Anyone trained while eating keto?

[Weatherby]

This is kinda what Ben Greenfield says, a trainer who competes in triathlon competitions. He's a big advocate of the keto diet - or the "keto-ish" diet - and reckons that the fat-adapted state you talk about is ideal for lower intensity, longer duration events like that.

Greenfield was a subject in Volek's FASTER study that was discussed in the article that I linked.

Being fat adapted does not mean you cannot eat carbs. It is a matter of what, when and how much. On a long ride (more than 10 hours), I will usually not eat anything for breakfast except a coffee. So, I start the ride burning fat (low insulin and blood sugar levels). I won't start eating on the bike until about an hour into it and I do consume carbs but a lot less than the average riders. I stay in nutritional ketosis. Granted I am riding fairly slow. My pace on long rides is only 21-22 mph but when fit, I can maintain this for 24 hours eating a bit less than 200 calories per hour. I am also not young. I estimate that 75% of my energy comes from fat at these power levels (around 210 watts). It is a fool's errand not to have glycogen to burn. I don't understand some Keto dieters who eat only fat on the bike. I burn my own and supplement just enough carbs to not cause an insulin spike. It just makes fueling a lot easier especially when it is hot. I was in an event and for logistical reasons, I did not have access to food (other than 4 bottles with my stuff in it) for like 447 KM. If i was not fat adapted, I would have been toast. I finished the 1230 KM ride w/o sleep although when I did get food, all the rules went out the window.

 

[jimmy484]

Greenfield was a subject in Volek's FASTER study that was discussed in the article that I linked.

Being fat adapted does not mean you cannot eat carbs. It is a matter of what, when and how much.....

Yes, definitely. Given that muscle glycogen cannot enter the blood stream for general use, and can only be used by the muscle it's associated to, it'd be mad not to "re-carb" at least periodically to keep those working muscles fueled. Plus, like you say, strategically arranging the "when" of carbohydrate consumption, especially during training, can mean you stay in nutritional ketosis for all intents and purposes.

 

[Jcycle]

Ketogenic diets are garbage based on misconceptions about how the body works. There are 3 possible sources of energy for the body. Carbs (when broken down into glucose), Protein, and fat. Favoring one or two over another will only work in the short term and increase the risks of unhealthy affects from whichever you are favoring. Eating a balanced diet with the right amounts of all 3 for your activity level and needs is the only way to go. Contrary to popular belief any of the 3 can be stored as fat if eaten in excess.

 

[jimmy484]

Eating a balanced diet with the right amounts of all 3 for your activity level and needs is the only way to go. Contrary to popular belief any of the 3 can be stored as fat if eaten in excess.

I definitely agree that ultimately, it's calories in vs calories out when it comes to diet, and ensuring adequate fuel for your activity level is crucial.

That said, however, I do think that micro-nutrient partitioning can be a useful strategy if implemented correctly. The approach of "a calorie is a calorie" isn't always true, especially when you consider recovery profiles for high-level athletes.

The truth is, diet shouldn't be complicated, but finding what works for you is key. This can take a while though - I know it did for me.....

 

[Weatherby]

Lot of garbage to say very little.

Ketogenic diets are garbage based on misconceptions about how the body works. There are 3 possible sources of energy for the body. Carbs (when broken down into glucose), Protein, and fat. Favoring one or two over another will only work in the short term and increase the risks of unhealthy affects from whichever you are favoring. Eating a balanced diet with the right amounts of all 3 for your activity level and needs is the only way to go. Contrary to popular belief any of the 3 can be stored as fat if eaten in excess.

 

[Weatherby]

http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

You can eat more calories and lose more weight on a low carb diet than on a high carb diet.

Blood profiles improve, too.

Please pass the butter.

 

[Jcycle]

http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

You can eat more calories and lose more weight on a low carb diet than on a high carb diet.

Blood profiles improve, too.

Please pass the butter.

Link a real study from an accredited and valid source like JAMA. What you linked uses cherry picked data and is biased towards a certain outcome.

 

[Jcycle]

I wanted to add that the "Please pass the butter" attitude is a great way to raise triglyceride and cholesteral. So even if @Weatherby 's idea of a good diet worked for weight loss you are going to have a skinny person at severe risk for a heart attack or stroke. I would rather be fat with low cholesterol than skinny and dead.

 

[Weatherby]

What is wrong with cholesterol? Try it, your brain might thank you. Cholesterol does not cause disease. Let me be more direct, there is NO scientific evidence that cholesteral (sic) causes either heart attacks or strokes. It is a myth. Read the Framingham study.

 

[Weatherby]

Link a real study from an accredited and valid source like JAMA. What you linked uses cherry picked data and is biased towards a certain outcome.

There were 23 studies in that link. I tried to make it easy for you.

 

[Jcycle]

There were 23 studies in that link. I tried to make it easy for you.

23 garbage studies in a link to a garbage source is still garbage. I never said reducing carbs is bad if you are eating to many.

 

[Jcycle]

What is wrong with cholesterol? Try it, your brain might thank you. Cholesterol does not cause disease. Let me be more direct, there is NO scientific evidence that cholesteral (sic) causes either heart attacks or strokes. It is a myth. Read the Framingham study.

What is wrong with cholesterol? Try it, your brain might thank you. Cholesterol does not cause disease. Let me be more direct, there is NO scientific evidence that cholesteral (sic) causes either heart attacks or strokes. It is a myth. Read the Framingham study.

You are either daft or just easily duped. Thankfully there is the ignore option since your the type to get a wrong or ignorant idea in your head and refuse to be confused by reality or facts.

 

[Bigbananabike]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

His filthy language is bad....passion apparently but he makes good sense.

 

[BikeBikeBikeBike]

Keto isn't a proper diet, it is a way to treat epilepsy....
I freaking hate "diets" anyways. It's BS. In the grand scheme it's not healthy to radically change how you eat for short periods of time.

 

[Bigbananabike]

Keto isn't a proper diet, it is a way to treat epilepsy....
I freaking hate "diets" anyways. It's BS. In the grand scheme it's not healthy to radically change how you eat for short periods of time.

I doubt Keto type eating actually helps those with Epilepsy. As an example we have friends with a son with bad Epilepsy. They were very disciplined in changing his diet and it basically had no effect.

I agree with you re short term "diets" but we all have a 'diet' = the stuff we eat so we might as well make it high nutrition, low fat and enjoyable

 

[solmon]

Greenfield was a subject in Volek's FASTER study that was discussed in the article that I linked.

Being fat adapted does not mean you cannot eat carbs. It is a matter of what, when and how much. On a long ride (more than 10 hours), I will usually not eat anything for breakfast except a coffee. So, I start the ride burning fat (low insulin and blood sugar levels). I won't start eating on the bike until about an hour into it and I do consume carbs but a lot less than the average riders. I stay in nutritional ketosis. Granted I am riding fairly slow. My pace on long rides is only 21-22 mph but when fit, I can maintain this for 24 hours eating a bit less than 200 calories per hour. I am also not young. I estimate that 75% of my energy comes from fat at these power levels (around 210 watts). It is a fool's errand not to have glycogen to burn. I don't understand some Keto dieters who eat only fat on the bike. I burn my own and supplement just enough carbs to not cause an insulin spike. It just makes fueling a lot easier especially when it is hot. I was in an event and for logistical reasons, I did not have access to food (other than 4 bottles with my stuff in it) for like 447 KM. If i was not fat adapted, I would have been toast. I finished the 1230 KM ride w/o sleep although when I did get food, all the rules went out the window.

Nice info you shared with us

 

[Jcycle]

Nice info you shared with us

Why are you responding to a dead topic with a one line message? Do you have something to gain by doing it? I only ask because you didn't ask a relevant question or add any pertinent information with your post. It is kind of frustrating to see these kind of replies that don't seem to do anything but raise a person's post count.

 

[Froze]

I'm not a dietician, nor a doctor, but over the years I've heard so many negatives about eating foods that are high in fat, I can't buy into this stuff, I think it's more of effort to sell a book. The diet is basically this: "The ketogenic diet (keto) is a low-carb, high-fat diet. It lowers blood sugar and insulin levels, and shifts the body’s metabolism away from carbs and towards fat and ketones". That seems great but do they have solid scientific support of all this? Has this diet been studied for 10 years or longer? What about cholesterol levels?

Well since I never heard of this diet I had to read a bunch of stuff on the internet to get up to 1/2 speed on the subject...interesting to say the least but being programmed for the last 30 years that fat is bad for you I'm having a difficult time swallowing (no pun intended) this information. I think more time needs to evolve before a decision can be reached.

I have heard rumors that a theory exists that alzheimer's, which is different than dementia, may be due to starving the brain of fat! All these people from my generation are drinking no fat milk, lean cut meats, margarine (which I think is worse for you than butter due to the cancer connection with the ingredients), some doing nothing but veggie diets, etc, doesn't allow enough cholesterol to go and feed the brain of the very nutrient that it is supposedly made mostly of! And it was during my generation and the one before mine is where alzheimer's is on a very rapid increase and it has doctors and scientists worried and wondering why just those in the last two generations? what is different? And they all seem to be looking at possibility of too low cholesterol levels.

Again, the ketogenic diet may be good idea, or maybe in 20 or more years from now they'll look back and say that it was a bad idea. Remember the egg? for years eggs were good for you, then for years eggs were bad for you, now it's good again. There is a lot science just doesn't know.

 

[Jcycle]

I'm not a dietician, nor a doctor, but over the years I've heard so many negatives about eating foods that are high in fat, I can't buy into this stuff, I think it's more of effort to sell a book. The diet is basically this: "The ketogenic diet (keto) is a low-carb, high-fat diet. It lowers blood sugar and insulin levels, and shifts the body’s metabolism away from carbs and towards fat and ketones". That seems great but do they have solid scientific support of all this? Has this diet been studied for 10 years or longer? What about cholesterol levels?

Well since I never heard of this diet I had to read a bunch of stuff on the internet to get up to 1/2 speed on the subject...interesting to say the least but being programmed for the last 30 years that fat is bad for you I'm having a difficult time swallowing (no pun intended) this information. I think more time needs to evolve before a decision can be reached.

I have heard rumors that a theory exists that alzheimer's, which is different than dementia, may be due to starving the brain of fat! All these people from my generation are drinking no fat milk, lean cut meats, margarine (which I think is worse for you than butter due to the cancer connection with the ingredients), some doing nothing but veggie diets, etc, doesn't allow enough cholesterol to go and feed the brain of the very nutrient that it is supposedly made mostly of! And it was during my generation and the one before mine is where alzheimer's is on a very rapid increase and it has doctors and scientists worried and wondering why just those in the last two generations? what is different? And they all seem to be looking at possibility of too low cholesterol levels.

Again, the ketogenic diet may be good idea, or maybe in 20 or more years from now they'll look back and say that it was a bad idea. Remember the egg? for years eggs were good for you, then for years eggs were bad for you, now it's good again. There is a lot science just doesn't know.

There are already cases of people shifting from ketosis to ketoacidos which is deadly. Ketosis is meant to be a temporary survival mode for the body. It isn't safe to maintain and there are already incidences of higher cholesterol and cardio-vascular problems for doing this long term. It doesn't take 20 years for these health issues to crop up so we don't need that much time to study it.

 

[Froze]

There are already cases of people shifting from ketosis to ketoacidos which is deadly. Ketosis is meant to be a temporary survival mode for the body. It isn't safe to maintain and there are already incidences of higher cholesterol and cardio-vascular problems for doing this long term. It doesn't take 20 years for these health issues to crop up so we don't need that much time to study it.

OK, that's what I was thinking too. The diet just doesn't make sense, at least to me. So i'm glad you responded to stop perhaps someone here from thinking it's safe to do and end up with a serious problem that could have deadly consequences.

Just in case someone is reading the same nonsense I've read and is still out on the limb, do you have reference for those studies for them to read? Meaning of course to post it here. Thanks.