in the group can come last and the one with the lowest can be the first to cross the finish line - it is a known fact.



EPO / Hb is used by the scientists who use altitude training (long-term stay at real or simulated altitude) to gauge whether there are any physiological adaptation are occurring in the body.

It does not work quite the same with the IHT. Our equipment can simulate extreme altitudes (up to 6000m, even 9000m by special request). Body response is almost instant, repeating short-term exposures to these altitudes for days and weeks leads to a cluster of long-term physiological changes, all of them are for the athlete's benefit in terms of performance improvement and quicker recovery: there are apparent changes in parameters of external respiration, release of VEGF, certain enzymes-antioxidants, fine-tuning of the auto-immune system. There is a diagram that is a graphic attempt to explain the cause-effect chain reaction: http://www.go2altitude.com/data/IHT_responce_chain_v3.pdf

Read more on the home page on http://www.go2altitude.com/



The research that was done so far is mostly positive about IHT

http://www.endurancesport.co.nz/news/default.cfm?a=295

http://www.go2altitude.com/data/IHTImproves_Endurance_Performance.pdf

http://www.go2altitude.com/events/German_study_forearm_2004.pdf



However ALL altitude training experts say that THERE ARE NON-RESPONDERS

to ANY type of the altitude exposure. There are no known methods so far on how to pre-select them before the training commences.

Unfortunately there will be some people who do not benefit from this drug-free method of performance enhancement, it is believed that it is appr.. 15% of them in the whole population.

Does it mean that the other 85% should stop their altitude training as well?...



Some studies on a small group of athletes struggled to show any "statistical significance" of performance enhancement exactly due to this reason:

a mixture of responders with non-responder in a small group of people kills all the "stats".

Perhaps the best way to determine whether it is a worth your while equipment so far is to ask people who USED the training. You can not full top cyclists of Tour de France - lots of them are Altipower(R) or go2altitude(R) users -for a long while.



As inventor and developer of these products I can readily accept that these products may have some imperfections (tell me - what product does not have them).

If someone is so keen to criticize, the questions of mine will be

"do you have anything better on offer?.."



All the best with your training.

Oleg Bassovitch

[email protected]

 

[eezyryder]

http://www.altipower.com/sport.htm does anyone have any experience with this product? it purports to simulate altitude training to enhance one's hematrocrit. comments?

The op asked a a simple "Has anyone used or have any experience with altipower ?" So why is the idiots come on here who HAVE NOT used or do NOT have any experience with it , hijack the post and tell us it does not work . Read the question first idiots

 

[climbs4causes]

no but would sure like to hear them or any other proven tactics for improving/expediting acclimatization. Have been consistently stymied by an inability to do so.

 

[ambal]

Originally Posted by eezyryder


The op asked a a simple
"Has anyone used or have any experience with altipower ?"

no