Are we there yet?



felt->" beast mode", that is a great term. Got to use that in something one day.

Today while something was processing in final cut I did day 3 of the three day cycle. Anyway I was starting to get that tired feeling and accounted to body and my brain eing half looking at the computer and half at the PM. I than took my cadence down to the 90-95 and it all came together. It felt like I was barley pedaling but I was able to put in the 2 hours at L3 ~190. I believe that can be the difference maker to have more success in the 3 day cycles. I for some reason really want to pedal >95 naturally now.

I took a look at your upload. Nice stuff. Let me ask as I was interested in cadence cause of the above but is the software wrong or are you usually pedaling at ~80. If I did that I do not think I could put in as much as I do. Are you trying to make it tougher on yourself?

-js

On a side note, actually nice to have one thread in the cycling training forum that actually talks about training and not theory after theory after boring theory! Nice once in a while but how about someone ride the bike and discuss results!
 
Originally Posted by jsirabella .


...are you usually pedaling at ~80....
Click to expand...
Can't speak for Felt, but that's almost exactly the cadence at which I set my best power numbers during Threshold training and best actual time trial results on relatively flat courses, my self selected cadence during time trials usually comes in around 81 or 82 rpm on days that I turn out good times. Variable terrain, punchy mass start events, that's different but for steady sustainable power I much prefer slugging away at a pretty big gear to spinning lighter gears. YMMV...

-Dave
 
I find what Dave says applies to me.

I am not sure if I should look at cadence more, but I must admit I have not really made it a focal point. It is just where I feel comfortable training indoors to sustain power during an interval and on flat roads. I don't have cadence showing on my display while training and I barely glance at it after the upload.

To me it is much tougher to hold a high cadence and something I do work on apart from improving FT.
 
felt/dave->Today I gave it a try and see what you mean but I kept the cadence closer to 85-90. I did an hour at 230 and noticed that I could finish better. There were times during the ride where I kicked up the cadence but I would say that if I am trying to get my best results much better to keep the cadence lower.

Honestly it feels like I am making the CT do more of the work to apply the force to keep me at 230 while when I kick up the cadence I am doing more of the work. I know this is not true but does feel that way.

-js
 
js, I hoped my cadence at ~80 would not be an influence on what you use. If experimenting is okay, but if you already have an optimal cadence for a training session I would not want to have a negative influence by stating what is optimal for me. It seemed like you were already making great progress in the past few months with what you are using holistically.

On a side note about improving cadence the following was intentional practice and training.

The one thing I have tried to work on out on the road is finding that place in gearing for a course with sharp rolling hills in a spirited group ride. I have taken Dave's advice to stay in a lighter gear and be responsive to quick surges and it has helped, but it was also something I had to intentionally work on to improve. I have really worked hard in practice to spin a higher cadence in a lighter gear for the quick surges. During the summer months my group will ride that particular 65 mile route like it is a crit. They will just about sprint each hill and surge out of every intersection. In order for me to hang with them I had to adapt by improving my cadence for a faster cadence, which is not natural for me.

On that particular course I found that with my compact equipped bikes and 11-28 cassette would be to keep it about mid cassette and primarily use my chainring shifter to compensate for those quick surges. By doing this I had a decent gear for downhill effort and a drastic change as I was losing momentum going up the next roller. It only takes one click of the shifter for those fast responses and to keep up with those hill sprints and descents. Overall it seems to work well on this particular course. Overall for that course my cadence will be in the high 90's, which for me is really high, but I am adapting each time we use that route.

The one downside to using the chainring shifter is a dropped chain once in a while if the bike is not really fine tuned, but even with that I have now become really quick on using the chainring shifter to put the chain back on without much hesitation. It has to be really fast in order not to get dropped or hit from the rear, but 95% of the time I can do it. This happen a couple months ago and I dropped a chain, but had it back on within a pedal stroke by hitting the shifter to put the chain back on and then having to shift again to get it back to the right chainring for the sprint up the hill. Just a note that my bike is tuned pretty good and rarely drops a chain. When it does it is normally my fault.

One particular time a friend behind me responded quickly to avoid hitting me, but was amazed when I went by him on the climb. I heard him say, "but I saw your chain drop." He later asked how I did that so quickly. Just things I have been working on to improve. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
 
Finally a break and showed my final film and no more shoots till the new year so some extra time to cycle.

I have to say that keeping the cadence in the 85-90 range helps to keep the LB happy! I did 3 hours today and mixed it up and finally had a ride over 200 TSS for the first time in a while on the trainer. Mixed it up and even did an hour at 220!

I am mixing in the 230's and will see if I can get closer to 90 minutes or more at 230.

-js
 
3 hours on the trainer? At level? That is really good!! Great mental endurance as well.

Beast Mode
 
This past week I dipped below my 70 mark as CTL declines with those short 2x20 minute threshold sessions, but I did have a good 60 mile ride on Saturday that popped it back up into the 70's. Also a bottom end Tempo 30 mile ride on Sunday. Saturday was really better than I anticipated as I rolled out with a group, but only three of us on the return had each of us doing long pulls.

One of the guys on the return is new to our group and he has that sneaky power if anyone knows what I am talking about. He just looks like an average cyclists and older. He never does anything flashy in the group and seems to stay at whatever the pace is, but with his turns on the front he had the pace in the upper 20's mph on a fairly flat road. I was over my threshold even in the draft and when the gradient turned upward it was all I could do to hang on. Fortunately when I was up next on the pull I dialed it back a little to regain composure, but still kept a good pace. My friend also did a solid pace at the front. We had a couple of times when we were all content to ease up a bit and let the legs flush out a little.

For that 60 mile ride I had a total of 252 TSS @ 0.85 IF with a 0.9 IF in the last 30 miles.
It is probably perception, but it feels like the cool weather clothing zaps more energy. I feel that some of the clothing is adding to the resistance./img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

On Sunday I had hoped to do a 2 x 60 at the upper end of L3 (Tempo), but had nothing in me to hold that level. I got a note from my friend (the third guy) that he was too sore to train on Sunday and could only manage 5 miles before he called it day.

This morning I did several sets of squats, but was too sore and fatigued to get much done. I went upstairs and tried some active recovery spinning lightly in a spin class, but even that was difficult.

Tuesday evening may be interesting for the L4 2 x 20's, but I am going to get it done.
 
felt->Sounds like maybe a day or so rest may be in order but I know with the way you keep your training schedule set that you have it under control soon enough.

For myself the CTL is in the 80's, Saturday I had a good two hour ride on the trainer with 1 hour at 225. I have to say the 90 cadence is making a difference to being able to have less discomfort for longer hours in the seat. I decided to ride today even though I usually take Mondays off cause tomorrow is blood day as have to give a bag or so probably in the cards. I knew I could not do much so decided to go back to the 42 and just maintain a cadence of >95 and be in the 190-200 range. It worked well enough for an hour and than just died out.

For the last 30 minutes I decided to have some fun so to finish the 2 hours I put a pile of towels on the handlebars and got myself into a TT position (or as close as I could) and finish. It felt actually kind of comfortable. I am really thinking of getting a cheap set and putting them on for fun. Maybe an Xmas gift in the cards!

We are starting to get nasty cold around here but wasn't like I was doing much outdoor riding anyway!

-js
 
Even with my new trainer I feel like a hero to do 1 hour or so. I just can't stand to be a on a stationary bike that long, so hats off to you guys that can go the distance.
 
jh->I hated riding the trainer till I bought the CT. Since the CT I probably spend too much time on it. I just find some music and some videos to make all the difference. Once I got past the mental issue of being indoors it was no issue.
 
Five years ago I was forced to find a way to keep training when my job kept increasing demands on my time. I found that I could get a Kick A__ workout in less time indoors than out, without having to clean up afterwards (always a plus for a MTB). That convinced me to start working it into my regular routine when work evened out again for me
 
l2w -> Agreed as I have a similar situation. During the week the only time I can really ride is in the early morning and the trainer makes it much easier for me to do that. Otherwise I have to wake up at like 430 to really get in a long enough ride around here. NYC is very difficult for cyclists to train outdoors. On weekends it is a different story but I am pretty much stuck with the same old 9W in one direction or 25a in the other. The other issue is that it is very hard to find a nice section of road where I can just hold my watt output for 20 minutes or more so the trainer it is. When I look at Felt's videos or when I go to places like CA I get jealous as they have so many open roads that they can hold some nice numbers!

Have had a great week as I can really put in some hours this week so CTL slope looks great this week. I hope to hold this slope for the next two weeks so I can get back into 90s. Right now about 82. I have done lots of L3 with some mixed L4. Pretty much the 2-3 hour variety, 5 days a week can really make that CTL move. Hoping with this time I put in that I can see some benefit on the FTP side of the equation as really want that 250.

-js
 
Originally Posted by jsirabella .

l2w -> Agreed as I have a similar situation. During the week the only time I can really ride is in the early morning and the trainer makes it much easier for me to do that. Otherwise I have to wake up at like 430 to really get in a long enough ride around here. NYC is very difficult for cyclists to train outdoors. On weekends it is a different story but I am pretty much stuck with the same old 9W in one direction or 25a in the other. The other issue is that it is very hard to find a nice section of road where I can just hold my watt output for 20 minutes or more so the trainer it is. When I look at Felt's videos or when I go to places like CA I get jealous as they have so many open roads that they can hold some nice numbers!

Have had a great week as I can really put in some hours this week so CTL slope looks great this week. I hope to hold this slope for the next two weeks so I can get back into 90s. Right now about 82. I have done lots of L3 with some mixed L4. Pretty much the 2-3 hour variety, 5 days a week can really make that CTL move. Hoping with this time I put in that I can see some benefit on the FTP side of the equation as really want that 250.

-js
Click to expand...
.....and I get envious of your opportunity to train 2 hours on a consistent basis. Oh, and I am envious of your sustainable power. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
Indoor training is my best place because I can hold level without interruption. I love indoor training. Well, truthfully it is a love/hate relationship.

Today I started my time off from work for the remainder of the year and a good start with a 60 mile group ride.
Training Mode Off / Group Ride Mode On

All the ride data and write up for this casual group ride - Blog Entry
 
I have had some bad luck in the past but today was insane. I get into the office to finishing setting up this workstation I was going to use to do transcoding and just run tasks during the day. I get it done and than mac wants to install a firmware update so I hit ok and now the machine will not even turn on! I say ok live to fight another day.

While it was doing its updates I had decided to replace the tube with the slow leak in the front as have time. I do so and than when I am about to start to ride the back tire gets a flat. My only tube I used in the front just a few minutes ago. I than take the front off, get the tube and going to fix the back so I can use the CT. I take off the wheel and I notice the chain has gotten tangled. I have no idea how this can happen but it as like it twisted itself around and made circle. I can not get them out! How the heck did they get there? They just can not be twisted around and not even sure physically how you can even do that!

I have no choice and have to split the chain. I do so and could not believe how twisted the chain is! But I untwist it and run it through. Now I am ok but putting a chain back together is something I usually leave for the shop. I after about an hour some how get the pin back into the chain and it seems to work! I get in the CT, now ~2 started at 10am in the office and call my wife that can I stay till 4 or so as dinner is not till 6. I get the ok and carry on. It seems fine now but as I ride on the CT the chain seems to have like a skip in it. Not sure what it is but I look down and seems to bend in ever so slightly on every rotation. Have to see where that is from?

I got my 2 hours in and did one hour at 225. I still think I am in some nightmare or episode of American Horror Story. Crazy!

Why are demons tormenting me? I somehow prevailed but what a day.

ON a different note, Happy Holidays to everyone

-js

The mac still will not start!!
 
Originally Posted by jsirabella .

The daily rides will get a bit repetitive but today as been pretty much a steady diet of 25 minute warm up, 190 x 20, 200 x 20 and finish with a 210 x 20 and than a 10 minute cool down. I vary it a bit but in the end the range can be anywhere between 180-210 for the 20 minute and higher variety.

Here are a couple pictures of my torture center with some posters to give me encouragement and reminders. I especially like the poster with the girl with the needle saying "you may feel a little *****".

moz-screenshot.png


Click to expand...
That's one serious suffer cave! Probably one of the most austere I've seen. It's a good thing you have those posters to motivate you - the claustraphobia alone would probably launch me right off my trainer! :)
 
Continued bad luck or not, I had a great session today. When I got in I looked at the chain and it was just barely holding together so decided that bring it to the shop tomorrow and see what can be done. Took out the Cervelo, dusted it off and went along. I forgot I had put a 50 chainring on it and with the extra rest I was able to get in 90 minutes ~230.



The 50 really worked well but the setup on the bike was not good for me as left me extra achy. Tomorrow I will try and adjust to match what I had on the Cannondale. Live to fight another day.

-js
 
I got on the trainer this morning...
... but once I had tied my shoelace and coughed up some lung butter, I took my foot off the front fork support and walked off.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif
 
swampy->lung butter? Got a bad cold? Sorry to hear if you do.

l2w->I actually moved it to my room, smaller area. hehe. Going to Japan enough gets you used to really tight spaces. But the main reason was having access to TV with BD/VOD attached to it. The posters have been moved to that room as it is my office. The tight space has one advantage that I can put a table right next to me for liquids and ability to change music or video.

For some reason I have really gotten used to the trainer but it is really wrecking my bike and the CT. I do not sweat as much outdoors or I do but the sweat is not pouring all over the bike and CT. Indoors the sweat is in buckets and I have rusted the CT down pretty bad. Alot of the CT is showing lots of rust as is my crank and other small parts on the bike. The crank skin over the steel has literally begun to fall off and show the steel. The CT now has this deep groove in it so I have to make sure the tire is positioned close to the left side or it will rip apart the tire.

A bit crazy but I seem to want to keep hurting myself. My left side is aching me now as the setup was definitely what I was used to it. Every time I laugh my rib cab kicks back at me. I was too much weight on my upper body.

-js
 
As the 2011 season is coming to the end my last days of the season have been used riding with a group in a recreational format with no training structure.
I may go out with the group again tomorrow, but then I have several days off the bike to end the season due to travel. My CTL made a good jump by putting in some miles.

The group rides would range from conversation to quick surges up into anaerobic territory, but nothing really sustained for long periods.

I have enjoyed time away from structured training, but I am looking forward to the sufferfest training to start out 2012.
By trying to keep my CTL higher over the last couple of months I feel like that was a good move because I am so much further up the ramp that when I do start training in 2012 I am actually starting at a much higher level than last January. I feel mentally fresh. I feel like I am in good shape. I feel like I am ready to train (inside or outside) at a much higher level in 2012.

I just hope my wife will be patient with me as I hope to add a little more training time and miles to next year.
 
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