Anyone know a brand of unicycle which is...



no, buy Fair Trade
oxfam.qc.ca
theres also a few cooperatives in quebec from which you can buy bags of
biologic veggies and fruits, produced and harvested by producers here.
no transgenetic food.
Also, if you buy from us or europe, it might stop the companies from
exporting their crafting people in third world countries part. From
year to year, there is always less products made in industrial
countries.

Charles


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fair trade, well that kind of goes without saying.
of course lots of people have no idea what fair trade is.

i have a sneeking suspicion that most organic food on sale here (the
u.k.) is actualy produced in the e.u.

if all trade with the developing world was fair trade then we'd actualy
be doing them a favour by being greedy.


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evilewan - death or glory

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evilewan.

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DrBallard, I am thinking that no one is going to challenge you further
on your position.

It seems like you have read many books detailing other people's views
related to sweatshops - and it provides you with support for your
position.
However, I am sure there are just as many authors supporting the other
point of view. What matters more is to look directly at the logic of
your position.

You seem to be saying "buy certain products based on how a company
treats their employees" and "buy certain products based on how countries
treat their workers." Fortunately, that is where the weakness in your
position lies.

The point is there is a difference in "commerce" and "charity."
Want to buy a great product at a low cost? Great.
Want to "save the world" and fight for workers rights? Great.

Few people will collect the names of the authors supporting your
position and only read that text. Few people will gather information
about the employee makeup of a company before buying from it. Moreover,
less will fly to other countries to get first hand accounts about how
workers are treated. Most people will see a quality product at a
reasonable (often lowest) price and buy. In other words, most people
will vote with their money.

I would dare say that it is better for the US consumer to buy the best
product at the best price, even if they support your position. The US
consumer can simply take the money they save (in my case $200) and
donate it to a 501c3 organization, and take the tax write-off to boot.

In this way, commerce and charity work hand in hand. The consumer wins,
the sweatshop workers win, and the companies that look for ways to
provide products at the lowest cost win. Oh, and the charity wins too.

Whether your position has merit or not is irrelevant because it buckles
under it's own weight.
Ultimately: You are trying to convince people to pay more for
products.

What's worse, is that when it comes to off-road/trials/freestyle
unicycles, if designers like Kris Holm, etc HADN'T gone to other
countries to produce the products, most of the (current) riders on this
forum would be without a quality, durable unicycle - and the sport of
extreme unicycling wouldn't have caught on.


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ChangingLINKS.com - member

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> Counter-replies anyone? Comments? or maybe just... a usa/canada/europe
> crafted brand uni?

I think the pichlerrad SOLO (www.pichlerrad.de) frames are made in
Germany, and Dave Mariner (www.unicycle.co.uk) makes his own frames. All
the high end muni frames I know of (except the standard Kris Holm
frames) are made in the US or Canada.

Finding regular bike parts like rims and pedals which where not produced
in 3. world countries is going to be harder.


--
Borges

"However, I confess that the ultimate wheel lacks the day to day
practicality of the conventional unicycle" -Mikefule
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Yes, it is better than doing nothing, but it is OUR fault if they do not
have any choices besides ... sweatshop, until death comes.

I don’t believe that it is our fault at all. It is capitalism (An
economic system in which the means of production and distribution are
privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the
accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.)
that’s what causes workers to slave away in sweatshops. I still don’t
believe that they do. You talk about China, it has the sixth largest
economy in the world; growth in 2003 was 9.9%. Quote; America is
suffering; Cheap, high quality goods from China have eaten away profit
margins at National Presto industries, a Wisconsin-based firm which
makes pressure cookers and electric frying pans.
"That's going on all over the US, our entire industry has moved to
China," says Ms Cohen, National Presto's president.
She is reluctant to say how many jobs will go at National Presto's
plants in New Mexico and Mississippi but it will be a "substantial
number for a company our size" - at least half the workforce.
The reason because the cost of living is lower, and salaries are lower,
the standard of living may be different, but they aren’t all working
sweat shop, it just isn’t the case.
We can look at other cases.
What goes wrong is that employers in these countries that do have
problems are greedy, but skilled work moves away and they go out of
business, as their competitors drive a good “Management team”.



It may look like the industrial revolution europe and north america
lived in the late 1800 early 1900, BUT, they only get the bad sides of
that. In long term, they wont be richer, nor more industrialized! It
only generates more wealth for us, north-americans and "civilized" (no i
do not think what ive just typed) people. Yes globalisation creates
wealth, but for whom?

I don’t agree with you here, it is the boom time for these countries as
jobs move from UK (call centres for example to India, hundreds of low
paid sweat jobs which is what they are, are lost in UK to elsewhere).
Business in US close down as they can’t compete. They are becoming
richer, just look at the number of Nigerians for example going abroad.
Now I am not saying that there aren’t sweatshops, and now this is the
difficult part. How does one define a sweatshop? Perhaps we should look
at poverty? Now we define that as a percentage of the National Average,
in the US they have a sliding scale. We don’t need to debate that, what
the problem is where who’s to say that they are in a sweatshop? When
they might not agree with you. Look back to the Cotton Mills of
Lancashire during the English Industrial Revolution – what do we see
massive exploitation! Sweatshops and worse. What changed in England was
the 2nd World War, and partially the 1st WW. Did you know that the UK
is still paying America war payments dating back from the 2nd WW?
Ending 2006.


"should i buy american made products?
surely financialy assisting the worlds greatest oppressor is a bit
imorral?"

Yes, you should! We all should!

If you want to support these people then that would be the worst thing
you could do! Their businesses that they work in would go bankrupt and
they would loose what income they do have. America would get richer for
sure. Now lets perhaps look at the social economic problems that
America/Europe suffers? And let good old fashioned Capitalism sort out
the rest?

Soon sweatshops will be back in UK/US and god help us then!


--
Huthwaite - <bahhh>
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The problem with unicycles (and bicycles, and many other products) is
first figuring out where they came from. A dozen different manufacturers
are most likely involved in producing even the most basic of
unicycles.

Even if we follow just the frames, with many brands it can be hard to
trace the actual factory. Distributors don't like to give out such
information, because their competitors may find their way to the source
company and order directly from them.

Many different branded unicycle frames are undoubtedly produced in the
same factory, though I do not know which one(s).

Our "industry" is so small, we would practically be wasting our time,
along with our money, if we went to great lengths to try to help
overseas workers with our buying habits. We couldn't even begin to make
a dent.

Yes, you can buy a non-Asian made unicycle frame, but you will usually
pay at least three times as much for the finished unicycle, even though
most of the other parts are likely to come from Taiwan and China anyway.


KH seats are made somewhere in Asia. Miyata seats, formerly made in
Japan, are now made in China. Viscount seats are from Taiwan (unless
manufacture has moved since they started). Most of the pedals we use
come from Asia as well.

So I understand What DrBallard is saying, though I am not up on the
facts. We in the industrialized "rich" nations live off the poor people
of less wealthy nations. We are not controlled by our press, but it
would rather tell us who's going to be on TV tonight than what's going
on around the world, especially if it's going to make us feel guilty.
When you buy bicycles, clothing, or any one of the many things we
consumers use, but that are made by the millions and not by the
thousands, please keep these ideas in mind. This is where people can
make a difference.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com

"Hey, could I have some of that spinach? I need to get this pork rind
taste out of my mouth." -- Ryan Atkins to Kris Holm, on the way back
from Moab after sampling some of my pork rinds. They grossed out the
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You could buy a DM, they are made in the UK by Dave Mariner, buy a
unicycle from him and you help feed his kid, pay for his shoes etc. Or
you could by a frame from Joe Rowing, again made in the UK, buy a
unicycle from Joe and you help train a teacher, prehaps buy a wheel made
by Mike Hinson and help feeed his unicycle habit, all assembed into a
unicycle by Miark or Roger, who also have rent to pay and food to buy.


--
sarah.miller - unicycist
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The major financial problem that third world countries have is surely
the lack of free trade between them and the west. Many of the industries
that were traditional industries in these countries, such as
agriculture, are being destroyed because the West subsidise them so much
in their own countries. In agriculture, we subsidise our farmers to
produce food costing next to nothing, so that even though the farmers in
the third world are producing the same food for far less money.

Oddly enough, though most governments are well in favour of free trade
in their speeches, current US, UK and other EU governments seem to
actually all be in favour of increasing subsidies and blocking imports
from the developing world.

The interesting thing about globalisation nowadays, is the globalisation
of skilled jobs that were previously thought to be western specialities.
For example the latest Imac, whilst designed as a concept by Jonathan
Ives, apparently outsourced much of the lower level product design to
the company building it in Taiwan, who also design and build a good
proportion of the worlds Laptop computers. Similarly in India, computer
programming outsourcing is booming. Many people shout about computer
programming outsourcing being slave labour, whilst not realising that
the relatively small wages these programmers are getting are really good
in Indian terms.

The thing about welding bike frames, as opposed to garment making and
the typical things that people are protesting about, is that it's a
highly skilled job. The best welders in the world are almost certainly
in Taiwan and yes, they're willing to work for less than US welders, but
that's still a comparitively good salary in that country. They're
skilled enough for it to be worth the while of the companies employing
them to pay them a sensible wage and to give them alright working
conditions.

Naomi Klein wrote a very good and popular campaign manifesto book, but
she hardly puts across a balanced viewpoint. I could just as well say
you're totally wrong by saying read Popper, Adam Smith, Hazlitt or
Murray Rothbard. They all write very well reasoned cases for why what
you're saying is wrong.

The big problem with just dumbly boycotting a country is that countries
that can't trade globally just go to hell. Nigeria is an interesting
example, there's so much corruption that no-one wants to invest there
and poverty is really going insane. The other example I can think of is
a former soviet republic, which is run by ex-communists, which can't get
any investment because the government every so often put massive
arbitrary taxes on foreign corporations and take away all their money,
so no-one wants to trade there. There's even a whole city for sale,
built to support oil drilling that no-one ever managed to do, which
no-one wants to buy at any price.

Joe


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sarah.miller wrote:
> *buy a wheel made by Mike Hinson and help feeed his unicycle habit,
> all assembed into a unicycle by Miark or Roger, who also have rent to
> pay and food to buy. *


I tried paying Mike for doing my wheel, but he wouldnt have it!!!
I also disagree about buying stuff from Roger and Miark!! :p haha -
only joking! I dont know what I would do without those guys, they are
great! :D


Joe,


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:cool: *www.cool.unicyclist.com* :cool:

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but to show them what can be done on a unicycle' - Sofa

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Gumbo wrote:
> *I think I remember Roger from unicycle.uk.com mentioning a trip to
> Taiwan to a factory. Maybe he could fill us in on the labour
> practices employed there.
> *


Yes I did see the factories... and it is ok, no children!

Had a couple of big revelations. All of unicycle.com unicycles are
assembled and packed in one factory! It is a small business run by a
husband and wife, they were really nice and do it all them selves. This
also includes all the wheel building! This is one of the reasons why
the quality of the packing has improved in the last few years.

The other interesting thing is that the engineers/workers tend to work
for more than one factory and I met the welder who does most of the CrMO
welding in the bike area of Taiwan.... again amazing, this is one guy!


--
rogeratunicycledotcom - ok ish Unicyclist
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Thankyou Roger, that's really interesting, can I suggest if you go again
you could take some photos, maybe put together a piece on the site. It
would be really interseting to see the uni's being born. Oh, and the
Onza Muni I bought from you a couple of weeks back is going great.


--
Gumbo
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The problem with buying a Unicycle built in the West is that it costs so
much. For a DM budget ringmaster costs £99, which is a very good price
for very good quality. But an unbranded 20" unicycle from Unicycle.com
costs £88 - a better price for pretty much the same quality at that
level. For someone already committed to unicycling, and looking to
upgrade, a "Fair trade" unicycle is a decent price for good quality. But
for someone who has seen a unicycle on the TV or something, and decided
they want to learn, £99 is an awful lot to spend on a whim.

Another thing is would smaller, western unicycle manufacturers actually
be able to cope with demand? A friend of mine that visited Dave Mariner
(albeit several years ago, said that his factory was a shed at the
bottom of his garden. And so far as I know, DM is a one-man-band, he is
the only person who makes those unicycles.

Everything in that last paragraph is based on hearsay and guesswork, so
don't shout at me if it's wrong.

This is really all hypothetical though, because as Roger said, just
because unicycles are made more cheaply in Taiwan, doesn't mean that
workers are treated badly - money is worth different amounts in
different countries. There's nothing you can do about it, and boycotting
a country certainly isn't going to help the strength of their currency.


--
theamazingmolio - A Unicylist, a juggler, and a prat

Luke Duller ([email protected])
Never trust anything you read on the internet
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I visited an electronics manufacturer in Taiwan around 3 years ago,
here are some observations:

Canteen food was fantastic, much better than you would expect in the UK
(OK I didn't like the huge Squid that was sometimes in the lunchbox!).

The production staff shift was the same length as the last UK factory I
had visited. A lot of them were from the Philipenes working in Taiwan
for the better money.

At lunchtime the lights are put out to let people have a snooze, with
music played when work is due to start again.

Both morning and afternoon break seemed compulsary for production
staff.

The engineers (non shift workers) on the better salaries work very hard,
and longer hours, atleast when they have customers (like me) on site.

Seemed a good place to work, in my opinion.

Keith


--
keg
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DrBallard wrote:
> *Hump. Counter-replies anyone? Comments? or maybe just... a
> usa/canada/europe crafted brand uni? *


Sorry for the delay, as you said yourself, I have a life outside these
forums and don't always post on every subject.

My comment is this: I spent four months living in central China. Despite
the fact that I was consistently charged double or triple the standard
price for the things I bought, I spent less than $600 in the four months
I was there. True, I didn't throw money around like I could have, but I
lived comfortably and bought things when I felt the need to buy them.
Because of this, I can easily see how someone could make a very good
living in China, and still sell their products for a lot less than what
a Euromerican product would cost.

While I admire the number of books you have read on the subject, the
books you listed presented a biased interpretation of the facts. No, I
haven't read any of them, but by title alone I can tell that the authors
are far from impartial observers. I'm sure they are well cited, but I
would direct you toward the book "UFOs, JFK, and Elvis" by Richard
Belzer. It is a great book in which he proves that a: Man never landed
on the moon, and b: When we got there, we were chased away by extra
terrestrials. He never mentions that the two are mutually exclusive, but
he does manage to cite many sources for both cases.

Well, in a bitter and rambling way, you asked for comments. In a bitter
and rambling way, I have delivered mine.

Rob


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theamazingmolio wrote:
> *The problem with buying a Unicycle built in the West is that it costs
> so much. For a DM budget ringmaster costs £99, which is a very good
> price for very good quality. But an unbranded 20" unicycle from
> Unicycle.com costs £88 - a better price for pretty much the same
> quality at that level. For someone already committed to unicycling,
> and looking to upgrade, a "Fair trade" unicycle is a decent price for
> good quality. But for someone who has seen a unicycle on the TV or
> something, and decided they want to learn, £99 is an awful lot to
> spend on a whim.
> *


I might be wrong, but I think only the DM ringmaster advanced and
giraffes are mainly UK made, the cheaper frames are imported from Taiwan
like everyone else. So you're talking £200 plus before you can get a
similar quality unicycle that's UK built.

Plus, it's not fair trade, it isn't helping people in Taiwan if you buy
a UK made unicycle instead of a Taiwanese one, it's removing their
source of income. According to most economists, it isn't even helping
our economy, our economy is better off if you spend less on the cheaper
unicycle and then spend the rest on other stuff. Which is why the buy
local thing is annoying. Buy local because you're concerned about the
environment and the distance things have travelled by all means, but
don't go around with the blatantly misguided notion that buying local is
in some way helping people in developing nations. Don't buy local
because you think it helps the local economy, this almost certainly
isn't true, certainly no economist would argue this any more.

Some other things -

1) It has been argued that mass production plus travel actually has less
environmental impact than many small and local producers. It'd be
interesting to know if this was true.

2) The raw materials for framebuilding are likely to have come from
faraway parts of the world anyway, so it may just be a matter of at what
point the tubing is sent to the UK/US from Taiwan.

3) Why not write to your MP / Senator/ MEP etc. asking them to stop
subsidising agriculture so much and to stop putting up extra trade
barriers against imports from the developing world.

4) Don't only read things recommended by activists. Read both sides of
the argument. If you've read Naomi Klein and weren't even slightly
cynical about some of No Logo, then you really need to read more.

Joe


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"DrBallard" <[email protected]> writes:

> "should i buy american made products?
> surely financialy assisting the worlds greatest oppressor is a bit
> imorral?"
>
> Yes, you should! We all should!
> First, the are laws in usa which assure that the people crafting the
> gears are not abused.

Not everyone agree with your assessment! US law allows the use of
prison labor which is hardly Fair Trade.

Conversely, I know of at least one company that is trying to make the
world a better place by insisting on high standards for workers,
regardless of the country. They are rightly proud of their factories
in China.

Live well. Make good choices.

Ken
 
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