Are we there yet?

[lanierb]

No doubt that's true but I agree with js, it differentiates the top athletes and of course it sure helps the talented newcomers that quickly ride at higher levels than the rest but overall it can be a real trap to start thinking too much about genetics and talent wrt your competition. We're all dealt different hands and we try to play them as well as we can but I've seen way too many riders throw in the towel by attributing too much to genetics and not realizing their own potential. I suspect your personal training time wall at around 10 hours per week would change more with a different set of life obligations and perhaps less time in the gym than it would with different parents. How far you progressed if you could regularly do 15 hours per week of training and what your FTP might look like is much more closely tied to your genetics than the simple ability to sustain a certain number of training hours with reasonable recovery.
 

I'm with Dave on this one. I've seen amazing progress from some people who had previously seemed "genetically limited". E.g. I have a friend who had been a regular on my Sunday group ride for several years and had gotten shelled on the long hills as long as I'd known him, despite some pretty good training. Then he retired (in his 50s), and within about 6 months he was a monster. We went on a training ride with the Tibco and Credit Agricole teams on a route that had the equivalent of a Category 3 climb on it (TdF standards) and we thought we would get dropped but he beat the CA sprinters up it! (setting a PB time in the process) Amazing what good training and good rest can do for you even in your 50s. I've often felt "genetically limited" myself, but then every six months I notice that I'm definitely better than I was before. Now I'm really not sure what I would be capable of with good training. Felt-> I know you love body building, and that's great, but my guess is it's holding back your cycling in a big way. They are completely at odds with each other. Cycling requires low weight efficient slow twitch muscles and zero upper body, while weight lifting requires large fast twitch muscles, a big upper body, and weight doesn't matter much (as long as it's not fat). That's fine, but at some point you might want to try dropping it and seeing what you're capable of in cycling. Your body can only do so much.

 

[jsirabella]

Besides the weather either being cold or rainy still, the cops giving out tickets in the park we also ofcourse have the condition of NYC potholes more like manholes.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

No shortage of bike eating potholes in the Pacific Northwet...

Every weekend training ride is an adventure in new potholes during the rainy season and some of them are deadly as the rain and traffic tear apart asphalt roads every winter. Sure teaches you to keep your eyes up the road, especially on group rides where the leaders might not notice them early enough to give much warning and take last second evasive action leaving unsuspecting followers to fend for themselves.

-Dave

 

[swampy1970]

Lol @ northwet

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by lanierb .




Felt-> I know you love body building, and that's great, but my guess is it's holding back your cycling in a big way. They are completely at odds with each other. Cycling requires low weight efficient slow twitch muscles and zero upper body, while weight lifting requires large fast twitch muscles, a big upper body, and weight doesn't matter much (as long as it's not fat). That's fine, but at some point you might want to try dropping it and seeing what you're capable of in cycling. Your body can only do so much.

Thanks lanier
I totally agree with what you are saying and know it is true, but I have almost 30 years invested in lifting with a number of championships. It is not something I can walk away from because I still love lifting as much today as I did in my peak competition years.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

As for my post on genetics, I deeply regret making a private observation into a public post. I agree with the responses, but it was evidently not well written based on those responses. I will leave it at that and move on to other things.

 

[jsirabella]

Amazing ride today!! Real happy as was able to hold >240 for more than 40 minutes. I was not really looking at the PT as was just riding. I faded for the last 20 minutes of that hour to finish at a 235.

Today was an adventure with the buses. Usually heading straight down 5th avenue is fun in the early morning to get to work. Today as I headed out of the park was a little later and as I was shooting down 5th avenue, had the wrong bus driver behind me. He went right up against my ass, talking less than a foot and started to beep. I was ****** so dropped the hammer down and had to pull some maneuvers between cars and was able to loose him as he had to stop at a couple lights.

Just another day in NYC. Dave I love Portland and sure I would love Seattle if I ever had the opportunity to visit but they tell me how it once rained for close to 30 days straight. Have you been to Beth's cafe? (name?).. Got to try that 12 egg omelette, 5 lbs of food!

-js

 

[daveryanwyoming]

I live a couple of block's from Beth's, home of the 12 egg omelette served with bottomless hashbrowns.... very popular with the goth crowd. Don't eat there much but it's good for the occasional cultural immersion experience

 

[daveryanwyoming]

... As for my post on genetics, I deeply regret making a private observation into a public post. I agree with the responses, but it was evidently not well written based on those responses. I will leave it at that and move on to other things....

Nothing to apologize for, it's a valid and accurate observation that we're not all dealt the same hands. And whether you posted that or not there's always folks that think about genetic advantages or perhaps their own genetic disadvantages.

My point was that it's definitely a factor but IME too many folks get overly caught up in it and fail to achieve their own potential or simply quit trying because of what they perceive as an insurmountable disadvantage. That's too bad and although I'll never ride a grand tour with the hand I was dealt I'm very happy I'm still pushing towards my own personal limits and have passed by an awful lot of 'more talented' riders over the years that gave up along the way.

It's a good discussion,

-Dave

 

[jsirabella]

felt-> Apology? That is silly bro. We are all here to share our training/life experiences and knowledge. If we all had the same ideas than why even come to these boards. Debate is good as it makes us all sit back and think. If you feel strong about it than fire back. No issues there.

Even Tony and Swampy can have at it but they seem to in between the digs at each other get a few points across also.

-js

 

[jsirabella]

dave->Not goth? You are from Seattle now. Got get yourself some tats.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by jsirabella .

dave->Not goth? You are from Seattle now. Got get yourself some tats.

Sorry, a 50 year old goth is well....pathetic

Not a hipster either though I've done plenty of fixed gear riding out on the road or on tracks.

BTW, 30 days of hard rain is probably some kind of record but most winters it seems like we get that or more. It won't be rain all day for 30 days but perhaps a month where it rained or drizzled for at least part of every day. The key is to time training rides during the dryer parts of the day and to come to terms with riding in the rain as it happens a lot. But if we don't train in the rain it makes it a lot tougher to race in the rain as we did last weekend. Here's the surviving masters field after a couple of hours of racing in the liquid sunshine.


-Dave

 

[swampy1970]

I live a couple of block's from Beth's, home of the 12 egg omelette served with bottomless hashbrowns.... very popular with the goth crowd. Don't eat there much but it's good for the occasional cultural immersion experience

That place, and the monster omelets, was on tv the other night. That's a challenge I wouldn't mind taking at somepoint. That a the Texas steakhouse in Amarillo - and their 96oz steak 'n fixin's dinner. Ate there driving back from tennessee and the meat was delicious... Some kid tried the challenge while we were there and failed.

 

[tonyzackery]

Originally Posted by jsirabella .

dave->Not goth? You are from Seattle now. Got get yourself some tats.

Heh! I'm a Seattle native and the furthest thing from a "Goth" you'll ever find! LOL! We're not all goblins and gremlins up here. LOL! But I do have a tat!

 

[Felt_Rider]

Edit: cleared by me

 

[jsirabella]

felt->I see your points and they are well thought out. My only thought are the following based upon your post.

1) Your comparisons are of people who are trying to make a sport be it cycling or bodybuilding into a career. If you can reach this level where you really want to make this your career than I believe the genetic issue becomes much more important. For most of us I believe our genetics can get us to a pretty respectable level barring any real physical issues. So basically the genetics argument I believe is not one to consider in the weekend warrior group. A weekend warrior I describe folks who spend up to 15 hours a week on a particular sport while still having many other responsibilities. Now when you quit your daytime job and spend all you time preparing for events on all levels including nutrition, recovery and training than and only than can you know your genetic potential.

2) As far as the "gifted" ones, it kind of reminds me of math class. I was good at math till I reached calculus and than it just fell apart. It was the proverbial all greek to me. There was guys who just seemed "gifted" at it. Never picked up a book but for me it would take me three times as long. But I did eventually get it so for me many times dealing with "gifted" people is just a matter of how long and hard am I willing to work at something. I have found sometimes I could surpass them cause they were a bit lazy.

3) I guess the coach who told you that you did not have a shot cause of your genetics gets under my skin cause in my life I was told many times that you will not amount to much of anything. My own Dad told me not worth the money to send you to an out of city college as you just not worth it. He thought he be loaning me money the rest of my life to survive. Than when I wanted to make software and start a company and than sell these movies, I was laughed at by folks. Company is over 10 years old, I have 30 people working for me, even last year we did over 20 million in sales, office in Japan, NYC and distribution in Portland, catalogue of well over 1000 films. Have made over 10 films now internally produced and still making more.

When some people who knew the guy they grew up with and suddenly find me on facebook, they give me that look like HOW? I tell them I was too dumb to not know that I could not do it so never listened to anyone and just kept trying. BTW the guy who told you you do not have the genetics, if he is your friend I am sorry but BLEEP HIM to tell you something like that. That is a lesson that needs to be learned and not told.

-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

Edit: Cleared by me

 

[Felt_Rider]

Edit: Cleared by me

 

[jsirabella]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .




I am not sure they are well thought out. Such is the madness that goes on in my head. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

On point #1 - that is more who I am thinking about. Those who are striving to make a career.
But really there are too many twists and turns to this topic.

There are two words to describe you that I would never think to use together. You are the "humble bodybuilder". Honestly given most of my experiences with bodybuilders that is a nice change.

 

[jsirabella]

felt->Honestly when it comes to sports I have never been even close to the level you are talking about so I can only relate from personal experiences that have some similarity. In business or in school it is more mental drive than genetics involved. I would have to say that I was lucky that was the case and ofcourse the not being smart enough to know I could not do it helped alot also.

swampy-> I did not know you were an M v. F kind of guy! Watch it along with some GAC.

tony-> you can be dark at times based upon your posts but definitely not goth.

dave->I know what you mean by pathetic. In my business I deal with lots of young people who watch these cult shows especially the horror/anime crowds. I feel so old now at conventions and I know these folks are thinking "why is he here?"

-js

 

[bgoetz]

Have not posted in a while, still following a structured training regimen, thanks to Dave I now have a neat spreadsheet I can plug some numbers into to help me track my training. Problem is I have been so stinking busy racing and training I don't have much time to do anything else. Training seems to have paid off, so far I managed to finish 6th, 4th, 1st in the three sanctioned events that I have competed in, all with pretty full fields. I also did really well in our first club race. I was going to take the weekend off of racing, but there is a crit nearby on Sunday and I can actually get in 2 sanctioned races for $20, so guess I am off to do that. Hope everyone's season is going as well!!