Only if you care about your resultslorrod said:What are your thoughts about doing intervals for training in order to race? For instance, would you say they are absolutely positively necessary.......or can you get by without doing them?
No, and yes. No, if you want to plod along as you've always done, and yes if you want to improve. Tysonlorrod said:What are your thoughts about doing intervals for training in order to race? For instance, would you say they are absolutely positively necessary.......or can you get by without doing them?
Nope, not every ride but yes for every "training" ride. I don't consider on the bike rest days to be training, more like a form of recovery to get me ready for training. I also do some social rides with my wife or non racing friends. Those don't require any specific goals, time durations or intensities beyond enjoying the day. And once in a while I do a long ride fairly fast like an impromptu 100 miler with a team mate. On rides like that I just pay attention to pace and fueling but I don't break it into blocks or intervals. I guess those are training of a sort in terms of getting used to being in the saddle for longer periods and encouraging my muscles to store glycogen but they don't form the core of my training and they're pretty few and far between(I've only done one this year and I'm on week 36 of steady training)...... you state that you start every training ride with something like interval training in mind. But, you don't do some type of intervals for every ride, do you?
Back in the day, it use to be that you only did intervals once...or maybe twice......per week. Do you think, with the different variations of interval definitions now, it's okay to do them up to 4 or 5 days per week?daveryanwyoming said:Nope, not every ride but yes for every "training" ride. I don't consider on the bike rest days to be training, more like a form of recovery to get me ready for training. I also do some social rides with my wife or non racing friends. Those don't require any specific goals, time durations or intensities beyond enjoying the day. And once in a while I do a long ride fairly fast like an impromptu 100 miler with a team mate. On rides like that I just pay attention to pace and fueling but I don't break it into blocks or intervals. I guess those are training of a sort in terms of getting used to being in the saddle for longer periods and encouraging my muscles to store glycogen but they don't form the core of my training and they're pretty few and far between(I've only done one this year and I'm on week 36 of steady training).
But my basic week including pre-race minitapers involves some goal on every ride. A typical week this time of year might be:
M - rest (on or off bike depending on energy and available time)
T am L7 sprints, pm L5 VO2 max
W L4 3x20 minutes
Th L3/SST 2-3 hour ride (I like to do 45 to hour plus high L3 blocks)
Fr. rest(on or off bike)
Sat Race or L4 work (or social ride if I'm tapering, tired or just feel like it)
Sun Race or Tempo work(same note as above)
Each of those has a goal and the goals imply both intensity and duration for the efforts. I don't get on the bike just go riding and call it training. Leaving the house every day with a plan and a goal is the single biggest change I've made to training after 25 years of cycling and it has paid off with less time on the bike, much better recovery and much better race results. Sometime the plan has to be changed when the legs just aren't recovered from a previous effort but then I just drop intensity a notch and work the next level down. If I can't even do that I just go home and get back on track the next day.
-Dave
Hi, sprints are sprints, and intervals are intervals. 10 to 20 seconds maximum efforts are sprints... why complicate things...daveryanwyoming said:And if you want to contest sprints then some 10 to 20 second L7 neuromuscular "intervals" are pretty important. Maybe those don't sound like intervals to you,
Nothing complicated. It's interval when those 20s sprints are repeated over and over.youhaditcoming said:Hi, sprints are sprints, and intervals are intervals. 10 to 20 seconds maximum efforts are sprints... why complicate things...
Folks seem awfully hung up on the definition of the word "interval" I just see it as any time you make some effort for a minimum or preset time at a particular intensity, rest and then do it again. That was the point of my post. No, I don't go out saying I'm doing 15 second L7 intervals today, I just go sprinting but it's still a form of interval work. The OP asked whether intervals are necessary for race success, the answer depends on how you define the term.youhaditcoming said:Hi, sprints are sprints, and intervals are intervals. 10 to 20 seconds maximum efforts are sprints... why complicate things...
Not entirely accurate. e.g., 20 min. intervals are unlike most any road race unless you're solo off the front. What I've learned from this forum is that the idea is to prepare your body for the rigors of racing, not necessarily to simulate it. And doing the right intervals does that most efficiently.Ergoman said:Road racing is a series of intense efforts with periods of rest interspersed. Intervals (no matter how they're defined) come closest to simulating road racing. If you plan to enter catagorized races, either do intervals as preparation or plan to get dropped a lot.
Animator said:Not entirely accurate. e.g., 20 intervals are unlike most any road race unless you're solo off the front. SNIP
Is this a trick question? I just outlined a typical weekly schedule where I do just that, yeah I guess it's o,k, to do intervals 4 or 5 days a week based on the way I define the term.lorrod said:...Do you think, with the different variations of interval definitions now, it's okay to do them up to 4 or 5 days per week?...
Yep, back in the day I paid some highly respected coaches who advised me to follow schedules such as:Back in the day, it use to be that you only did intervals once...or maybe twice......per week.
Hi Dave - No no, no trick question. I'm trying to overcome my retrogrouch fears of consistent interval training for racing. You know, the whole "Be careful when you do intervals or you're gonna overtrain!" I really appreciate all of the advice given here. I have to admit, I don't do intervals.....and my results pretty much show it(they suck!). So, thought I would ask the question to the group to see what they thought about it. Thank you for all of the advice - it's extremely helpful.daveryanwyoming said:Is this a trick question? I just outlined a typical weekly schedule where I do just that, yeah I guess it's o,k, to do intervals 4 or 5 days a week based on the way I define the term.
Yep, back in the day I paid some highly respected coaches who advised me to follow schedules such as:
M-rest
T- Sprint
W- Long ride
Th - intervals
Fr - easy
Sat. Long ride or race
Sun. Long ride or race
I followed schedule's like this for years, sometimes with HR limits thrown into the mix, sometimes with specific drills like "switch between your big and small ring every 5 minutes on your long ride regardless of terrain". But very rarely with any meaningful focus for the rides other than "long"
That's part of the reason I'm strongly advocating a specific training goal at a specific intensity for each training ride. I guess I ruffled some feathers with the way I define intervals, that's cool call 'em what you want but I'm over heading out to train just to go "long" or just to "get miles" without a defined physiological goal.
Similarly I like thinking in terms of intervals because it clearly differentiates a targeted training ride from a random group or solo ride with a bit of this and a bit of that. Even back in the day I noticed the most sucessful local riders tended to train alone, now that I use a PM and have a better understanding of the need to train specific systems in specific ways I'm also going out alone and working what I need to work at the level that fits my abilities. And even though I'm considerably older I'm going faster than ever before.
I think Ergoman and Animator and I are basically saying the same things in different ways. You need to train to the demands of your activities and personally I think targeted, repeated training blocks are the best way to accomplish that task. I also agree with Animator's point that given a lot of time it's possible to get there without structure but almost everyone is time and recovery limited so IMO focused workouts are a more reliable and quicker path.
-Dave
That advice is still valid if you define intervals as short anaerobic or even high end VO2 Max efforts. A daily diet of minute long max effort bursts can certainly lead to overtraining. If you use a more general definition of blocked, repeated training at appropriate intensities then no, they will not necessarily lead to burnout.lorrod said:..... I'm trying to overcome my retrogrouch fears of consistent interval training for racing. You know, the whole "Be careful when you do intervals or you're gonna overtrain!" ...
lorrod said:For instance, would you say they are absolutely positively necessary.......or can you get by without doing them?
But for the most part, when it comes to racing, intervals are probably recommended, yes?ric_stern/RST said:No, they're not *absolutely* necessary. But whether that's a good or bad approach is a different question
ric
lorrod said:But for the most part, when it comes to racing, intervals are probably recommended, yes?
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