Argon, Calfee, Madone or orbea Orca?



L

Ltk

Guest
Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179 lbs, a
pedal-masher and I like the bike to jump when I hit the
pedals. Don't mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate
now. Any opinions on which is the best?
 
> Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179 lbs,
> a pedal-masher and I like the bike to jump when I hit the
> pedals. Don't mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate
> now. Any opinions on which is the best?

As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living, I've
been eyeing the Madone with more than a small amount of
lust. I don't *need* one... my 5900 is everything I've ever
wanted in a bike. But still, there's something about the
Madone that calls to me... too bad the waiting list is so
long. Can't justify getting one when my customers can't.
Hate that!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
teamk-<< Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any opinions on which
is the best?
>><BR><BR>

The one that fits you the best. I am partial to Calfee.

Great price, titanium dropouts and other bits, $2000.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
> The one that fits you the best. I am partial to Calfee.
>
> Great price, titanium dropouts and other bits, $2000.

Peter: It took you over three hours to follow my response. I
thought about typing one in for you! (The good news is that
it means you must be having a pretty decent day...)

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> teamk-<< Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any opinions on which
> is the best?
> >><BR><BR>
>
> The one that fits you the best. I am partial to Calfee.
>
> Great price, titanium dropouts and other bits, $2000.
>
> Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
> costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
The waiting list is long because its already out of
production.

The Madone is a marketing fiasco -- you are buying a bike
that Lance doesn't like.

--

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award
Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179
> > lbs, a
pedal-masher
> > and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals. Don't
> > mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any
> > opinions on which is the best?
>
> As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living,
> I've been eyeing
the
> Madone with more than a small amount of lust. I don't
> *need* one... my
5900
> is everything I've ever wanted in a bike. But still,
> there's something about the Madone that calls to me... too
> bad the waiting list is so long. Can't justify getting one
> when my customers can't. Hate that!
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-
virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.642 /
Virus Database: 410 - Release Date: 3/24/2004
 
> I ramble around on these NG each morning over a cup o
> jo...then onto the
bike
> and to work. Love my new Mewrckx, BTW..it ain't tin or
> carpet fiber or
beer can
> stuff, but i sure like it!!

Oh dang, what did you go out and get a new bike for? That's
*not* helping me any. My bike's not even four years old yet;
I really don't *need* a Madone...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
Does that mean thge 5900 is the best option from Trek?

Anyone know how the '04 5900 compaes ridewise to the '03
version? Specs say its 1000 grams, which is same as the
Orca, which I'm hearing may be a little too light.

My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to my
LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they only
have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?

Thanks.

"JayofMontreal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:i_Jbc.240$%[email protected]...
> The waiting list is long because its already out of
> production.
>
> The Madone is a marketing fiasco -- you are buying a bike
> that Lance
doesn't
> like.
>
> --
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the
> Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter
> http://mail.giantcompany.com
>
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179
> > > lbs, a
> pedal-masher
> > > and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals.
> > > Don't mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate now.
> > > Any opinions on which is the
best?
> >
> > As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living,
> > I've been eyeing
> the
> > Madone with more than a small amount of lust. I don't
> > *need* one... my
> 5900
> > is everything I've ever wanted in a bike. But still,
> > there's something about the Madone that calls to me...
> > too bad the waiting list is so
long.
> > Can't justify getting one when my customers can't.
> > Hate that!
> >
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> > http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-
> virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.642 /
> Virus Database: 410 - Release Date: 3/24/2004
 
LTK wrote:

> My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to
> my LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they
> only have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?

Talk your LBS into becoming a Calfee dealer?
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
> Does that mean thge 5900 is the best option from Trek?
>
> Anyone know how the '04 5900 compaes ridewise to the '03
> version? Specs
say
> its 1000 grams, which is same as the Orca, which I'm
> hearing may be a
little
> too light.

The new 5900 is only slightly-lighter than the '03 (mine is
an '01 which is basically unchanged from the '03). The main
advantage to the '04 is that it uses a conventional fork &
headset arrangement, so you can use a Chris King headset if
you wish. No more pressed-in lower bearing race.

The 5900 is about as "proven" a bike as you can find; I
wouldn't worry about durability, unless you intend to smash
it or have someone run into your chainstay (but such impacts
would probably wreck just about any frame, and the TDF
showed that it was possible to push 700 watts through a
single chainstay... which was *way* more than anyone thought
could be done).

Most high-end bike frames have a very short sales lifespan
before they become yesterday's news and get tossed in favor
of some other "new & exciting" design. By contrast, the 5900
is the result of continuous refinement over the past 13
years. The bugs were worked out many years ago!

> My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to
> my LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they
> only have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?

One of the reasons shops don't carry every line in the world
is that they're comfortable with how a particular brand
handles problems & warranties. TREK is known to be one of
the very best in that regard, and that's a very comforting
thing when selling high-end bikes. That's not to say that
Calfee isn't excellent as well, but I have no direct
experience with them.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
Got my '04 5900 two months ago. Already have done a double
on it and it's, like Barbara would say, like butter! Love
it, love it, love it...

"LTK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:XEWbc.34051$He5.651811@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Does that mean thge 5900 is the best option from Trek?
>
> Anyone know how the '04 5900 compaes ridewise to the '03
> version? Specs
say
> its 1000 grams, which is same as the Orca, which I'm
> hearing may be a
little
> too light.
>
> My one problem w/ Calfee is I want to give thebusiness to
> my LBS. They're great guys and I'm loyal. Problem is they
> only have Trek, Orbea and Felt. Any other thoughts?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> "JayofMontreal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:i_Jbc.240$%[email protected]...
> > The waiting list is long because its already out of
> > production.
> >
> > The Madone is a marketing fiasco -- you are buying a
> > bike that Lance
> doesn't
> > like.
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> > FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the
> > Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter
> > http://mail.giantcompany.com
> >
> >
> > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:[email protected]
> > gy.com...
> > > > Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179
> > > > lbs, a
> > pedal-masher
> > > > and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals.
> > > > Don't mind quick steering. Riding an LS Ultimate
> > > > now. Any opinions on which is the
> best?
> > >
> > > As a highly-biased person who sells them for a living,
> > > I've been
eyeing
> > the
> > > Madone with more than a small amount of lust. I don't
> > > *need* one...
my
> > 5900
> > > is everything I've ever wanted in a bike. But still,
> > > there's
something
> > > about the Madone that calls to me... too bad the
> > > waiting list is so
> long.
> > > Can't justify getting one when my customers can't.
> > > Hate that!
> > >
> > > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> > > http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG
> > anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version:
> > 6.0.642 / Virus Database: 410 - Release Date: 3/24/2004
> >
>
 
"LTK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> Shopping for a ne carbon frame. I'm a new racer, 179 lbs,
> a
pedal-masher
> and I like the bike to jump when I hit the pedals.
> Don't mind
quick
> steering. Riding an LS Ultimate now. Any opinions on
> which is
the best?

How tall are you, and what is the problem with your LS
Ultimate? I broke an old Cannondale and was in the market
for a new frame (until I was told that I could have a new
frame free), and was told by the local Trek shop that I
should forget about the OCLVs. I am slightly under 6'4," and
the advice from the shop proved accurate. If you are in the
range of people who can fit an OCLV, however, I would buy
one for the warranty and dealer network. I would not bother
with an overpriced Madone -- or any other tippity-top end
bike unless it were given to me by a sponsor (not likely
being that I am an old, retired racer -- although I may make
a comeback just to prevent Lance from taking 6). At your
weight, I doubt you are KOM and think you should concentrate
on something durable and stiff as opposed to ultra-light and
sketchy. I think you should get a reasonably light Trek and
then dump the money on the components, which you could (if
you must) trade to a different frame at the end of the Cat 4
or 5 season (because you may need one -- along with skin
grafts). You could then sell the Trek on e-Bay as "slightly
used." -- Jay Beattie.
 
> Was the Madone redesigned with a more like 5900 seat
> tube?? At Lance's request... or not??
>
> Urban legend?? Done for Cheryl?

Lance & Cheryl are the stuff of urban legend, but a bike???

Lance, weight-weenie that he is, likes the idea of a Madone
"SL" without the aero bit at the back of the seat tube. The
rest of the team gets the standard Madone, but... well,
what Lance wants, Lance gets. It makes a little bit of
sense, given that Lance isn't usually out there in the wind
on his own (unless it's a steep climb, in which case
aerodynamics isn't such a huge issue). The rest of the team
is out working at the front, and needs all the aero help
they can get.

Anybody who doesn't realize the extent to which Lance has
affected product development at TREK over the past few years
has been living in a hole someplace. But what makes things
different at TREK is that, whatever they design for Lance
becomes a stock production bike, because the costs of a new
model are all up-front... so, whatever Lance wants, Lance
gets, and we get the exact same thing too. It's going to get
confusing next year...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> Lance, weight-weenie that he is, likes the idea of a
> Madone "SL" without the aero bit at the back of the seat
> tube. The rest of the team gets the standard Madone,
> but... well, what Lance wants, Lance gets. It makes a
> little bit of sense, given that Lance isn't usually out
> there in the wind on his own (unless it's a steep climb,
> in which case aerodynamics isn't such a huge issue). The
> rest of the team is out working at the front, and needs
> all the aero help they can get.

Maybe aero-kitsch bikes offend Lance's aesthetic
sensibilities -- as they do many other people's.

> Anybody who doesn't realize the extent to which Lance has
> affected product development at TREK over the past few
> years has been living in a hole someplace. But what makes
> things different at TREK is that, whatever they design for
> Lance becomes a stock production bike, because the costs
> of a new model are all up-front... so, whatever Lance
> wants, Lance gets, and we get the exact same thing too.
> It's going to get confusing next year...

It's my impression that Trek is doing very, very well,
compared to other bike companies. Maybe they ought to keep
listening to Lance.

Matt O.
 
If you're talking about the Madone 5.9, it's already here. I
was going to write a review on this bike, but want to ride
it for a month to put it to the test. I've also had the Trek
5900 Ultralight, so I could compare them pretty close. In
short, the Madone rides nothing like the 5900. Two different
bikes. If you're looking for a pure climber's bike, then I
would go with the 5900, or the Giant Once Carbon. Every
rider is different and enjoys certain features on a bike.
The Madone is a very comfortable bike which is also fast and
great on the climbs. I would ride them all before making a
decision. Here's one of reviews I've read on the Modone:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/tech/articles/4353.0.html
There are more current review done on this bike. -tom

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> MikeJ-<< Anybody who doesn't realize the extent to which
> Lance has
affected
> product development at TREK over the past few years has
> been living in a hole someplace. >><BR><BR>
>
> How far away is the new 'Armstrong' frameset, made
> by Trek...
>
> Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
> costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
BTW, it's Sheryl, unless it's another S.O. we don't know
about. Are you sure it wasn't her bike? http://www.trekb-
ikes.com/news/news_detail.jsp?articleId=6457&category=ho-
t_news -tom

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> Nope, I'm talking about a Armstrong labeled frameset, ala
> the Lemond,
after
> Lance has retired(shortly after 2004 TdF) and after he
> rides into the
sunset in
> the Republic of Texas, in a pickup truck, Cheryl at his
> side, back filled
with
> cases of Budweiser.
>
> Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
> costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> tom-<< If you're talking about the Madone 5.9, it's
> already here.
> >><BR><BR>
>
>
> Nope, I'm talking about a Armstrong labeled frameset, ala
> the Lemond, after Lance has retired(shortly after 2004
> TdF) and after he rides into the sunset in the Republic of
> Texas, in a pickup truck, Cheryl at his side, back filled
> with cases of Budweiser.

You paint a nice fairy-tale picture, Peter...and it might
come true!

So what would be the "distinguishing characteristics"* of an
Amstrong? Any particular geometry traits? I'm built exactly
like him (if you squashed and widened him and then fed him
gallons of ice cream, that is), so I might be interested :)

Bill "ideal cookie cutter candidate" S.

*other than a cracked chainstay, of course
 
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> tom-<< If you're talking about the Madone 5.9, it's
> already here. >><BR><BR>
>
>
> Nope, I'm talking about a Armstrong labeled frameset, ala
> the Lemond, after Lance has retired(shortly after 2004
> TdF) and after he rides into the sunset in the Republic of
> Texas, in a pickup truck, Cheryl at his side, back filled
> with cases of Budweiser.
>
Shiner Bock