Are we there yet?

[jsirabella]

felt->I can not speak for Dave but that is pretty much what cagey means to me. Basically do not do too much pulling, try to stay in the middle of the group and most important changing gears often to stay in your powerband but getting the most speed for that section. Like today even in sections where I could have put out some nice surges I just looked down and tried to pick a gear where I would be in the ~300-~350 area and getting some nice speed. What I kept noticing was as I downshifted I would gain about ~10 on the cadence, now I am no rocket scientist but I have to try and memorize what speeds I would get with my 42 and 53 depending on the cog I pick. There must be some kind of simply math and not have to memorize each one. I know I could not do that.

You inspied me and I have to fins a video camera I could hook up to the bike or helmet. The contour looks nice but a bit pricey at $350. Which one do you use? I can probably write it off against the company as I can use it for a movie. Does it make quicktime files? It must. It has its own software but would rather do the editing in final cut and have some fun with music and cuts.

Today I headed toward the TOGA shop passed NYACK as I wanted to pass TALLMAN STATE PARK as thinking of doing a summer camp movie and wanted to take some pictures to show the guys. This is the first time after the issues that I would go this far for this long. I did it though, I just did not pace myself as well as I would like. Going to TOGA/PARK I was really kicking as I must have passed everyone in my way on the way up. On the way back though different story as there is a series of 3 hills that nailed me. I can not load the data from home as my setup is in the office. Tomorrow I am going in the office anyway for other stuff so will see what it looks like. I had some really nice runs so kind of interested. The entire ride was ~60 miles and 3 1/2 hours. I have not had that feelng kopride described so well of being a "couch lump" today. I feel like a ton of bricks hit me as have not done this in years. But the back is not that bad. It is sore but not really bad considering the amount of miles. I think I could do a century in my current condition depending on the route now. Just I would not do it that often just yet! But again considering where I was not bad,

I am really happy that you had that day yesterday. I stick by my words that if you continue to put in the time no matter how long it may take you should be able to hang with the weekend warriors. I also think that if you made this priority one you would have been there even faster, I felt a huge difference for me today than in the past. I am now 165 as opposed to my weight lifting 185. The diference was huge! I just wish I could keep my weight after a long ride. I went on the scale and I was 161 right after the ride. Let me first get that 260 anyway before we get down to the 160 anyway.

gman-> Great to have you back but I know it must be frustrating for you right now that you bought this awesome kit and can not use it but not a bad idea to stick with the trainer till you know the hip is ok. The trainer is definitely your friend while trying to recover as you are in control and the last thing you want is to be on the rode and can not keep going. That was one thing that kept me going from NYACK as last think I need is to be at NYACK and my back is killing me. My wife does not drive so it would be such a hassle to get back to NYC.

Just my 2 cents but you know your body better than I do.

-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

js - Glad you were able to get out for the extended miles and it sounds if your back cooperated for you. I suppose you have the bike fit fitting nicely. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

I am using the Contour GPS and the raw file is a Quicktime MOV. I am using video editing software rather than using the editing from the Contour folk. I would like to use the Dashware program and overlay the bike metrics on the video, but I think it would be too much trouble to get it all synchronized because I film over a long distance and shut the camera on and off. The bike metric video looks really nice when it is done by those racing crits. It seems that for bike cameras the two most popular are the GoPro and the Contour. I picked the Contour because it looks much more discreet mounted under the bar. It looks like a bike light, but even then you have to look closely to see it. Obviously the draw back is the limited perspective as opposed to the helmet mount.

It would be cool to see a video of cycling in Central Park at the speeds required for training.

 

[swampy1970]

Decided to pull out the Cannondale yesterday and give it a ride to see if my back would instantly self implode on the 175mm cranks after 60 miles - and it did. Made some positional changes to bring it more inline with what the training bike is now. Same ol' feeling that I got used to last year. The bike still felt freaking awesome though. Gonna have to wait to see whether it's going to be 165mm or 170mm cranks. Darned ride left me with tender hamstrings today - not what the doctor ordered but still got the 4 hours in. Aint gonna keep losing weight otherwise.

Ace question from my physio/massage therapist on Friday when we were chatting about back issues and the bike - "Does it really matter what length the crank is as long as you can put out the power you need and ride pain free?" She has a point and the PowerTap seems to agree for all-round riding.

Maybe that'll teach me for testing in the past on a brutally steep hill with lots of out of the saddle bits...

Not that it means much but this'll be the first 1,000 mile month in a long time and all apart from the 203miles on the Davis Double were pretty hard too. The ~38,000KJ probably had something to do with the 7.5lbs that were shed in May. June and July has more of the same planned. August and September are play time.

So the fancy Crankndale is going to be collecting much dust for a while and the training bike is going to do the rounds on the Alta Alpina 198miles, 8 pass ride in a couple of weeks. I've only done a couple of hills this year and felt pretty good on Cobb mountain in the Davis Double but it's ~9,000ft of climbing is about 12,000ft shy of the Alpina. If the back feels as good as it did after the Davis Double I'll be one really very happy camper. More power than this time last year and down to a weight that I've not seen since the late '90s should help. Hopefully passing the junction of Monitor pass at about 120miles on the way to Ebbetts will feel less like there should really be a sign over the road that says "Welcome to Hell" where the last four passes are both sides of Ebbetts Pass and both sides of Monitor Pass. If the scenery and ride support wasn't so awesome it could very well be...



... then again, Ebbetts is still blocked by snow. Hmmm.

 

[jsirabella]

felt->I will definitely pick up the Contour and give you guys a bike's eye view of it. Want to see if I can find a good deal somewhere. It would be fun for editing also. I downloaded the data and no special things to talk about other than I survived it pretty well. I will not ride today it would be junk miles and would mess up this week. The only thing of interest on the data from yesterday is that my 20 is 252 and my 30 was 242 and as usual they overlap each other but my 60 was 210 and in an entirely different area. I believe stopping at TALLMAN PARK cut off a good run and would have had a much better 60. But again my TSS was ~260 which is the highest I have had in a couple years for a ride.

swampy-> I finally looked and my is 170mm but like the doc said if you can get the speed and the power you want, what is the difference as long as you can ride in comfort! And you will need the comfort for that ride in a couple weeks!

Now for fun today as my upstairs neighbor left me a gift last night as my wife woke me up and showed me a small flood in the living room as water came through the ceiling ugh!! Never really a rest day in the life of a weekend warrior is there.

-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

Memorial Day ride felt more like a group ride than a training ride, but I was content with that. I feel refreshed enough today to get back to structured training tonight.

Intensity levels were all over the place during the 60 miles
Level Minutes TSS
1 8.00 1.93
2 61.57 37.51
3 95.13 121.49
4 31.37 32.84
5 3.63 8.13
6 3.15 10.62
7 7.64 22.67



Having fun on Trimble Hollow Road

 

[jsirabella]

felt->Good for you that you were able to put in a more miles yesterday. For me I took the day off as wanted to get in a good ride today. I did not get the ride I hoped for but in many ways I am a bit more proud of this ride than others.

I had so many issues with the leaking that I am writing this emai from home as the plumber is fixing the pipes. My wife is recovering from a procedure she had so I had to do everything this weekend and being here was part of that. So today I trie dto wake up early but woke at 530 instead of 5. Ran to the office as the bike was there.

I start the warm up and I notice the CT is just not holding the watts. I touch the back tire and a flat! At this point I have to run home in a couple hours to meet the plumber. Some reason I think of bgoetz and said let me deal with it as if a mechanical. I quickly change the back tire and know at this point I can only get a 2 x 20. I get in the first interval and for some reason just seems tougher than it should be. I take a 5 minute break and start the 2nd one and just was not in me. Thinking maybe the sciatica but it really not bad. I stop the bike for 5 minutes, start up and again just not in me. The pedal stroke just did not feel smooth as I was aiming for a 90 cadence. I than downshift two gears and take the cadence up to 95. Now I am fine! Not sure why as the same watts 230 (no time to download data yet) but finally got in that 2nd interval.

Why I could do it at the 95 and lower gear vs. larger gear and 90 cadence does not make much sense to me but it worked. I will figure it out eventually. I seem to be liking lately the quicker spinning and lower gears. Hmmm...

I guess why I say I am more proud of this ride is in the past I would have just thrown in the towel and say tomorrow is another day.

-js

 

[swampy1970]

Felt,

That looks like awsome cycling country - on roads with an awesome road surface. I'm envious of the latter.

Sure Cali has some great backroads but pretty much everywhere here you can say that the quality of views are usually the polar opposite of the quality of the road surface, unless you head up into the Sierra. Sometimes I have to wonder whether FTP = Frequently Thrashed Penerium and just be thankful that I really like my saddle and that I have a well built 32 spoke rear wheel.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Felt,

That looks like awsome cycling country - on roads with an awesome road surface. I'm envious of the latter.

Sure Cali has some great backroads but pretty much everywhere here you can say that the quality of views are usually the polar opposite of the quality of the road surface, unless you head up into the Sierra. Sometimes I have to wonder whether FTP = Frequently Thrashed Penerium and just be thankful that I really like my saddle and that I have a well built 32 spoke rear wheel.

I edited out the "shake and bake" sections as one of the women call it. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
Watching the video almost made me sick so I thought it best to exclude it from the video.

I often look at video for you guys out west and envy those epic climbs. I watched a really cool video of Levi climbing and descending I suppose near where he lives. The roads did look a little rough in some spots but the environment looked awesome.

As a side note the friend that was following Levi on a bike with the camera did an impressive job keeping up with him.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by jsirabella .

I guess why I say I am more proud of this ride is in the past I would have just thrown in the towel and say tomorrow is another day.

-js

Sounds like a tough day with life issues (home and plumbing). Those kinds of things can be a frustrating distraction to training.

My training this evening did not go as well as I had hoped. My boss decides he wants to finally meet with me about a project right as I was about to leave. Also I thought I was recovered enough from yesterday and I never felt sore, but as soon as I got near 200 watts on the trainer the muscular soreness became apparent. I ended up with a 1x20 at L4 with great amount of anguish and then 20 minutes of low L3. From there I just got on the treadmill to burn some extra calories.

I suppose I have to say tomorrow is another day.

 

[swampy1970]

Felt,

There are some great roads over near Santa Rosa - you only have to look at the pics and video from Levi's gran fondo for that but I've never had the pleasure of riding on that side of the hills apart from a brief excursion the other weekend on the Davis Double.

There's still time to sign up for the Alta Alpina event if you wanna make a trip of it. Looks like the snow ploughs made it too the top of Ebbetts Pass this past week

Plenty of pics of Ebbets taken last week courtesy of Ridgeback on the forum linked below.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=3363666

The climb makes you work to enjoy it - and the descent aint no cakewalk sit back and relax either. That first pic of the snaking road at the start of post #2 is drool worthy...


... and those snowbanks It'll be like cycling in a huge walk-in freeze again. I should pre-order the prednisone.

 

[jsirabella]

felt->I hit my wall today. I wanted to so a 2 x 30@>230 Nailed the first one but was a bit tired. As I went into the 2nd one again 10 minutes in started to see the legs just slowing up. I downshifted and tried to take up the cadence but this time the trick did not work as well I got in another 20 minutes > 230. I do not think it is the sciatica, I am just plain beat! I have that feeling I used to have when you get off the bike and feel almost a bit "drunk". I keep leaning in and out and my eye lids weigh a ton. Tomorrow I will go to CP and right outdoors with no plan. Just try and put in some miles. If the body is not up for it I will just relax and give myself off tomorrow and Friday. I will try and hit it hard again on the weekend. I think part of it has to do with how humid NYC is getting right now so indoor riding is becoming hotter as I do not have enough fans or A/C to keep me cool enough in the office.

On a side note picked up Driving Angry and Tru Blood Season 3 yesterday and when I pick up a camera got to make a video called Riding Angry. It would be a riot.

-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

It sounds like you need a L3 day in the park. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif That is how I view my training these days and yesterday especially.
You got in a first good 30 minute interval and made an attempt at another interval, but the way I view it you still were in those working zones even if it was not want you hoped.
You have something to add to your CTL bank, but by the sounds of your physical symptoms I believe you are right to go out tomorrow and just enjoy cycling.

Sometimes we don't look at the other aspects in living and only the training stress, but like the day you mentioned where you have both training stress and life stress (plumber at the house, plumbing issues and such) your cortisol levels are probably up from the various stress loads you begine to run a risk at getting sick or have a series of other physical issues pop up like I did a couple of weeks ago.

I say that but I did not follow what I am saying last night. I can appreciate what you are saying about Riding Angry.
Instead of backing off when I felt the soreness in the first interval I just got ****** off at my legs and pushed harder. The second interval my legs spoke back and said, "nope, ain't happening this time." Probably not the smartest thing to do, but I am not that bright anyway. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[jsirabella]

felt->I think you are right, either L3 in the park or maybe pop in some tru blood tomorrow and take it slower on the trainer.

Honestly I do not want to go back to that old dead pan feeling. I did that pre-issue all the time and really did not get me anywhere. Just always feel like my legs, eyes are all heavy and when I wanted to ride with groups I just did terrible. I think this time around lets play this smarter.

-js

 

[jsirabella]

felt->The L3 worked out wonderful today. I actually did indoors as wanted to catch TruBlood but I have noticed one thing, 2 hours is like the perfect workout for me. I really need more than a 30 minute warmup. I think that is strange but if I could ~ 45 minutes of just moving up the watts. The rest of the 2 hours is a breeze! I can even add in a couple SST intervals and they feel so much easier.

swampy-> Those pictures are awesome. Beautiful roads. Both you and felt images make me think of my rides to Boston or Baltimore. There really is nothing like those back roads where it is you and the road. Honestly though I get a bit more worried riding those roads than around here. Around here we are used to bikes but over there they drive faster and really not expecting cyclist on the road. When they do see you, you are an annoyance. On riding to Boston did I have kids pull up next to me trying to intimidate me or nearly get caught in the wind pull from a truck passing me.

-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

js, I feel that way about the warm up. The longer I go the better I feel and that is why I like a long distance ride on Saturday because we can use up to 20 miles on some of the routes just warm up and then the remaining 60 or more the pace gets much faster. On weekdays I have no choice but to train indoors. I simply do not have time to drive to a safe place to train. On week nights I have no more than 10 minutes to warm up if I am going to get in a few intervals and I feel like you that I would do better with 30 minutes of warmup.

Sure wished I had more time to train. My CTL has been rather flat lately. I bumped up my FT not long ago and I found it harder to get the CTL to trend upward and it has remained flat in WKO+ because I am finding it more difficult to hold the wattages that I am supposed to be doing. On the other hand my performance out on the road feels better so I am tickled with reality and not so much with the current look of the PMC. That is why I got angry with my legs the other night. I want to bust through the plateau, but I am being patient as my body slowly adapts.

And now we have the heat so my long weekend rides are now being shortened. Two weekends ago I overheated on a 85 mile ride. I was hydrated enough but we were not acclimated to the drastic temperature change. I pulled off under some shade as soon as I started feeling a dizzy. Once I cooled off I was good to go again, but two others in the group kept pushing the pace and ended up in worse condition. I am now considering the value of the long rides in this summer heat. It is getting to 100 degrees very quickly these days. I suppose I will shorten the miles to around 65 to 70 and pick up the intensity a little like last weekend. Hopefully that is.

 

[swampy1970]

Felt,

Funny you should mention this issue of temperature and dehydration. After reading your blog the other day I was wondering how you manage to survive that much L3 and L4 on a long ride for many hours with just two 26oz bottles let alone have the legs to go well at the end.

Hydration, or lack of... will affect performance as much, if not more, than bonking.

Personally for long L2 and L3 efforts on a 70 to 85 degree day, a 26oz bottle normally lasts me about 75 to 80 minutes. If it's over that then it's about an hour. Of course one has to remember than you need to change the amount of mix (HEED or Perpetuem) that you add to ensure roughly the correct amount per hour (calories/carbs) is still consumed.

I have a Profile for Speed seatpost mounted bottle cage that'll hold 2 bottles as well as the two on the frame. On hot days the two bottles in the back will get lots of ice cubes and a foil wrap and about 30 minutes in the freezer as I eat breakfast. I thought about using the thermal insultated bottles but they hold less and not being one for fashion I stuck with the functional approach. On training rides where I'm on the race bike I'll either take a small bottle and put that in my middle back pocket, in addition to the two on the frame and drink that first or just stop by home after a couple of hours and get a couple of pre-made bottles out of the fridge.

The only downside to starting to drink more is that initially you might feel bloated or that you've just drank way too much and that more liquid is the last thing you need. You get over it after a few weeks and it's just like anything else - you have to "train" yourself to eat/drink properly. Train the gut. You can reduce the carbs in the bottle and replace with some food like a banana, energy bar, are even a plain ol' slice of sammich.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider . I am now considering the value of the long rides in this summer heat. It is getting to 100 degrees very quickly these days. I suppose I will shorten the miles to around 65 to 70 and pick up the intensity a little like last weekend. Hopefully that is...

An alternative to shortening your rides is to get your riding partners out on the road a couple of hours earlier in the summer. That's what we did back when I rode in California's central valley when mid day temps started breaking triple digits. That's win win in many ways as there tends to be a lot less car traffic on the roads early on weekend mornings, the temps are better and you finish your rides earlier in the day leaving more time for household and family stuff.

One good trick on hot days is to freeze one or both of your water bottles knowing they'll thaw during the ride for cooler drinking water, and don't forget electrolytes either in your drinks or in tablet form (like Hammer Endurolytes) on hotter days.

-Dave

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Felt,

Funny you should mention this issue of temperature and dehydration. After reading your blog the other day I was wondering how you manage to survive that much L3 and L4 on a long ride for many hours with just two 26oz bottles let alone have the legs to go well at the end.


I have a Profile for Speed seatpost mounted bottle cage that'll hold 2 bottles as well as the two on the frame. On hot days the two bottles in the back will get lots of ice cubes and a foil wrap and about 30 minutes in the freezer as I eat breakfast. I thought about using the thermal insultated bottles but they hold less and not being one for fashion I stuck with the functional approach. On training rides where I'm on the race bike I'll either take a small bottle and put that in my middle back pocket, in addition to the two on the frame and drink that first or just stop by home after a couple of hours and get a couple of pre-made bottles out of the fridge.

That 52oz as of late has been more than what I posted on the blog. I will usually need to refill at least one if not both 26 oz bottle at the store stop.
I have thought about the seat mounted bottle cages. May think about that one a bit more.

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .




An alternative to shortening your rides is to get your riding partners out on the road a couple of hours earlier in the summer. That's what we did back when I rode in California's central valley when mid day temps started breaking triple digits. That's win win in many ways as there tends to be a lot less car traffic on the roads early on weekend mornings, the temps are better and you finish your rides earlier in the day leaving more time for household and family stuff.

One good trick on hot days is to freeze one or both of your water bottles knowing they'll thaw during the ride for cooler drinking water, and don't forget electrolytes either in your drinks or in tablet form (like Hammer Endurolytes) on hotter days.

-Dave

Last Friday night I prepared my bottles 3/4 full mixed in the Heed, Maltrodextrin and put them in the freezer. They were solid ice when I left the house but I remember drinking from the first bottle and it was cold but no ice after an hour. We started at 7:30 and finished at 11:30 it was 98F. I think we have enough daylight now that we can safely start at 7 am.

You are right about the traffic. Very nice that early in the morning. Where we cycle there are few cars anyway, but that early there was no problem warming up conversation pace four wide at times and not be concerned with interfering with traffic.

I need your kind of Cat level sustainable power and then I could start at 7, knock out an 80 mile ride in couple of hours and head on home. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
I think about you guys that are able to do a sub 4 hour century on flat to low rolling hill courses.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

...I think about you guys that are able to do a sub 4 hour century on flat to low rolling hill courses.

Never done a sub 4, but sub 5's are pretty common...

I guess the sun comes up a lot later down your way. It's pretty cool in the early morning around here (actually we've hardly seen any days with high temps above 60 yet so it's been damn cold overall) but the sunrise happens before 5:30 am this time of year so if we're willing to dress for the cool temps we can be on the road well before 6:00 am.

-Dave

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .



Never done a sub 4, but sub 5's are pretty common...

I guess the sun comes up a lot later down your way. It's pretty cool in the early morning around here (actually we've hardly seen any days with high temps above 60 yet so it's been damn cold overall) but the sunrise happens before 5:30 am this time of year so if we're willing to dress for the cool temps we can be on the road well before 6:00 am.

-Dave

In our area there is the Covington Century charity event that attracts upper Cat level cyclists and they market the event for those wanting to break the 4 hour mark as noted in the link below.
http://www.covingtoncentury.org/

I am sure if you were in this area you would have no problem hitting the 4 hour mark.
I have done the event twice hoping to break the 5 hour mark and actually had terrible performances both times.