Are we there yet?

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by CalicoCat, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    bg->To repeat the others, I am glad you are ok. I guess it is the New Yorker in me but I could not deal with that. Sorry no one is that dumb and if they are that dumb someone needs to teach them a lesson. You are lucky you did not have a more serious injury. Like swampy said do not worry about the bike as trust me you do not want a long term issue. Once on a bike tour to Boston a couple kids in a van pulled up next to me and start to slow down and ride along side. I looked over and they looked like they were going to start trouble. Immediately stopped, got off the bike and was ready for action if need be. They just kept going.

    Here in NYC you can only train in the early morning where they close off CP and you are suppose to have all the road to yourself and runners can use the entire bike lane which is why you have to be there by 530 latest as they open to cars by about ~730. Otherwise especially weekends need to go up to 9w or Long Island 25a. But still the earlier you train the better. Night rides can get hairy around here also cause the night is much nicer than the cold early morning so you have many more folks training.

    BTW you nailed it on the tape. I can not believe never thought about it but it is there for cables not to rub, I guess the more expensive the bike, the more they think of these details.

    Training wise, all going as planned but I have really noticed my weak spot. Basically it is pushing the biggest gear on my bike. If I take it down I do not struggle as much with the session. It is trying to do my L4/SST in the biggest gear. Yesterday was not so bad the workout but today getting in the 2nd 30 minutes forced me 10 minutes in to drop it a gear. Will have to get that type of conditioning back but if I train too often in that big gear will just set up failure often.

    -js
     


  2. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, 20+ on bike paths while passing isn't a good idea and the responsibility is on the passing vehicle to do so safely. I'm glad it worked out, but I lost a good friend to a situation like that a few years back as a cyclist took him down from behind and cracked his skull open on a recreational bike path. http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=729

    Recently a pedestrian here in Seattle was killed the same way. http://blog.cascade.org/2010/04/tragedy-in-renton-what-can-we-learn/ Like it or not on the bike path we're in the same position relative to slower moving users as cars are to us on the roads and just like we can move off the shoulder without a lot of warning to avoid road hazards, pedestrians can move in ways we didn't expect. Good thing the damage wasn't more serious.

    Sorry, but multi-use bike paths are no place to train hard when there's other folks around. I'm glad everyone is all right.

    -Dave
     
  3. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Just putting it the biggest gear for riding in a big gears sake is the wrong way to go about things. Think of it like driving a car. Stuffing it in 5th (or 6th should your car be so equipped) to drive everywhere isn't what you'd do... likewise on a bike it isn't the best.

    Figure out what cadence you're most efficient at for given effort and ride at somewhere close to that during training. The cadence should remain similar but the gear will vary based upon speed. The only time that cadence should differ would be if you did L4 on a hill rather than L4 on the flat or on the trainer.

    As an example, back in 2009 when I did pretty much all my training on PowerCranks, which until you're 100% comfortable and really fit and train fairly fresh, I rarely had the bike in top gear even when 'cruising' at ~320watts. Sure, I was pedalling a little slower than I would have done on regular cranks but nothing that would have required me to use 50x11 unless there was a fair tailwind. Likewise on the ~5 minute Monod test at around 380 to 390 watts, I'd more likely be in the 13 or possibly 12 and only then because the power/speed/rpm required it too be there rather than me deciding it had to be there.

    I'd occaisonally do short sessions in a bigger gear but that'd be for something out of the norm, like getting the feel for a new position or doing short interval work and doing jumps from a big gear.
     
  4. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    swampy->But is this the case on the CT also? I understand outdoors but on the CT I thought most folks train in the biggest gear? I was prefer my 50x12 or 13 compared to the 11. Something about that 1 less tooth that kills me!

    -js
     
  5. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Assuming you're riding the CT in ergo mode then turning the bigger gear just means a higher wheel speed for the same cadence and the CT will adjust its braking force to control power. In that case big gears are your friend as high wheel speed helps compensate for the lack of trainer inertia. If you're riding the CT in fixed resistance mode or riding the programmed courses then it's like riding outdoors and you should use your gears as you would outside but the lack of inertia can be a bummer for the CT's steeper simulated grades.

    -Dave
     
  6. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    dave->That is what I thought but for some reason pushing those bigger gears in ergo mode is tougher. I thought it did not make sense as the machine should compensate for the bigger gear with less resistance but I just notice that turning the bigger gear is tougher for me than a slightly smaller gear given the same wattage. I need to do more testing as I could have just had a bad day today but this seems to be a trend in the biggest gear.

    -js
     
  7. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, not sure what's going on there. Your CT should be decreasing the load as the wheel spins up faster but the big point is that in ergo mode you want reasonably high wheel speeds so go with the 12 or 13 if it feels better than a lower gear. Outside or non-ergo riding is a different story.

    -Dave
     
  8. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Thanks guys, I too hope that I am good to go by Saturday, it is only wednesday and my fingers are crossed.

    Well, I felt as good as could be expected this morning, hit the trainer for 2x20 intervals then off to work. I got out of a meeting around 12 and my neck really started to stiffen up and feel really strange and progressively got worse. I am taking this evening off of training and have an appointment with the doctor tomorrow to make sure I did not break my neck or anything crazy like that, I did come down right on the top of my head. This sucks!!
     
  9. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    You probably didn't break anything - if you had it'd be pretty evident straight away.

    It sounds like a classic case of everything slowly getting very stiff and sore the day or so after being decked. Sorry to say but it'll likely get worse before it gets better.

    As it's so close to your event I'd seriously thing about not riding for the remainder of the week - you won't lose any fitness. I'd consider lots of very gentle stretching, the helping hands of a good sports physio, some painkillers and anti inflamitories, plenty of fluids and as much rest/downtime/sleep as you can muster.

    Trying to eek out another training session or two in this condition is probably the worst thing to do. Personally, I'd leave it until Friday to hop out on the bike for a ride but bear in mind that you'll probably be hating it for the first 30 minutes. If after that you're in pain and show no signs of losening up you'll have to seriously ask yourself if whatever you're doing on Saturday is really worth it.
     
  10. coneofsilence

    coneofsilence Member

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    +1. You are seeing delayed effects from your accident. Everyone is different, some people see it immediately. Others, it can take a week.
    It took 3 days for me to show signs of whip lash after a car rollover at Christmas, the worst time of year to get medical assistance from chiropracters etc. but to ease my pain, i used painkillers, stretching, massage and a good hot bath or hot tub.
     
  11. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    But a hot bath and extensive road rash on the back? That'd be a big NO!

    But if you're the type that thinks that inserting red hot skewers underneath your skin is a great idea, then soak away.
     
  12. coneofsilence

    coneofsilence Member

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    Theres nothing wrong with a salt bath. Keeps the wound clean. I'd probably stay clear of the hot tub as they aren't too sanitary but keeping wounds clean and moist and covered is the quickest way for them to heal.
     
  13. CalicoCat

    CalicoCat Member

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    hmmm, I am never in my biggest gear on the CT. Now, granted, I usually use the CT in multi-rider mode as opposed to erg mode. However, I always I pick a gear combination that allows me to maintain my normal happy cadence with the system recording 20-24mph.
     
  14. CalicoCat

    CalicoCat Member

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    Training has been going really well. I feel great and totally ready for the racing season to start in a few weeks!!!!
    ... so excited . . .
     
  15. Manweiser

    Manweiser New Member

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    Thought this pic of the day from bikerumor.com is fairly applicable to bike lane, multi-use path, etc discussions...

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/03/10/bikerumor-pic-of-the-day-this-is-a-bike-lane/
     
  16. jpr95

    jpr95 Active Member

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    Wow. Blue road would drive me batty.

    Jason
     
  17. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    cc,dave->I figured it out but ofcourse I had to figure it out the hard way. Today got in the trainer and thought let me take 5 extra minutes to make sure all the cables and tension is just right and set correctly. I sometimes do not give it enough time which is silly to wake up at 5am and not give 5 extra minutes to make sure the bike is set up right. So I started and it seemed perfect the PT and the CT were in line and even when I went nto my highest gear the CT let up just the right amount to maintain the watts.

    About 20 minutes into my 60 minute interval today the power started to creep up. I wanted to do 200~210 for 60 minutes as 85-90% of ftp. It was at 210, than a bit later 215, 220 till I am grinding out 250! I get really pissed and jump on it. The bike flies off the stand and luckily I have furniture next to me which I grab and do not fall with the bike. Also I was fast enough to get the pedal out quickly before the bike fell. Anyway I look down and remember I was using a different quick release skewer (right word) than I usually do as I took the bike out last weekend and never put back the old one. Obviously as you put more pressure on it, it become loose and the wheel begins to slide out which was screwing up the machine. It is also beat up my back as I was bouncing a bit so I was more sore than usual!

    Well problem solved but how annoying!!

    bg->Really better to take off now and fight another day. I am sure anyway your doc will say the same. No doctor is going to tell you after the fall you had and the soreness you have to go and race this weekend. He will say atleast 2 weeks off the bike and some meds. Enjoy the time as it really is not a bad thing to get away from the grind every so often. There are times it really starts to feel like a job and that is not good.

    -js
     
  18. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Things are starting to feel a bit better today, I was able to get on the bike for an hour this morning, it seems that after a good night sleep I don't feel to bad. I have great family doctor who actually specializes in sports medicine and has worked with some pretty great athletes. He took a look at me, took some x-rays of my neck and everything came back good, his advice was obviously rest up and don't over do it, but thought that there was no medical reason I could not race. So I think I will hop on the trainer in the morning for an hour, maybe do some 30x30 intervals like CC advised, and then pack my bike up and head off to the race (I have to stay over night). All and all this week has sucked, hopefully things will go a bit better on Saturday/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif. It drives me nuts that my training when to hell this weekend, I guess I will just hit it hard next week.
     
  19. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    It's all well and good talking about salt baths being ace for wounds but can you recall how much fun it is getting in a nice hot bath to relax aching muscles when most of you back and legs are devoid of the top layer of skin? I remember what it's like and I remember that getting the end of my little finger stitched back on was much less painful. Heck crashing into a house at speed hurt less. You must have been on better drugs that I got from the English NHS. I have some fantastic stuff for the cracked rib I'm getting over. Vicoden and ibuprofen the size of hotdogs. Pain? What pain!
     
  20. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Did I mention that I really like the e-Motion rollers? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


    Previously my CTL kind of stalled out because I was struggling to add more stress load during the week and I was also struggling to stay on the trainer for extended periods of time. During the week I do not have time to travel after work to get to a safe outdoor training location so I plopped down the cash (with my wife's blessing/approval) on the rollers with hope that it would be a good investment to help boost my training time and also reduce some driving (also timely since gas is rising quickly). I also wanted to take my Sunday outdoor 2x60 effort and put that effort indoor where it is a little safer and even more consistent than the environmental obstacles.

    I am now training outdoors just once a week and as the weather improves those will be long endurance rides. I actually do not mind the thought of training indoors now with the rollers. Perhaps not for everyone, but I am liking it so far. I am finally approaching the 10 hour weekly training mark if I can get in that long outdoor ride on Saturday and combined with the enhanced indoor training time. My indoor efforts start after a 10 minute warm up and L4 work on the trainer for 2x20's and then I swap over to the rollers and finish the time with a continous L3 effort. When I did this last night my legs were extremely sore, but as time went things improved and toward the end I was holding some good numbers for me. I am still holding back a little trying to control the rate of progression so as not to burn out in the coming weeks and months. As a recreational cyclists I am in no hurry and have plenty of time to improve. (years hopefully)

    Things are back on the upswing again as viewed in WKO and though the rollers were a long-term investment I am seeing the payoff much more quickly than I expected. There are some crazy things going with using the rollers and kind of hard to express with writing, but there are a few things I have noticed. One my hips and hamstrings seem to be more involved (in a good way) with the rollers compared to the trainer. Thank goodness for the bumper rollers that keep me upright. I still hit one of those now and then when my focus drifts and I still cannot get down to the aerobars yet and stay stabile enough. When I get there I cannot keep my knees in to the top tube and they are wildly going outward trying to keep my balance, but I suppose that will come in time.

    When I get on the trainer there seems to be a little more finesse now than previously. I have always been a big time masher with a slower cadence and never really cared much about fine tuning the pedal stroke and still do not care to be honest, but something good is happening and I will gladly accept it. This is no doubt enhancing the finesse and improving my cadence quickly, which I imagine will help conserve energy out on the road and when climbing.

    Cool stuff in my world at the moment.
    A little tired from the increased training time and an 80 mile route planned for tomorrow so that might be interesting especially with the winds in the forecast.
     
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