Anything special about bicycle specific grease?

[Dan Burkhart]

Hello All.
I'm sure someone will tell me this topic has been done to death, but I haven't seen it. I was just wondering if there are reasonable, cost effective alternatives to the seemingly outrageously priced little tubes of bicycle grease.
Also, is one type of grease suitable for all applications. ( Road, off road, etc.)
Dan Burkhart
Oakville Ont.

 

[[email protected]]

bicycle grease comes in very expensive containers. The actual grease is
worth a few bucks. the containers are worth another $10. Campagnolo
containers seem to be the most expensive.

Regarding the suitability, it is always better to have botn kinds. One
type of grease will work for both applications. However, you don't want
to contaminate the grease with either road or mtb particles. So, when
you put your finger in to get some grease, you need to make sure that
you wash your hands first, so idedntity particles from your bike will
not work themselves into the grease. Otherwise, when you use the grease
for the other bike, the identity particles from the bike you serviced
before will get into the bike currently being serviced. So, instead of
having a road or an mtb, your bikes will get confused and behave like
hybrids.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:46:35 +1100, Dan Burkhart
<[email protected]> may have said:

>
>Hello All.
>I'm sure someone will tell me this topic has been done to death, but I
>haven't seen it. I was just wondering if there are reasonable, cost
>effective alternatives to the seemingly outrageously priced little
>tubes of bicycle grease.

In the majority of instances, the only thing that's special is the
packaging and the price. Any automotive wheel bearing grease will
work for bike hub bearings and head bearings in the vast majority of
instances. If you have a carbon frame or steerer, follow the
component manufacturer's recommendations for lubricants which may come
in contact with those items.

>Also, is one type of grease suitable for all applications. ( Road, off
>road, etc.)

Any modern wheel bearing grease will work for all relevant types of
wheel and head bearings. Most BB bearings are now sealed, but wheel
bearing grease will work for the remaining unsealed units in that area
as well. Obviously, grease selection is irrelevant in a sealed
cartridge bearing since you won't be repacking those.

There are greases sold which claim to be waterproof. This is a claim
on a par with those seen on late-night infomercials hawking miracle
weight loss nostrums.

Not everything on a bike which requires lubrication should be greased,
obviously. Other lubricants are used where they are more appropriate.

I should probably note that I recently saw an ad for a tool which
purported to make it possible to pack a freehub with grease without
dismantling it. This strikes me as a stunningly bad idea. Old
grease, wear particles and dirt should always be cleaned out before
new grease is applied...and if you haven't opened the bearing,
inspected it for wear and contamination, claned it and determined that
it's suitatble for return to service, then you haven't done the part
of the job which gets you to the point where you would pack it with
grease.

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[Werehatrack]

On 13 Feb 2005 05:10:45 -0800, [email protected] may have said:

>bicycle grease comes in very expensive containers. The actual grease is
>worth a few bucks. the containers are worth another $10. Campagnolo
>containers seem to be the most expensive.
>
>Regarding the suitability, it is always better to have botn kinds. One
>type of grease will work for both applications. However, you don't want
>to contaminate the grease with either road or mtb particles. So, when
>you put your finger in to get some grease, you need to make sure that
>you wash your hands first, so idedntity particles from your bike will
>not work themselves into the grease. Otherwise, when you use the grease
>for the other bike, the identity particles from the bike you serviced
>before will get into the bike currently being serviced. So, instead of
>having a road or an mtb, your bikes will get confused and behave like
>hybrids.

Andres, it's still over six weeks to April First.

Besides, you forgot to mention that the real issue is that Campy and
Shimano wear particles must never be mixed because if combined and
allowed to remain in the bike, they can cause it to spontaneously
change into a Huffy. (Mixing SRAM and Campy wear particles will cause
the bike to change into a Taiwanese copy of a Peugeot.)

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[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:23:10 GMT, Bonehenge
<[email protected]> may have said:

>On 13 Feb 2005 05:10:45 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>> So, instead of
>>having a road or an mtb, your bikes will get confused and behave like
>>hybrids.
>
>You forgot the part about color coordination of grease to bike.

Yes, never use grease that doesn't match the seat and the bar tape.
If you can only match one, then choose what's most critical.

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Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
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[A Muzi]

Dan Burkhart wrote:
> I'm sure someone will tell me this topic has been done to death, but I
> haven't seen it. I was just wondering if there are reasonable, cost
> effective alternatives to the seemingly outrageously priced little
> tubes of bicycle grease.
> Also, is one type of grease suitable for all applications. ( Road, off
> road, etc.)

Nearly everyone here has his/her personal favorite grease
I'm sure. But since bikes don't have extreme load or
temperature requirements ( compared to the range grease
makers think about) just about any medium weight grease
would be OK. We like Lubriplate 130AA white lithium grease
here. The color gives us some indication of how much
contamination is in it when we revisit a bearing. We found
the 630AA to be stiffer than we liked and both Lubriplate's
105 and 107 weights a bit thin for our taste. None of those
would be 'bad' and in fact some bike brands sell Lubriplate
105 and 630AA under their own names. One employee here
swears by Lubriplate Aero, a thin very white grease. Phil
Wood repackages a fine product and any automotive parts
supplier will have a range of choices. If you're shopping
around, look for 'ball bearing applications' on the tube.
And I say tube because open top containers have a way of
attracting metal filings.

No, I don't have a specific recommendation. It's hard to
find a medium weight grease that _isn't_ acceptable for
bikes. I sure don't know of one.

And if you do buy a sample tube and you don't like it,
you're only out a couple of bucks.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Dan Burkhart wrote:
> Hello All.
> I'm sure someone will tell me this topic has been done to death, but I
> haven't seen it. I was just wondering if there are reasonable, cost
> effective alternatives to the seemingly outrageously priced little
> tubes of bicycle grease.
> Also, is one type of grease suitable for all applications. ( Road, off
> road, etc.)

The two most important factors, IMO, are that the grease is
water-resistant and doesn't cause too much drag on a lightly powered,
lightweight machine such as a bicycle. I've used standard Castrol LM
grease for years, but having bought some Park Polylube I like it better,
mainly because it's clean and easy to squeeze into races if you buy the
"toothpaste tube" container. It's nearly as cheap as the Castrol stuff
and is specifcally recommended for ball bearings, whereas the Castrol
stuff would normally go in car hubs with large roller bearings (I've
also used it for that purpose).

Some people use boat trailer wheel-bearing grease, which is designed for
the occasional submersion in salt water. It might be a bit thick for
racing, but MTBers should consider it.

 

[LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m]

Werehatrack wrote:

> There are greases sold which claim to be waterproof.
> This is a claim on a par with those seen on late-night
> infomercials hawking miracle weight loss nostrums.

Boaters have been using waterproof stern-tube greases for a very long
time without complaint. They may not be waterproof forever, but they can
and routinely do last an entire boating season without leakage.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

 

[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:05:46 -0800, LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0
m <[email protected]> may have said:

>Werehatrack wrote:
>
>> There are greases sold which claim to be waterproof.
>> This is a claim on a par with those seen on late-night
>> infomercials hawking miracle weight loss nostrums.
>
>Boaters have been using waterproof stern-tube greases for a very long
>time without complaint.

They also use a shaft seal with both interior and exterior lips,
unless the shaft uses one of the old-style packings, unless things
have changed since I last looked. (Which is possible, as I view boats
as something to avoid needing to know much about.)

>They may not be waterproof forever, but they can
>and routinely do last an entire boating season without leakage.

You won't find those sold as wheel bearing grease, though, and they
aren't very good for that application. The stuff sold as waterproof
boat trailer wheel bearing grease is about as waterproof as my socks.
If you sink the hub, you'd better clean and repack.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
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[Tim McNamara]

Dan Burkhart <[email protected]>
writes:

> I'm sure someone will tell me this topic has been done to death, but
> I haven't seen it. I was just wondering if there are reasonable,
> cost effective alternatives to the seemingly outrageously priced
> little tubes of bicycle grease.

Lots.

> Also, is one type of grease suitable for all applications. ( Road,
> off road, etc.)

Just about any mechanical (non-cooking) grease will do. I tend to
stay away from the white greases, I think they tend to break down in
wet conditions faster but I have no actual proof of this and could be
all wrong. I use waterproof marine grease, which is kind of a
greenish brown color. I also have a Phil Wood zerk gun and multiple
filler tubes of Phil grease that I got for just about free, which is
very convenient.

I do remember a story by Jobst Brandt of using suntan cream to grease
the bearings in a hub while on tour. Perhaps not an optimal solution,
but necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[Tim McNamara]

Werehatrack <[email protected]> writes:

> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:23:10 GMT, Bonehenge
> <[email protected]> may have said:
>
>>On 13 Feb 2005 05:10:45 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So, instead of having a road or an mtb, your bikes will get
>>>confused and behave like hybrids.
>>
>>You forgot the part about color coordination of grease to bike.
>
> Yes, never use grease that doesn't match the seat and the bar tape.
> If you can only match one, then choose what's most critical.'

Fabrizzio lives!

 

[Joshua Putnam]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

> Obviously, grease selection is irrelevant in a sealed
> cartridge bearing since you won't be repacking those.

For those who ride a lot in the rain, repacking sealed cartridge bearings
can be a good idea, and it isn't hard to do if they're rubber lip seals,
just use a fine needle tip on your grease gun to get under the lip and
regrease.

--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html>

 

[Joshua Putnam]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

> I should probably note that I recently saw an ad for a tool which
> purported to make it possible to pack a freehub with grease without
> dismantling it. This strikes me as a stunningly bad idea. Old
> grease, wear particles and dirt should always be cleaned out before
> new grease is applied...and if you haven't opened the bearing,
> inspected it for wear and contamination, claned it and determined that
> it's suitatble for return to service, then you haven't done the part
> of the job which gets you to the point where you would pack it with
> grease.

Freewheel bearings are relatively low-precision, since they're only in
use when not under load. Back when shops still cleaned and relubricated
freewheels, most didn't disassemble the freewheel unless there was some
clear reason to do so. Dip the freewheel in solvent and spin it, rinse
with solvent, dribble in oil around the lip and spin.

The real problem with freewheel greasers is that many greases are too
thick to allow full, rapid engagement of freewheel pawls, so you either
get freewheeling both directions, or you get partially-engaged pawls that
wear out faster.

Lightweight grease applied in moderation works well for most freewheels
in my experience. NLGI 0 or 1, not enough to fill the voids inside the
freewheel, just enough to provide continuing lubrication.

--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html>

 

[A Muzi]

> Werehatrack wrote:
>> There are greases sold which claim to be waterproof.
>> This is a claim on a par with those seen on late-night
>> infomercials hawking miracle weight loss nostrums.

LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m wrote:
> Boaters have been using waterproof stern-tube greases for a very long
> time without complaint. They may not be waterproof forever, but they can
> and routinely do last an entire boating season without leakage.

Uh, what's an example of a NOT-waterproof grease?
Did I miss something here?

Water will make an emulsion with any grease in our bearing
applications. The brand of grease is irrelevant to that.

But all greases are 'waterproof' in some sense - that is
true but trite to our problem.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Dan Burkhart]

bicycle grease comes in very expensive containers. The actual grease is
worth a few bucks. the containers are worth another $10. Campagnolo
containers seem to be the most expensive.

Regarding the suitability, it is always better to have botn kinds. One
type of grease will work for both applications. However, you don't want
to contaminate the grease with either road or mtb particles. So, when
you put your finger in to get some grease, you need to make sure that
you wash your hands first, so idedntity particles from your bike will
not work themselves into the grease. Otherwise, when you use the grease
for the other bike, the identity particles from the bike you serviced
before will get into the bike currently being serviced. So, instead of
having a road or an mtb, your bikes will get confused and behave like
hybrids.

Or, my mtb might develop an attitude and become excessively style concious.
But seriously, thanks much to all who responded.
Dan

 

[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:00:30 -0600, A Muzi <[email protected]> may
have said:

>> Werehatrack wrote:
>>> There are greases sold which claim to be waterproof.
>>> This is a claim on a par with those seen on late-night
>>> infomercials hawking miracle weight loss nostrums.
>
>LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m wrote:
>> Boaters have been using waterproof stern-tube greases for a very long
>> time without complaint. They may not be waterproof forever, but they can
>> and routinely do last an entire boating season without leakage.
>
>Uh, what's an example of a NOT-waterproof grease?
>Did I miss something here?
>
>Water will make an emulsion with any grease in our bearing
>applications. The brand of grease is irrelevant to that.
>
>But all greases are 'waterproof' in some sense - that is
>true but trite to our problem.

The misconception is that grease being "waterproof" will protect the
bearing surface from its effects. In a sleeve bearing, some such
greases can do that for a while. In a ball bearing, it doesn't work.
Some emulsify faster and easier than others, but none will keep water
from destroying a ball or roller bearing into which water has
intruded.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:53:53 -0800, Joshua Putnam <[email protected]> may
have said:

>The real problem with freewheel greasers is that many greases are too
>thick to allow full, rapid engagement of freewheel pawls, so you either
>get freewheeling both directions, or you get partially-engaged pawls that
>wear out faster.

Yup. So a gadget that's liable to pack the whole cavity with grease
is a really bad idea. It looked like the device was just supposed to
pack the hub bearing and not the freewheel mechanism, but in doing so
it would almost certainly have pushed grease in where it was
inappropriate in the process...as well as doing the wrong thing with
the wheel bearings.

>Lightweight grease applied in moderation works well for most freewheels
>in my experience. NLGI 0 or 1, not enough to fill the voids inside the
>freewheel, just enough to provide continuing lubrication.

Freewheels also typically collect little internal dirt, wear, and
accumulated crud, so a solvent wash-through followed by judicious
oiling works just fine. I have, on occasion, dismantled one to
directly clean the inside and replace bearing balls on a sticky or
noisy unit that would have been difficult or expensive to replace,
with good results in every case so far, but it's not the kind of thing
that I get up in the morning and decide to spend the day at.

--
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Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
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[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:59:29 -0800, LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0
m <[email protected]> may have said:

>The fact is that waterproof grease does exist,
>has existed for a long time, and works much better than what you say.

Tell you what. Pack your wheel bearings with that grease, ride it in
conditions where water intrusion into the bearings will occur, and let
us know how it works when you've accumulated some miles on it. If
it's as good for this purpose as you seem to be implying, I'm sure
there are lots of folks here who'd like to know.

My experience to date with waterproof greases (petroleum, vegetable
and synthetic based, using a variety of emulsifiers and soaps
including marine formulations) has been that they will not prevent a
contaminated ball or roller bearing from failing due to corrosion. If
there is one that will, it would be a positive benefit to
know...assuming that the grease will also provide appropriate
lubricating qualities in the application.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>Hello All.
>I'm sure someone will tell me this topic has been done to death, but I
>haven't seen it. I was just wondering if there are reasonable, cost
>effective alternatives to the seemingly outrageously priced little
>tubes of bicycle grease.
>Also, is one type of grease suitable for all applications. ( Road, off
>road, etc.)

Any decent automotice grease will be cheaper and work just as well. If
ride in wet weahter often, you spend the extra bucks and get marine
grade grease which is waterproof. It will still be many times cheaper
than 'bike' grease.
------------
Alex

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>Yes, never use grease that doesn't match the seat and the bar tape.
>If you can only match one, then choose what's most critical.

The obvious answer is the seat. Why? Because when you get the grease on
your hands, you will probably be wiping them on your shorts which will
be closer to your seat than to the bars.
-----------------
Alex