Anyone taking ZETIA?



On 11-Mar-2004, "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote:

> 1. endothelial dysfunction
> 2. inflammation
> 3. oxidation
> 4. homocysteine
> 5. healthy metabolism of lipids
> 6. platelet aggregation

I should add that this short list will grow with time and
understanding.

--
Winning against heart attack and stroke
http://www.sonoscore.com
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:14:16 GMT, "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>On 8-Mar-2004, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify something: re: expense.
>>
>> For people who have health care, like my self, it is
>> *much* more cost effective to take a statin to lower
>> cholesterol numbers than pay for these OTC options. I
>> just came from my local Vitamin Shoppe and can vouch for
>> that. Under my health plan, I pay $10 for any 90-day
>> prescription.
>>
>> As someone who takes supplements, their cost begins to
>> add up quickly.
>
>If you define your health by the amount of dollars in your
>pocket, you are missing the boat.

Huh?

I was just making a simple point that vitamins/supplements
are not *necessarily* more cost effective than prescription
medicines in response to *your* suggestion that they are.

Do you think that the "holier-than-thou" tone in some
of your posts is helpful? I really don't think I'm
missing any boat.

L.
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:49 GMT, "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>On 10-Mar-2004, [email protected] (Kathy) wrote:
>
>> "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>> >
>> > I might add that there are more important therapeutic
>> > issues other than cholesterol to consider if you are
>> > attempting to attenuate atherosclerosis.
>>
>> Could you tell us what those are?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kathy
>
>Sorry I didn't get to this earlier.
>
>1. endothelial dysfunction
>2. inflammation
>3. oxidation
>4. homocysteine
>5. healthy metabolism of lipids
>6. platelet aggregation

There are credible studies that show statins effective in
the treatment of 1, 2 & 3.

4 can easily be corrected by the addition of folic acid (and
B vitamins) to the diet.

Not exactly sure what you mean by 5 - could you expand on
that?

I would also add lp(a) and fibrinogen to the list.

Thank you.

L.
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:14:16 GMT, "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>On 8-Mar-2004, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify something: re: expense.
>>
>> For people who have health care, like my self, it is
>> *much* more cost effective to take a statin to lower
>> cholesterol numbers than pay for these OTC options. I
>> just came from my local Vitamin Shoppe and can vouch for
>> that. Under my health plan, I pay $10 for any 90-day
>> prescription.
>>
>> As someone who takes supplements, their cost begins to
>> add up quickly.
>
>If you define your health by the amount of dollars in your
>pocket, you are missing the boat.

Huh?

I was just making a simple point that vitamins/supplements
are not *necessarily* more cost effective than prescription
medicines in response to *your* suggestion that they are.

Do you think that the "holier-than-thou" tone in some
of your posts is helpful? I really don't think I'm
missing any boat.

L.
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:49 GMT, "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>On 10-Mar-2004, [email protected] (Kathy) wrote:
>
>> "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>> >
>> > I might add that there are more important therapeutic
>> > issues other than cholesterol to consider if you are
>> > attempting to attenuate atherosclerosis.
>>
>> Could you tell us what those are?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kathy
>
>Sorry I didn't get to this earlier.
>
>1. endothelial dysfunction
>2. inflammation
>3. oxidation
>4. homocysteine
>5. healthy metabolism of lipids
>6. platelet aggregation

There are credible studies that show statins effective in
the treatment of 1, 2 & 3.

4 can easily be corrected by the addition of folic acid (and
B vitamins) to the diet.

Not exactly sure what you mean by 5 - could you expand on
that?

I would also add lp(a) and fibrinogen to the list.

Thank you.

L.
 
Sonos wrote:

> On 11-Mar-2004, "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 1. endothelial dysfunction
> > 2. inflammation
> > 3. oxidation
> > 4. homocysteine
> > 5. healthy metabolism of lipids
> > 6. platelet aggregation
>
> I should add that this short list will grow with time and
> understanding.
>

Put adiposity up at the top in this country (U.S.).

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2DB148A7

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:14:16 GMT, "Sonos"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 8-Mar-2004, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> Just to clarify something: re: expense.
> >>
> >> For people who have health care, like my self, it is
> >> *much* more cost effective to take a statin to lower
> >> cholesterol numbers than pay for these OTC options. I
> >> just came from my local Vitamin Shoppe and can vouch
> >> for that. Under my health plan, I pay $10 for any 90-
> >> day prescription.
> >>
> >> As someone who takes supplements, their cost begins to
> >> add up quickly.
> >
> >If you define your health by the amount of dollars in
> >your pocket, you are missing the boat.
>
> Huh?
>
> I was just making a simple point that vitamins/supplements
> are not *necessarily* more cost effective than
> prescription medicines in response to *your* suggestion
> that they are.
>
> Do you think that the "holier-than-thou" tone in some of
> your posts is helpful? I really don't think I'm missing
> any boat.
>
> L.

You are not missing the boat, Listener :)

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2DB148A7

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:49 GMT, "Sonos"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 10-Mar-2004, [email protected] (Kathy) wrote:
> >
> >> "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:<[email protected]>...
> >> >
> >> > I might add that there are more important therapeutic
> >> > issues other than cholesterol to consider if you are
> >> > attempting to attenuate atherosclerosis.
> >>
> >> Could you tell us what those are?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kathy
> >
> >Sorry I didn't get to this earlier.
> >
> >1. endothelial dysfunction
> >2. inflammation
> >3. oxidation
> >4. homocysteine
> >5. healthy metabolism of lipids
> >6. platelet aggregation
>
> There are credible studies that show statins effective in
> the treatment of 1, 2 & 3.
>
> 4 can easily be corrected by the addition of folic acid
> (and B vitamins) to the diet.
>
> Not exactly sure what you mean by 5 - could you expand
> on that?
>
> I would also add lp(a) and fibrinogen to the list.
>
> Thank you.
>
> L.

... and adiposity... and hsCRP... and aging... and
smoking... and environmental toxins... and radiation
exposure...

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2DB148A7

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
Sonos wrote:

> On 11-Mar-2004, "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 1. endothelial dysfunction
> > 2. inflammation
> > 3. oxidation
> > 4. homocysteine
> > 5. healthy metabolism of lipids
> > 6. platelet aggregation
>
> I should add that this short list will grow with time and
> understanding.
>

Put adiposity up at the top in this country (U.S.).

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2DB148A7

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
On 11-Mar-2004, [email protected] wrote:

> >If you define your health by the amount of dollars in
> >your pocket, you are missing the boat.
>
> Huh?
>
> I was just making a simple point that vitamins/supplements
> are not *necessarily* more cost effective than
> prescription medicines in response to *your* suggestion
> that they are.

I think cost goes beyond simple dollars. It includes not
only financial burden, but mental burden and physical burden
that one must endure to fight this disease. It also takes
personal time, which is costly, to understand the disease.
Complication from therapy is 'costly' too.
>
> Do you think that the "holier-than-thou" tone in some of
> your posts is helpful?

No. It has not been my intention to have such an attitude
and in fact I deplore it. I would like you to give me some
suggestions on how I can improve my tone. I also want to
thank you for bringing this to my attention. You are not the
first one to comment on this issue, btw.

>I really don't think I'm missing any boat.

I am sorry for this flipant remark, and in the rush to
complete some of these posts, quickly responded without
giving much thought to how it may be interpreted. This is
not a personal attack on you, but to address a terrible
frustration of mine when I see patients choose their
insurance formulary (that is determined in part by lobbying
efforts of pharma) over a better choice that is not on their
formulary. For an additional 30 dollars a month (for
example), a patient may have less cost in the long run, such
as lower complication rates, better efficacy, and most
importantly, better physical and mental health. Add to this
the constant change in formulary from year to year, and the
'cost' patients must endure over time with additional tests,
visits, and complications to change to the new formulary.

Your health is a wonderful gift, and something to be
cherished. The politics of medicine run very very deep, and
are quite disturbing. It would be a lot simpler to pretend
it isn't a problem.

>
> L.

--
Winning against heart attack and stroke
http://www.sonoscore.com
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:14:16 GMT, "Sonos"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 8-Mar-2004, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> Just to clarify something: re: expense.
> >>
> >> For people who have health care, like my self, it is
> >> *much* more cost effective to take a statin to lower
> >> cholesterol numbers than pay for these OTC options. I
> >> just came from my local Vitamin Shoppe and can vouch
> >> for that. Under my health plan, I pay $10 for any 90-
> >> day prescription.
> >>
> >> As someone who takes supplements, their cost begins to
> >> add up quickly.
> >
> >If you define your health by the amount of dollars in
> >your pocket, you are missing the boat.
>
> Huh?
>
> I was just making a simple point that vitamins/supplements
> are not *necessarily* more cost effective than
> prescription medicines in response to *your* suggestion
> that they are.
>
> Do you think that the "holier-than-thou" tone in some of
> your posts is helpful? I really don't think I'm missing
> any boat.
>
> L.

You are not missing the boat, Listener :)

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2DB148A7

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
When I put the list together, at first I had # 6 as
'hypercoagulation'. Fibrinogen would fit better under that
term instead.

#5 was included in part to address a common problem with
#trans fats; I often
tell individuals that the trans fats prevent healthy
metabolism of lipids (among other things). Niacin improves
this function; there are many benefits from niacin (Vit B3)
that are poorly understood. BTW, I have found that those who
cannot tolerate higher doses of niacin can begin to to so by
taking higher doses of B6, Folic acid, and B12. I can't
explain it, but I have seen it over and over again. Aspirin
is often recommended to avoid the flushing effect, but the B
vitamins seem to do the same (although at higher dollar
cost) and appear (in my experience) to help prevent
elevation of the liver enzymes. When I first discovered
this, it reminded me of how a Bcomplex vitamin like Folgard
2.2 (25 mg B6, 2.2 mg Folic acid, 0.5 mg B12) is often given
to those taking isoniazid for tuburcolosis problems; it
helps prevent similar liver complications.

--
Winning against heart attack and stroke
http://www.sonoscore.com
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:49 GMT, "Sonos"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 10-Mar-2004, [email protected] (Kathy) wrote:
> >
> >> "Sonos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:<[email protected]>...
> >> >
> >> > I might add that there are more important therapeutic
> >> > issues other than cholesterol to consider if you are
> >> > attempting to attenuate atherosclerosis.
> >>
> >> Could you tell us what those are?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kathy
> >
> >Sorry I didn't get to this earlier.
> >
> >1. endothelial dysfunction
> >2. inflammation
> >3. oxidation
> >4. homocysteine
> >5. healthy metabolism of lipids
> >6. platelet aggregation
>
> There are credible studies that show statins effective in
> the treatment of 1, 2 & 3.
>
> 4 can easily be corrected by the addition of folic acid
> (and B vitamins) to the diet.
>
> Not exactly sure what you mean by 5 - could you expand
> on that?
>
> I would also add lp(a) and fibrinogen to the list.
>
> Thank you.
>
> L.

... and adiposity... and hsCRP... and aging... and
smoking... and environmental toxins... and radiation
exposure...

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2DB148A7

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
On 11-Mar-2004, [email protected] wrote:

> >If you define your health by the amount of dollars in
> >your pocket, you are missing the boat.
>
> Huh?
>
> I was just making a simple point that vitamins/supplements
> are not *necessarily* more cost effective than
> prescription medicines in response to *your* suggestion
> that they are.

I think cost goes beyond simple dollars. It includes not
only financial burden, but mental burden and physical burden
that one must endure to fight this disease. It also takes
personal time, which is costly, to understand the disease.
Complication from therapy is 'costly' too.
>
> Do you think that the "holier-than-thou" tone in some of
> your posts is helpful?

No. It has not been my intention to have such an attitude
and in fact I deplore it. I would like you to give me some
suggestions on how I can improve my tone. I also want to
thank you for bringing this to my attention. You are not the
first one to comment on this issue, btw.

>I really don't think I'm missing any boat.

I am sorry for this flipant remark, and in the rush to
complete some of these posts, quickly responded without
giving much thought to how it may be interpreted. This is
not a personal attack on you, but to address a terrible
frustration of mine when I see patients choose their
insurance formulary (that is determined in part by lobbying
efforts of pharma) over a better choice that is not on their
formulary. For an additional 30 dollars a month (for
example), a patient may have less cost in the long run, such
as lower complication rates, better efficacy, and most
importantly, better physical and mental health. Add to this
the constant change in formulary from year to year, and the
'cost' patients must endure over time with additional tests,
visits, and complications to change to the new formulary.

Your health is a wonderful gift, and something to be
cherished. The politics of medicine run very very deep, and
are quite disturbing. It would be a lot simpler to pretend
it isn't a problem.

>
> L.

--
Winning against heart attack and stroke
http://www.sonoscore.com
 
When I put the list together, at first I had # 6 as
'hypercoagulation'. Fibrinogen would fit better under that
term instead.

#5 was included in part to address a common problem with
#trans fats; I often
tell individuals that the trans fats prevent healthy
metabolism of lipids (among other things). Niacin improves
this function; there are many benefits from niacin (Vit B3)
that are poorly understood. BTW, I have found that those who
cannot tolerate higher doses of niacin can begin to to so by
taking higher doses of B6, Folic acid, and B12. I can't
explain it, but I have seen it over and over again. Aspirin
is often recommended to avoid the flushing effect, but the B
vitamins seem to do the same (although at higher dollar
cost) and appear (in my experience) to help prevent
elevation of the liver enzymes. When I first discovered
this, it reminded me of how a Bcomplex vitamin like Folgard
2.2 (25 mg B6, 2.2 mg Folic acid, 0.5 mg B12) is often given
to those taking isoniazid for tuburcolosis problems; it
helps prevent similar liver complications.

--
Winning against heart attack and stroke
http://www.sonoscore.com
 
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