Are we there yet?



Unfortunately I don't have a period in my training where I've overreached/over trained, so I don't know what such a CTL increase or curve would be like... Sure I've had ATL spikes caused by rides like the Alta Alpina Challenge that have had a TSS in the mid 500's that have left my legs a bit stuffed for a day or so but those are just one offs.

Perception is a tricky thing. If it wasn't for the "hard facts" of the training sessions that are kept within WKO+ I would have sworn that I was putting out more power across the board last year and that I was both lighter and 'stronger.' The numbers say otherwise and my gains in the hills were all due to weight but it did highlight what a huge difference 10lbs makes on the bigger hills. I don't specifically try to go faster each year in events, partly because the weather in the hills can be very variable but I do look afterwards to see how the ride compared to previous years. Last year was a good year ;)

As far as your on the bike setup goes, if the position you had before works best for you then figure out your torso position and upper arm reach and set the aero bars to match that. Comfort and power can overcome a fair bit of aero loss - look at the positions of very fast guys like Indurain and Armstrong, hardly super aero but they're damned fast. Indurain reportedly spent a large amount of cash of extensive wind tunnel testing and ended up scrapping that position because he was slower in the road because it was uncomfortable and he couldn't put out the same amount of power. Even if you keep your seat position and your upper body angle the same, the fact that your arms are tucked in on aero bars will nearly always give you a more aero position. Find a position that works for you on the bike - not something that looks fast and then use your power meter to test. Andy Coggan posted some good stuff a long time ago about testing aero with regression testing and there's also the "Chung" method that Robert Chung posted on here along with a nice add on for Golden Cheetah. Sometimes your expectation of what looks aero and what really is aero can be two quite different things...
 
Well I finally felt "well" enough to get some threshold power numbers on the computrainer. I started by getting a 20min # on my TT bike and then switched to the road bike for a 5min #, another 20min #, and attempted to get a 1min #. I would say that I am still not 100% and doing them all during one 3hr season was not ideal, but the #s should be fairly close. I think if I had done the 20min interval on the road bike 1st, the 20min # would have been slightly higher as I was still able to manage the same power on the road bike after doing a 20min interval and then a 5min interval. As for the 1min #s, I really did not have it in me to go that hard this time of year. Plus I really overestimated what I could do and averaged ~800watts for 30sec and then blew, so I think the 1min # could be pretty far off, but I will go with it. This combined with the Aerobic TT # that I did last week should give me a good baseline to gauge improvement....

So here is my starting point for this season:

Aerobic TT # (5mile average @ 9-11bpm) below LT-280watts
20min threshold-325 watts
5min threshold-390 watts
1min threshold-530 watts

I will be sure to update as I progress through my plan...
 
@swampy, ty for the advice on the setup. The weather has been amazing in NYC as 50 degrees during Feb! I am thinking of giving a go of it outside but I really need to finish a rough cut this weekend. I will see.

@bg, nice numbers! Wish I could hold a 325 for 20 minutes. I believe though I am progressing in the right direction but not as well along as you my friend.

Today was my fourth day in a row and trying to repeat a pattern I saw on my PMC chart. A few weeks ago on the fourth day I would do 90 minutes ~90 TSS with 1 x 20@220, take next day off and have the best 3 hour ride on the following day. That was the day I did a 230 for 20 minutes at the end of my 3 hours with gas to spare. Let us see if the body will oblige on Saturday. I was actually happily surprised today when I woke up as I expected some really bad soreness combined with being just plain old tired. Exact opposite..go figure.

Watched The Thing remake for the 90 minute stint today and sorry to say while I enjoyed it, did not hold up to the Carpenter version. I mean with all the CG, leaps in film making that the original still out shines it. Speaking of films here is the spot we are pitching to apple for a new web series. Looks like a green light so far. Felt I know you like a good ninja film...



-js
 
Originally Posted by jsirabella .

@swampy, ty for the advice on the setup. The weather has been amazing in NYC as 50 degrees during Feb! I am thinking of giving a go of it outside but I really need to finish a rough cut this weekend. I will see.

@bg, nice numbers! Wish I could hold a 325 for 20 minutes. I believe though I am progressing in the right direction but not as well along as you my friend.

Speaking of films here is the spot we are pitching to apple for a new web series. Looks like a green light so far. Felt I know you like a good ninja film...



-js

js, I hope you can get out for a ride. It sure does something for mental break from indoor training. Our weekend in the south looks like it will be rain again so I best get mentally prepared for rolling indoors.

I wish I could just hold 325 for a couple of seconds. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Absolutely love a good ninja film /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif I look forward to checking out your video when I get home. blocked at work /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif
Just watched an interesting series on Hulu from Korea called Killer Girl K with english subtitles. Kind of like the Asian version of Nikita.
 
@dand, it felt like a beer commercial. I was waiting at the end for someone to say "And now is the time for a Michelob Light". lol

Like the use of B&W, really gave the right feeling. B&W can work.
 
js, for sure the B&W works, especially considering the tone. I particularly like that somewhat despondent 1000 yard stare the one fella gives toward the end.

Finally home after a long day at work and exhausted. 43 degrees out, not too bad but it just started to rain. Watching this again I suddenly don't feel so downtrodden. Now only 35 miles to go before I get to sit down for dinner.
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .



js, I hope you can get out for a ride. It sure does something for mental break from indoor training. Our weekend in the south looks like it will be rain again so I best get mentally prepared for rolling indoors.

Riding in the rain is fun, unless it's sub 45F and windy, then it's a bit of a chore. It's nice to get out there when the wind isn't that high and for once you don't have to worry too much about keeping cool. The sound of the rain seems to create a nice sense of calm that makes a L3 session more relaxing. A nice time to windmill a nice sized gear at mid 80 something rpm through the country roads.
 
Swampy, I agree about the rain especially in the spring through fall months. Quite refreshing IMO. Takes a bit more bike cleaning afterwards. I have done it in the winter months to the point of sleet. Not quite as fun, but the hot shower later is great. I am still hoping to get out, but at the moment they are saying thunderstorms. I am a little skittish lately. Check it out.

http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2011/08/brewery-to-cagle-road-lighting-fast.html

js, love the video. I always like girls kicking booty and wielding a sword. When we will get to see the full movie?

dan, that is a great video with the B&W. It really does set the tone of how tough it is racing in Belgium. Those guys are tough.
 
All I can say is amazing day on the trainer with numbers I did not think possible a couple months ago. I think I am really getting to figure this TSS/CTL charting and how I can make it work for me. The other thing I am starting to realize is that in the past the lack of L3 in my diet may have been holding me back. I was so focused on 1.5-2 hour rides with SST/L4 and when I did the 3 hour or higher it was most L2 so not too much just steady L3 output.

Today was the 2nd time, 3 hour ride felt like a 2 hour ride. In the 3rd hour I did a ~225 with the last 30 minutes being about ~230 and my 3 hour avg to boot was ~205 (highest to date since back on the bike) and the normalized closer to a 210. My last 2 hours I even nailed a 220. The only downside was by the end of hour 3 I beat myself pretty bad and not sure how much work I can get done now. I wanted to ride my bike home, think the subway is in order.



I have not had a TSS score over 200 since starting the 3 hour rides, first one came today with a 215!

-js
 
If your legs are stuffed and you're feeling smashed the best thing to do is fuel up and take a relaxing ride home. Easy gears...
 
js, great job as usual. Man, with those 3 hour effort at sustained power output have to amount to some great conditioning. I hope you get to try out a TT this year.

Weather people got it wrong again. Last night they were predicting storms at 60% chance, but this morning it looked like I could slip in a quick ride. I ended up with 60 miles and the sun was popping out at the end. My legs felt too fatigued from training this week to put in more miles and I had enough of a beating from the wind. I picked a course with a variable road gradient which it was hard for me to do sustained blocks of power at level, but it was a good ride considering I had some good L4 intervals this week inside.

Ride Data
http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2012/02/brewery-to-red-bud.html
 
Nice, to see everyone getting out and putting in some miles. I did my 1st 4hr ride of the season and I am toasted!! Most of the ride was L2 with a portion of L3 towards the end because it was in to the wind and I can't go slow enough to stay in L2, lol. Did the whole thing straight, stopped once to pee, I am really becoming an advocate of doing your long rides straight up.
 
@felt, ty and glad to hear you got out there and got in some good miles. Looked at your blog and some nice L4 indeed.

@bg, sounds like me, you and felt all got a bit toasted today. Got to build the base.

@swampy, The funny thing was today I almost did not get on the bike. I had moved some stuff around in the office and was 11 and was starting to dread but once I got on it after the first 20 minutes I could tell was going to have a good ride. I was going to take the subway and needed a reason to use the bike so switched up bikes and used the Ritchey home. Talk about letting the wheels roll you home. As soon as I got home ordered some pasta and couple slices of pizza. Took a bath and playing dead on the couch.

Let us see what tomorrow holds, lots of L2!

-js
 
Had a fun few hours out on the flat roads. Stuck the profile t3 bars on and they're remarkably comfy. Had a stop or two in there to make adjustments but for the most part it was L3 and a bit too much uncalled for L4 in the middle 1/3 or the ride thanks to a rough road surface and a stiff breeze... The last 15 minutes were just spent riding at "brevet power" just to see how fast (or slow) I'd be going. Lol. I was pretty much farked by then anyway and needed to shake out the legs to make the start of tommorrows long ride seem a bit more palitable.

I could probably lower the stem a bit but I had a solid carbon spacer in there - need to buy a kit to allow me to adjust - but for 3 hours at a fairly good pace it seemed ok until it started getting cold around 5.
 
@swampy, I heard great thing about profile bars. I really wanted to win a used set on ebay but was not in the cards. Sounds like the hours will be adding up soon.

@felt, looking forward to the video and good to hear you were up for it.

I kind of had the same feeling today. I really thought I would not be able to get on the bike but I got it to the office and put in 2 hours @ ~200. The second hour I did a 2 x 20 @ 220 and it was not bad at all. I got a TSS ~120 and tomorrow is an off day. I am really making this TSS work for me now. Instead of just charting it I am trying to aim my rides in a TSS range.

Felt I will pick an event, even if another MS ride. It will all work out. I am not going to do this type of training just to train more!

-js
 
Originally Posted by jsirabella .

@swampy, I heard great thing about profile bars. I really wanted to win a used set on ebay but was not in the cards. Sounds like the hours will be adding up soon.

-js

Due to their adjustability they are pretty good. The extension has a nice dip in it that's very handy for grabbing if you want to sit up a little bit to get some leverage for small hills. The best part though is the fact that the armrests are clamped onto the aerobar so you can place them behind the handlebar. That way you don't have to compromise your regular position for climbing and descending. They're actually that comfy I might even do away with the regular drop handlebar and get an semi aero alloy base bar.

The hours have to start adding up - rides 3 and 4 (aka stupid and stupider) in the brevet series I'm looking at are ~260 miles and ~380 miles. The first aint that hilly so it shouldn't be as hard as the Alta Alpina but the latter ride starts at night and head to the foothills of the Sierras. Two nights of riding and a 40 hour limit - something I've not done before...
 
Well the video turned out to be poor quality, but I said I would post it. Bummer about the quality and it does not run smoothly. I am not sure what happened.

 
Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

The hours have to start adding up - rides 3 and 4 (aka stupid and stupider) in the brevet series I'm looking at are ~260 miles and ~380 miles. The first aint that hilly so it shouldn't be as hard as the Alta Alpina but the latter ride starts at night and head to the foothills of the Sierras. Two nights of riding and a 40 hour limit - something I've not done before...

I will be interested in how this goes for you. I was amazed at your events for last year.

People have asked me why I train the way I do if I am just a recreational cyclist, but I have come to respect in worthy events one must have fairly good fitness because of lot of the notable events have a cut off time and if you don't make it to that point you have just wasted a lot of effort and potential expenses. Most of the events on the east coast a person in half good shape can make the cut off point/time. So I can appreciate what you are striving to do. That is some serious business for a goal.

best wishes
 

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