Are we there yet?

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by CalicoCat, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,257
    Likes Received:
    27
    Removed by me
     


  2. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    4
    dave/felt->Yeah I understand that running a red light should get a ticket but NYC is very different than other towns in that messengers have pretty much set the standard and being old school messenger the only rule was just not to get killed. I do not see tickets being given to cabs or even pedestrians for lets say when a cab cuts me off and nearly takes off my head or when the light is green but no cars so people keep[ crossing the street even though they can clearly see me coming. THE RULES NEED TO GO BOTH WAYS! HOW BOUT PROTECTING MY RIGHTS! I mean how bout the runners who run in the bike lane! Give them a ticket for using my area!

    The bigger issue is also where to train. Unless I head up to 9W which is impossible on a weekday, no where. I believe they will not stop bikes at lets say 4-7am. I will try soon enough. Sorry for venting guys and do not take it personal. Honestly when I did my tours from NYC to Boston or Baltimore it made alot more sense to stop as cars go faster and larger roads. But it seems they are only doing this in CP not outside the park.

    But on the training front had an amazing day till I screwed up on the CT. I did 2 x 20 at 230 and than I hear rattling as something came loose. I get off and tighten it and ready to do my third and than the CT just goes nutty and no more resistance on the wheel. I had to completely get off and reset everything. I ditched it as already close to 930 and got to get ready for work. I guess just one of those couple of days but I see more light here in the training tunnel. It would seem I am going to be living here soon on this machine!!!!

    -js

    BTW, want to read something really screwed up that happen recently here in NYC with cops and bikes.

    http://twitpic.com/4h0cqn
     
  3. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,257
    Likes Received:
    27
    js, just so you know I empathize with your situation. I am by far no saint and a frequent violator out on the back roads and if it looks clear on the urban bike path. Count me as guilty.
    Like you I do what I can to keep my training effort momentum going.

    I hope you can find a way to enjoy training outside.

    Apart from all of this I wonder if it has more to do with what is going on like around the Atlanta area. It is well known that the past year cops are ticketing more to raise revenue for cities and counties that are broke from mismanaging tax money and overspending on stupid pet projects. They are cutting teachers, firemen, and police so raising money to keep their jobs seems like the right ticket...pardon the pun. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
     
  4. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    According to PMC, I'm starting to dig myself into a bit of a training hole.

    According to my legs, I must have picked this up last week on eBay.
    [​IMG]

    Life is good.
     
  5. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    4
    felt->Thanks. And that is exactly what the bus driver told me that the city is just desperate for cash. btw, I just finished your post on genetics and yes I agree and see time and time again that some people just seem to be gifted in one particular endeavor but I also believe that through natural selection our traits/genes that did make it to the next generations are probably not that bad either. I do believe genetics plays a role when looking at the top say 10% in a sport but I do think that with enough hardcore 100% devotion we can go much further than even we believe we can.

    swampy->Funny I live between 2nd/3rd and if that is what I think it is, screwed up all of 2nd avenue. It is totally a mess where I live now cause of it. Lets see now they are saying by 2014 it will be done. At this point my grand-kids will use it!

    -js
     
  6. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    JS,

    That's the tunnel boring machine that was used on the Channel Tunnel (between England and France) project. I'm currently using it to dig my TSB hole... ;) It's being rotated with PowerCranks and lubricated by lots of sweat.
     
  7. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    4
    swampy->I believe we have a similar one here in NYC to build the 2nd avenue subway which was started when I was a kid I think. NYC speed!!

    Uh Oh PowerCranks! Let the games begin.
     
  8. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,857
    Likes Received:
    97
    No doubt that's true but I agree with js, it differentiates the top athletes and of course it sure helps the talented newcomers that quickly ride at higher levels than the rest but overall it can be a real trap to start thinking too much about genetics and talent wrt your competition. We're all dealt different hands and we try to play them as well as we can but I've seen way too many riders throw in the towel by attributing too much to genetics and not realizing their own potential. I suspect your personal training time wall at around 10 hours per week would change more with a different set of life obligations and perhaps less time in the gym than it would with different parents. How far you progressed if you could regularly do 15 hours per week of training and what your FTP might look like is much more closely tied to your genetics than the simple ability to sustain a certain number of training hours with reasonable recovery.

    Sure every season a talented newcomer like the guy you mentioned shows up. He or she rapidly moves through the categories but if they stick with it long enough (and many don't) they reach the level where they're racing against folks of similar genetics. Sure at the top levels there are a few standouts who've invested a ton of time and effort to leverage their genetic gifts but the vast majority of the pro peloton is made up of riders that are all at similar levels and can't simply ride away from one another at will each with their own strengths and weaknesses based on both genetics and years of specialized training.

    But take it down to the amateur ranks, especially the lower to mid ranks and stellar genetics has more to do with how quickly someone becomes say a competent Cat 4, Cat 3 or Cat 2 than it does with whether they can be competitive within their group over the long term. IOW, that Cat 4 probably will probably upgrade very quickly but sooner or later he'll hit his own personal peter principle and he'll have to work hard to stay competitive at that higher level. Either that or he'll get frustrated and drop the sport which happens a lot to folks that rise quickly, come to expect easy wins and then run into the wall when racing becomes as hard for them as it is for many lower category riders without so much 'talent'. Meanwhile some riders with less genetic advantage are plugging away and racing among folks of similar natural ability. Those that stick to it continue to make progress, those that get frustrated by not doing as well as the rising stars often write it off to natural talent, lose their motivation as they can't pick new parents and stagnate, go backwards or quit altogether.

    IOW, although it's interesting to note that some folks rise through the ranks more quickly or seem destined for local stardom, too much focus on the genetics part can be a major distraction and keep folks from achieving their own potential. Luckily racing is categorized and club riders can usually find a well matched club to ride with so as frustrating as it is to see a new comer achieve near instant success it tends to self correct quickly as they advance and we get back to riding as well as we can at the level we ride.

    Sure, genetics is important and for those hoping to make it to the top of the sport it's essential. But I'd guess very few Cat 3, 4 or 5 riders are anywhere near their genetic potential and would do better to focus on their own training and skills development than to spend time wishing they'd been dealt a different set of genes.

    -Dave
     
  9. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    LOL @ the powercranks reference.

    At this point it's still a curiosity.

    I have data from the PT from the end of 2008 on regular cranks, all my 09 training was on PC's, nearly all of '10 was on regular cranks and '11 is going to be on PC's. The training is pretty much the same - so I want to see if this years power metrics end up about the same as '09 - or better.

    Apart from 1 minute power, 09 (on PCs) was way ahead of 08 and 10 in terms of 5min, 20min, 1 and 2 hour power and the 1 minute mark was probably only better last year because I actually did a few crits and whole whopping 2 weeks of 2 and 1 minute intervals...

    I was kind of disapointed with the training last year and if it wasn't for getting a shiny new bike that was so much fun to ride then I doubt I would have completed the entire year on regular cranks.

    But I'm having fun and if this year mirrors 09 then chances are I'll be riding these things for life and I'll never have a sub 20lb bike to train on again. LOL
     
  10. gman0482

    gman0482 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    17
    I can smell the weather coming !! When April comes around, I start to get a trainer version of cabin fever. I love indoor training, but when the weather starts to show signs of life, I get impatient. This week is the first week that temps will hit over 60*F, but with rain as usual.

    Also finally the street sweepers are going around and sweeping the huge piles of sand from the sides of the street. My club did the annual pot hole inspection ride this week. Some (most) of the roads we usually ride got ripped up by plows. Massachusetts is great !!

    It'd be nice to ride in California..... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif
     
  11. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,257
    Likes Received:
    27
    You could join us this Saturday. 80's and sun. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
    http://ridewithgps.com/routes/345566

    Come on down
     
  12. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    Are you sure that the wind just hasn't died down and that the smell of cabin fevered armpits? :p

    It is nice riding in California - for the most part... apart from the fact that the wife just called to let me know that there's been a thunder storm hanging over town for the past couple of hours. Should make the drive home interesting when I hit that rain (Californian drivers + rain = great retardation and bent cars) and could make tonights ~2hr ride a positively electrifiying experience.
     
  13. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    That looks "lumpy".
     
  14. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,257
    Likes Received:
    27
    I don't have a great track record for lumpy courses. I predict that I will be in a deep coma like sleep Saturday afternoon.
     
  15. Manweiser

    Manweiser New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've made it out a couple times down here in Connecticut, and I could have sworn I was riding cobbles. This year's winter wreaked havoc on the roads. I'm hoping to go riding Saturday and Sunday since its looks like its going to be 50s/60s. I have a new Fizik Antares Versus saddle to break in. So much more comfortable than the stock Prologo saddle.

    SPRING IS HERE!

     
  16. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    Yup - Gman jinxed the weather. Drove through this little beauty on the way home...

    http://www.dailyrepublic.com/story.php?id=701.0


    Could do with some California weather... Pah!

    :p

    :)
     
  17. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,257
    Likes Received:
    27
    It has been a number of weeks now since I purchased the e-Motion rollers and as of last night I am finally getting to the point of getting into the appropriate power range for training. I am not sure why it has taken me so long and by outward appearance it looked as if I was stabile enough, but I just could not bring my body to the point of cooperation of submission to the mind's desire. I even feel fairly confident with getting down and up from the aerobars without too much wavering. Up until last night I seemed to struggle with just holding 160 watts. The other thing seemed that my hips and hamstrings seemed to be more involved on the rollers than in comparison to the road or the trainer. Not sure why since it is the same bike(s) I always use. Even though I my sustained power output on the rollers was low other things were beginning to improve including my power output on the KK trainer started to smooth up more and increase.

    Yesterday after work I was going to do something fairly easy since I have the century training ride on Saturday. I am already muscularly sore all over especially in my legs from contiuous days of training and the 90 mile training ride last weekend. However, as I started to warm up on the rollers it just seemed to feel easier as if I had a break through night. In the 40 minutes of training I held 20 minutes hovering between 220 - 230 watts. It kind of freaked me out and I wanted to do more, but with the soreness in my legs and this 100 mile training event tomorrow I got scared and stopped.

    I am a little afraid of this training route tomorrow as sore as I was, but yet I am eager and determined. I don't do well with courses that have a saw tooth profile. I do best with flatter terrain where I can get into a TT type of cadence or even a mountain climb cadence. A saw tooth seems impossible to get a nice rhythm. It is a charity event, but several of us are using it for a training ride so our pace will be not be hard. I spent some time stretching this morning and everything is feeling pretty good. Should be a great day.

    Back to the my thoughts on the e-Motion rollers. I was struggling with why I was struggling so much to get my power up to the appropriate training range. I am just grateful now that it seems like it just took a little introductory time to get use to the feel. I am looking forward to longer sustained bouts of training at level indoors since it seems near impossible to do this outside in my area and with my weekday schedule.
     
  18. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    4
    Today was a great ride with some really nice 20 minute efforts for all in all 2 hours. Each one has been in actually the L4 range but the most important thing was that they did not feel like L4 intervals, much more L3. While the 240 continues to allude me, it has to be before end of summer. I have been riding home and I always go through CP and for the heck of it I looked at the file to see the power output in the rolling hills.

    I notice the hills all do a 0 ramp up to about 500 watts over about a 1 minute period. I wanted to train for them so I wanted to ask in the CS software by accident I found I could do a ramp up of 0 to X. So how would you train, would you just do 1 minute interval ramp ups from 0 to 500 cause over the 1 minute I am only doing 250 AP so 1 minute at 250 is useless or would you 10s, 20s, 30s at like 300, 400, 500? I think this is what is missing in my engine.

    -js
     
  19. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    For one minute you don't want to ramp it up. Just nail it. The only caveat is getting the first 10 seconds right. Invariably you'll go off feel and end up overestimating by a couple of hundred watts...
     
  20. Manweiser

    Manweiser New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    1
    The season has officially begun for me as I managed back to back rides this weekend even if they were a bit short.

    I was discouraged after my Saturday ride until I looked back at my 2010 log and discovered every route from last year was under 50 vertical feet per mile yet this one was around 71 vert.ft./mile. (Does anyone else look at routes this way? Does it make sense to?). http://ridewithgps.com/trips/212276 - I think the big hamburger I ate an hour or two before riding was a bad idea, but in the end I averaged 16.5mph.

    On Sunday I met up with two others for a little ride, and surprisingly, I led most of it – even ended up waiting at intersections for them at times. At no point in the ride did I feel over extended. In fact, it felt like a leisurely Sunday ride… http://ridewithgps.com/trips/213200 with a slow pace of 15.3mph.

    Summary: Definitely can see the affect of the winter training when I look at the numbers, but I feel like I should/could have done more. My climbing needs work base on Saturday's performance. I think I'll be pounding hills twice a week from here on out.
     
Loading...