Anyone tried the "Green Light Trigger Device"?

[Fritz M]

Erik Freitag <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'll probably just buy one of the darned things and try it.

Please report back on its utility. I'm skeptical, and their page complaining that magazine reviewers
don't test it properly makes me even more suspicious.

RFM
--
To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

 

[Dave Kahn]

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Trackstanding stops aren't allowed in Gainesville Florida. Even though the state statute doesn't
> say a word about stopping with a foot down, the lack of movement of the wheels means **** to cops.

Not allowed by the cops or not allowed by the courts? What is the legal definition of stopping to
satisfy the requirements of a stop sign in Florida? Does the legal definition vary from state to
state, or even from city to city? Do Gainesville's finest prosecute motorists who don't open their
door and put a foot on the pavement at stop signs? I would have thought that if the wheels were not
rolling and the tyres were not skidding you were stopped.

I'm in the UK BTW and genuinely interested in the answers.

--
Dave...

 

[Erik Freitag]

In <[email protected]> Chris Zacho "The Wheelman wrote:
> "Brick walls"? LOL! Seriously, though, yes I once tried epoxy-ing a strong magnet onto the
> underside of one of my Look pedals and, as I stood at the stop light sensor, would backpedal, just
> to stir up those inductive electromagnetic fields as much as I darn well could.
>
> And yes, it did work at about 40% of the red lights (this was in California's San Fernando
> Valley). However, I found the "lean the bike over the sensor ring" trick to be much more
> effective.

I have leaned my bike over so far at this intersection that auto drivers have asked if I needed
help. The answer, of course, is "yes", but aside from pulling into the left turn lane and triggering
the light, there's little they could do. I sent an email to the county traffic engineering
department and actually got a call from a real life engineer. He "explained" that the loop detector
could not detect bicycles (mine's an all-steel Trek 520), and suggested that I push the pedestrian
button. Since that requires (a) pushing the button once to cross and again to go left, (b) an extra
5-6 minutes at this busy intersection, I choose (c) wait until oncoming traffic goes by and go left
on a red arrow. 50% of the time, I get lucky and a bread truck or something is already in the
left-turn lane or a sheriff's car pulls up behind me and trips the light.

 

[Richard Kaiser]

And you have complained to the appropriate traffic departments?

A record of continued complaints until fixed strengthens our needed for functioning signals and aids
legal defence for having to "run" defective signals.

Richard

On Wed, 14 May 2003 16:25:21 -0700, Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote: ...
> And yes, it did work at about 40% of the red lights (this was in California's San Fernando
> Valley). However, I found the "lean the bike over the sensor ring" trick to be much more
> effective. All but three of the red lights or left turn arrows I have encountered have failed to
> respond to it. one in Canoga Park, Ca. One in Thousand Oaks, Ca. One in Rock hill, SC.
>
> May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris
>
> Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Trudi Marrapodi]

In article <2Xqwa.583717$OV.554469@rwcrnsc54>, "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Trudi Marrapodi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Personally, I think every cyclist out there who doesn't follow the rules of the road when he's
> > on it makes the case for good cyclists weaker--because he convinces motorists that cyclists have
> > some sort of unfair advantage over them because they don't have to obey the traffic laws, or
> > that cyclists simply choose to disregard them. It's this kind of feeling that probably often
> > spawns the "Get off the f****** road!" mentality.
>
> I've heard this argument often, but I don't believe it. I think it's just a convenient
> rationalization for motorists and cops to use to justify their dislike for cyclists. Motorists
> also get real testy about cyclists slowing them down, even in stop & go traffic, where it's easy
> to see that there's no real impact. Most hostile drivers seem to be suffering the misunderstanding
> that cyclists are require to stay out of their way, or aren't allowed on the street at all. At
> least this is what the communicative ones tell me.

I think much of this is true, but the fear some motorists have for bicycles because "I never know
what they're gonna do" has to fairly be taken into account. I have had nice, decent little-old-lady
friends of mine express this anxiety, and frankly I can't blame them for not wanting to share the
road with someone whose actions are unpredictable.

Think of how much you'd enjoy sharing the road with a motorist who didn't use turn signals or
lights, and didn't think the red lights applied to him. Or someone who forgot he wasn't in England
anymore and was driving on the wrong side of the road. Or who always drove around traffic jams.
--
Trudi "Just like Pagliacci did..."--Smokey Robinson
____
Say NO to secret judging and corruption in skating -- support SkateFAIR! http://www.skatefair.org

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
(Trudi Marrapodi) writes:

> I think much of this is true, but the fear some motorists have for bicycles because "I never know
> what they're gonna do" has to fairly be taken into account. I have had nice, decent
> little-old-lady friends of mine express this anxiety, and frankly I can't blame them for not
> wanting to share the road with someone whose actions are unpredictable.
>
> Think of how much you'd enjoy sharing the road with a motorist who didn't use turn signals
> or lights

I often do. Also, drivers who shortcut the wrong way around neighbourhood traffic circles, or who
notice a parking spot over on the wrong side of the street and immediately bee-line for it
regardless of oncoming or upcoming traffic, or who don't come to a complete stop and let pedestrians
cross while doing their right-on-red thing, or who roll through stop lines, or who lean a bunch of
2x4s over the side of their little utility trailer so as to clip unsuspecting cyclists from behind
as they pass them, etc.

So, a lot of drivers don't have much to be proud of, either -- in spite of the good examples set by
better drivers.

I've come to the cynical conclusion that trying to change the world by being a "good example" just
makes suckers of us.

I still believe in doing The Right/Good Thing, and not doing The Wrong/Bad Thing (even though I
sometimes fail). But I'll do it just for my own conscience, and let other ppl deal with their own
consciences. But from where I sit, drivers in general have no moral position from which to criticize
cyclists in general.

I believe there's nothing constructive to be gained in cyclists and drivers complaining about each
other's behaviour; or complaining about their /own/ behaviours & images, for that matter.

I guess to improve the respective images of both cyclists and drivers, we'd have to alter human
nature ;-)

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

 

[Archer]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Trudi Marrapodi) writes:
>
> > I think much of this is true, but the fear some motorists have for bicycles because "I never
> > know what they're gonna do" has to fairly be taken into account. I have had nice, decent
> > little-old-lady friends of mine express this anxiety, and frankly I can't blame them for not
> > wanting to share the road with someone whose actions are unpredictable.
> >
> > Think of how much you'd enjoy sharing the road with a motorist who didn't use turn signals or
> > lights
>
> I often do. Also, drivers who shortcut the wrong way around neighbourhood traffic circles, or who
> notice a parking spot over on the wrong side of the street and immediately bee-line for it
> regardless of oncoming or upcoming traffic, or who don't come to a complete stop and let
> pedestrians cross while doing their right-on-red thing, or who roll through stop lines, or who
> lean a bunch of 2x4s over the side of their little utility trailer so as to clip unsuspecting
> cyclists from behind as they pass them, etc.

In my area, I would say that *as a percentage of the number on the road*, far more bicycylists run
red lights and stop signs than cars do. That gives bicyclists a bad reputation as "the rules don't
apply to me" kid of people. Of course, cars do lots of other stupid dangerous things, many of which
bicyclists do not do.

....

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

 

[Bob Bayn]

David Kerber <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> responded in a thread about "scofflawness" of cyclists
vs motorists:
> In my area, I would say that *as a percentage of the number on the road*, far more bicycylists run
> red lights and stop signs than cars do. That gives bicyclists a bad reputation as "the rules don't
> apply to me" kid of people. Of course, cars do lots of other stupid dangerous things, many of
> which bicyclists do not do.

I listened to the "scofflaw" cyclist complaint from a city council member a while back when we were
requesting a declaration of bike month. My response was that there were scofflaws among both bike
riders and car drivers but the capabilities and limitations of the respective vehicles lead to
different violations when short term self-interest outweighed the inducements to obey the laws that
applied to all. So we get speeding motorists (because they can) and stop sign running cyclists
(because stopping and starting is so much extra effort), etc. And both motorists and cyclists tend
to minimize the significance of the violations that are typical of their own group while demonizing
the violations of the other. The council member agreed that this was probably the case.

David might be right about the percentage of scofflawness being higher among cyclists, but I'd
suggest that could be because our cultural traditions give cyclists poor guidance and our law
enforcement doesn't help either. If we could just replace all of the mothers' admonitions to "watch
out for cars" and health care's extraordinary emphasis on "wear your helmet" with "same roads, same
rights, same rules" and "most hazards are in front of you, not behind you."

--
Bob Bayn Welcome to Cache Valley; o AUS/N&CS Please set your chronometer \__^\=* Utah State Univ
back 20 years and 10 minutes. (O)""""o

 

[Pete]

"archer" <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> wrote

>
> In my area, I would say that *as a percentage of the number on the road*, far more bicycylists run
> red lights and stop signs than cars do. That gives bicyclists a bad reputation as "the rules don't
> apply to me" kid of people. Of course, cars do lots of other stupid dangerous things, many of
> which bicyclists do not do.

I invite you to sit at any reasonably busy traffic signal. I'd be very surprised if that, at 8 out
of 10 light cycles, there were not one or more people sneaking through when the light was red.

Do cyclists run red lights? Sure. All the time (fools). And so do car drivers. Again, I'd be
surprised if it could not be shown that on almost *every* drive, one or more laws were broken. Most
of these are very minor (27 in a 25 zone), but still legal laws being broken.

Pete

 

[Mike Iglesias]

In article <[email protected]>, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
>I invite you to sit at any reasonably busy traffic signal. I'd be very surprised if that, at 8 out
>of 10 light cycles, there were not one or more people sneaking through when the light was red.

At a busy intersection near my house, they are putting in one of those photo systems to catch
red-light runners (very few cyclists go thru this intersection). Before the installed the system
they did a test to see how many people ran the red lights there. Over an 18 hour period about 250
people ran the red lights.

--
Mike Iglesias Email: [email protected] University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I invite you to sit at any reasonably busy traffic signal. I'd be very surprised if that, at
> >8 out of 10 light cycles, there were not one or more people sneaking through when the light
> >was red.
>
> At a busy intersection near my house, they are putting in one of those photo systems to catch
> red-light runners (very few cyclists go thru this intersection). Before the installed the system
> they did a test to see how many people ran the red lights there. Over an 18 hour period about 250
> people ran the red lights.

Out of how many total vehicles?

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> "archer" <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >
> > In my area, I would say that *as a percentage of the number on the road*, far more bicycylists
> > run red lights and stop signs than cars do. That gives bicyclists a bad reputation as "the rules
> > don't apply to me" kid of people. Of course, cars do lots of other stupid dangerous things, many
> > of which bicyclists do not do.
>
> I invite you to sit at any reasonably busy traffic signal. I'd be very surprised if that, at 8 out
> of 10 light cycles, there were not one or more people sneaking through when the light was red.

Probably, but that is only one out of at least dozens, and maybe hundreds of cars. I see probably at
least 1 out of every 4 bikes running red lights around here.

> Do cyclists run red lights? Sure. All the time (fools). And so do car drivers. Again, I'd be
> surprised if it could not be shown that on almost *every* drive, one or more laws were broken.
> Most of these are very minor (27 in a 25 zone), but still legal laws being broken.

I'm more concerned about the danger and disrespect for other people on the road than I am the
technical legality. I speed all the time even on my bike down several of the hills in the 25-mph
zones around here.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

 

[Buck]

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >I invite you to sit at any reasonably busy traffic signal. I'd be very surprised if that, at 8
> > >out of 10 light cycles, there were not one or
more
> > >people sneaking through when the light was red.
> >
> > At a busy intersection near my house, they are putting in one of those photo systems to catch
> > red-light runners (very few cyclists go thru this intersection). Before the installed the system
> > they did a test to see how many people ran the red lights there. Over an 18 hour period about
> > 250 people ran the red lights.
>
> Out of how many total vehicles?

This is also an indication that the yellow light is timed improperly. The engineers are supposed to
time the light so that the traffic has the opportunity to stop from the full speed at which the
traffic is moving (not necessarily the speed limit). This has been batted around on the internet for
a while and has now moved to the news media. I saw a "special investigation" about this very thing
on the news a few nights ago. The intersections that had the highest accident rates also had yellow
lights timed too short for the speed at which traffic was moving. Of course, there was the
obligatory interviews with traffic engineering experts from the Texas Transportation Institute, the
local traffic engineers (no comment!), etc.

The problem of too short a yellow is a real phenomenon here in Texas. You might see how long the
yellow lights stay on at the intersection you are talking about.

-Buck

 

[Bernie]

Tom Keats wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> (Trudi Marrapodi) writes:
>
> > I think much of this is true, but the fear some motorists have for bicycles because "I never
> > know what they're gonna do" has to fairly be taken into account. I have had nice, decent
> > little-old-lady friends of mine express this anxiety, and frankly I can't blame them for not
> > wanting to share the road with someone whose actions are unpredictable.
> >
> > Think of how much you'd enjoy sharing the road with a motorist who didn't use turn signals or
> > lights
>
> I often do. Also, drivers who shortcut the wrong way around neighbourhood traffic circles, or who
> notice a parking spot over on the wrong side of the street and immediately bee-line for it
> regardless of oncoming or upcoming traffic, or who don't come to a complete stop and let
> pedestrians cross while doing their right-on-red thing, or who roll through stop lines, or who
> lean a bunch of 2x4s over the side of their little utility trailer so as to clip unsuspecting
> cyclists from behind as they pass them, etc.
>
> So, a lot of drivers don't have much to be proud of, either -- in spite of the good examples set
> by better drivers.
>
> I've come to the cynical conclusion that trying to change the world by being a "good example" just
> makes suckers of us.
>
> I still believe in doing The Right/Good Thing, and not doing The Wrong/Bad Thing (even though I
> sometimes fail). But I'll do it just for my own conscience, and let other ppl deal with their own
> consciences. But from where I sit, drivers in general have no moral position from which to
> criticize cyclists in general.
>
> I believe there's nothing constructive to be gained in cyclists and drivers complaining about each
> other's behaviour; or complaining about their /own/ behaviours & images, for that matter.
>
> I guess to improve the respective images of both cyclists and drivers, we'd have to alter human
> nature ;-)
>
> cheers, Tom
>
> --
> -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
> [point] bc [point] ca

"Live your Faith" Bernie

 

[John Albergo]

A Muzi wrote:

>
>
>
>The sad truth is that a ticket will hardly change the behavior of those so little civlized as to
>argue that they should be exempt from normal traffic rules. And I am not exaggerating either.
>Many cyclists here will tell you with a straight face that stop signs should not apply to
>cyclists! As if!
>
I happen to agree with the notion that stop signs should be treated as yield signs for cyclists. We
don't require pedestrians to come to a full and complete stop before crossing the street. The
reasons for that translate well to cycling. You're in a position to accurately judge the safety of
crossing and you are also far more likely than anyone else to be injured in the event of
misjudgement. I'm not suggesting carte blanche for screaming through intersections, but appropriate
yield behavior. I believe I've read that at least one state actually does sanction this
interpretation and that it is also practiced in other countries.

 

[John Albergo]

Trudi Marrapodi wrote:

>Think of how much you'd enjoy sharing the road with a motorist who didn't use turn signals or
>lights, and didn't think the red lights applied to him. Or someone who forgot he wasn't in England
>anymore and was driving on the wrong side of the road. Or who always drove around traffic jams.
>

I see it every day (except for the forgetting about not being in England part).

 

[Trudi Marrapodi]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> (Trudi Marrapodi) writes:
>
> > I think much of this is true, but the fear some motorists have for bicycles because "I never
> > know what they're gonna do" has to fairly be taken into account. I have had nice, decent
> > little-old-lady friends of mine express this anxiety, and frankly I can't blame them for not
> > wanting to share the road with someone whose actions are unpredictable.
> >
> > Think of how much you'd enjoy sharing the road with a motorist who didn't use turn signals or
> > lights
>
> I often do.

I had a feeling someone would say that. ;-)

> Also, drivers who shortcut the wrong way around neighbourhood traffic circles, or who notice a
> parking spot over on the wrong side of the street and immediately bee-line for it regardless of
> oncoming or upcoming traffic, or who don't come to a complete stop and let pedestrians cross while
> doing their right-on-red thing, or who roll through stop lines, or who lean a bunch of 2x4s over
> the side of their little utility trailer so as to clip unsuspecting cyclists from behind as they
> pass them, etc.

Exactly. So, if these people are horses' butts in a motor vehicle, are they any less of a horse's
butt on a bike?

> So, a lot of drivers don't have much to be proud of, either -- in spite of the good examples set
> by better drivers.

Right. The trouble is, some people have come to expect unpredictability in cyclists because they
have had experience with so many unpredictable cyclists, because the habits of many cyclists are
even worse, in part because they are so poorly educated as to how to do it right.

> I've come to the cynical conclusion that trying to change the world by being a "good example" just
> makes suckers of us.

Well then, what are we to do? Be a BAD example? How does that help matters any?

> I still believe in doing The Right/Good Thing, and not doing The Wrong/Bad Thing (even though I
> sometimes fail). But I'll do it just for my own conscience, and let other ppl deal with their own
> consciences. But from where I sit, drivers in general have no moral position from which to
> criticize cyclists in general.

Oh, they don't--but that doesn't mean they aren't often right about what some cyclists do,
sad to say.

> I believe there's nothing constructive to be gained in cyclists and drivers complaining about each
> other's behaviour; or complaining about their /own/ behaviours & images, for that matter.

Well, if they'd give a thoughtful listen to what the other is saying, maybe it'd make them think
twice before doing stupid things again, when before they didn't think such things were a problem.

> I guess to improve the respective images of both cyclists and drivers, we'd have to alter human
> nature ;-)

Probably, but we can always try open communication!
--
Trudi "Just like Pagliacci did..."--Smokey Robinson
____
Say NO to secret judging and corruption in skating -- support SkateFAIR! http://www.skatefair.org

 

[Ajames54]

On 15 May 03 16:05:24 MDT, [email protected] (Bob Bayn, Network & Computing Services) wrote:

>David Kerber <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> responded in a thread about "scofflawness" of cyclists
>vs motorists:
>> In my area, I would say that *as a percentage of the number on the road*, far more bicycylists
>> run red lights and stop signs than cars do. That gives bicyclists a bad reputation as "the rules
>> don't apply to me" kid of people. Of course, cars do lots of other stupid dangerous things, many
>> of which bicyclists do not do.
>
>I listened to the "scofflaw" cyclist complaint from a city council member a while back when we were
>requesting a declaration of bike month. My response was that there were scofflaws among both bike
>riders and car drivers but the capabilities and limitations of the respective vehicles lead to
>different violations when short term self-interest outweighed the inducements to obey the laws that
>applied to all. So we get speeding motorists (because they can) and stop sign running cyclists
>(because stopping and starting is so much extra effort), etc. And both motorists and cyclists tend
>to minimize the significance of the violations that are typical of their own group while demonizing
>the violations of the other. The council member agreed that this was probably the case.
>
>David might be right about the percentage of scofflawness being higher among cyclists, but I'd
>suggest that could be because our cultural traditions give cyclists poor guidance and our law
>enforcement doesn't help either. If we could just replace all of the mothers' admonitions to "watch
>out for cars" and health care's extraordinary emphasis on "wear your helmet" with "same roads, same
>rights, same rules" and "most hazards are in front of you, not behind you."

Well said!

"same roads, same rights, same rules" gonna save that one...

 

[Peter Cole]

"Bob Bayn, Network & Computing Services" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> David might be right about the percentage of scofflawness being higher among cyclists, but I'd
> suggest that could be because our cultural traditions give cyclists poor guidance and our law
> enforcement doesn't help either.

The number of pedestrian scofflaws is really shocking, cyclists are only the tip of the iceberg!

 

[Peter Cole]

"archer" <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> In my area, I would say that *as a percentage of the number on the road*, far more bicycylists run
> red lights and stop signs than cars do. That gives bicyclists a bad reputation as "the rules don't
> apply to me" kid of people. Of course, cars do lots of other stupid dangerous things, many of
> which bicyclists do not do.

Apparently, according to statistics, getting fat is one of the most stupid, dangerous things you can
do. As a cyclist, I try to set a good example by remaining thin. Perhaps fat cyclists should
exercise indoors, since they risk giving us all a bad reputation.