Armed & Bent

[Joshua Goldberg]

FWIW/IMHO It is not a great idea to be packing heat while riding....but if U feel the need. There is
a Legal alternative that can do as much/if not more damage than a single 9mm or .22 cal. I refer to
a "Flare Gun". They are very lightweight, reusable, (LEGAL) and best of all Low Cost with many uses
(beyond) "lighting up" those who'd do you harm to your person...or bent. Most of your targets will
be within 100 feet of you and a Flare Gun at 100 feet will do some serious damage and the closer the
target...the greater the damage. IF U miss...someone will call in the Fire Dept/Police to deal with
the fire. IF you hit your intended target, someone may call in the Fire Dept/Police to deal with
your crispy critter enemy rolling around on the ground or being toasted in their car.

Some jerk in a car/truck cuts you off...ride up to them...mouthoff curse words and when they
roll down their car window...pop in a flare and drive away (preferably pop the flare into their
Backseat). They will be too pre-occupied trying to put out the fire, that they will not go
after you.

The ONLY downside to using a Flare Gun is that the person you fire a flare at...MAY have something
far more lethal to return fire with. At which case you (still) have a Flare Gun to Aim straight
up...thus getting the attention of neighbours who will notify the Fire Dept/Police who will
transport your sorry stupid bullet ridden body to the Hospital.

I have ridden armed long ago and I found that I was prone to riding in areas that I would not
normally ride in unarmed...then I grew up, changed my route and driving times and lost the .30 cal.,
well actually I bought a .357, but I never rode with it and it went into a vice and met Mr. Rotary
Tool in September 1999.

 

[Geob]

> FWIW/IMHO It is not a great idea to be packing heat while riding....but if U feel the need.

I guess you might scare off some potential dangers by waving it around.

> Some jerk in a car/truck cuts you off...ride up to them...mouthoff curse words and when they roll
> down their car window...

No.. the most likely scenario I see is that they simply drive over you. Maybe a flick of the
steering wheel, maybe even a bit more active pursuit.

> pop in a flare and drive away (preferably pop the flare into their Backseat). They will be too
> pre-occupied trying to put out the fire, that they will not go after you.

It sounds like you have been subjected to some bullying by those nasty cars.

But consider this... the USFS and other forestry firefighting units use a thing that I can't
remember the name of. I used to fight wildfires in the western USA, and to back-fire areas we wanted
to burn the fuel off of, we had cans full of napalm with a fuse and a thing like a dynamite cap.
They are designed to transform everything within 20' into a consuming conflagration. I was never
aware of any special inventorying of these products. I mean, who knows if you used 12 or 20 of them
yesterday afternoon? Throw THAT into their backseat and I doubt that they will be concentrating on
you any more.

> The ONLY downside to using a Flare Gun

My imagination must be more active right now than yours.

> I have ridden armed long ago and I found that I was prone to riding in areas that I would not
> normally ride in unarmed...then I grew up

I used to carry a loaded pistol in my briefcase at work. Bad part of town, overtime till 3am, etc. I
used to win trophies with my target pistol, but I hope i never have to aim a gun at a person. I no
longer carry.

I once read a sci-fi book where adolescents were sent to an uninhabited planet for a month of
survival training. You could take whatever weapons you wanted. One young guy was given the advice
from an experienced survivor to carry only a knife. She explained to him that it would foster an
attitude of caution and defense rather than aggression. It sounds like wisdom to me. But I'd still
carry a weapon there I think! My general tendency is already towards caution.

> I bought a .357, but I never rode with it

Yeah.. I don't carry mine either... I mean, think of the odd looks I'd get if I had my S&W Model 686
stuffed into my tights?

> and it went into a vice and met Mr. Rotary Tool in September 1999.

Are you saying you deliberately destroyed a perfectly good .357? That doesn't sound in harmony with
some of your flare gun statements. But maybe I am extrapolating too much.

GeoB

 

[Joshua Goldberg]

I destroyed the .357 after I walked in on my daughter and one of her girlfriends playing Russian
Roullete with it. When I took it away I poitned out that if the Safety had not been on...one of them
would have been dead. For reasons unknown I showed the girls how to remove the safety and then I put
it down on a desk and went to make a coffee. The girlfriend (still thinking it was a toy or a
replica) pointed it at the livingroom window and fired. I figured it was time to get out Mr.Rotary
Tool. A chap I sometimes went bicycle riding with had been blown away a few weeks earlier by 2 Crack
addicts mugging him about 100 yards from where I lived...so I had the .357 out of the workshop to
clean it. "Armed" Home Invasions had become really trendy in my area. The Police figured the 2
killers returned to Jamaica to avoid arrest. I lost the weapon and then moved to a saner community.
Re: my Adapt or Die policy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GeoB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > FWIW/IMHO It is not a great idea to be packing heat while riding....but if U feel
the
> > need.
>
> I guess you might scare off some potential dangers by waving it around.
>
> > Some jerk in a car/truck cuts you off...ride up to them...mouthoff curse words and when they
> > roll down their car window...
>
> No.. the most likely scenario I see is that they simply drive over you. Maybe a flick of the
> steering wheel, maybe even a bit more active pursuit.
>
> > pop in a flare and drive away (preferably pop the flare into their Backseat). They will be too
> > pre-occupied trying to put out the fire, that they will not go after you.
>
> It sounds like you have been subjected to some bullying by those nasty cars.
>
> But consider this... the USFS and other forestry firefighting units use a thing that I can't
> remember the name of. I used to fight wildfires in the western USA, and to back-fire areas we
> wanted to burn the fuel off of, we had cans full of napalm with a fuse and a thing like a dynamite
> cap. They are designed to transform everything within 20' into a consuming conflagration. I was
> never aware of any special inventorying of these products. I mean, who knows if you used 12 or 20
> of them yesterday afternoon? Throw THAT into their backseat and I doubt that they will be
> concentrating on you any more.
>
> > The ONLY downside to using a Flare Gun
>
> My imagination must be more active right now than yours.
>
> > I have ridden armed long ago and I found that I was prone to riding in
areas
> > that I would not normally ride in unarmed...then I grew up
>
> I used to carry a loaded pistol in my briefcase at work. Bad part of town, overtime till 3am, etc.
> I used to win trophies with my target pistol, but I hope i never have to aim a gun at a person. I
> no longer carry.
>
> I once read a sci-fi book where adolescents were sent to an uninhabited planet for a month of
> survival training. You could take whatever weapons you wanted. One young guy was given the advice
> from an experienced survivor to carry only a knife. She explained to him that it would foster an
> attitude of caution and defense rather than aggression. It sounds like wisdom to me. But I'd still
> carry a weapon there I think! My general tendency is already towards caution.
>
> > I bought a .357, but I never rode with it
>
> Yeah.. I don't carry mine either... I mean, think of the odd looks I'd get if I had my S&W Model
> 686 stuffed into my tights?
>
> > and it went into a vice and met Mr. Rotary Tool in September 1999.
>
> Are you saying you deliberately destroyed a perfectly good .357? That doesn't sound in harmony
> with some of your flare gun statements. But maybe I am extrapolating too much.
>
> GeoB

 

[Lewis Campbell]

That sounds like fun, Joshua.

Another thing you could do (and something which I suggest to women) is to carry a can of spray-on
oven cleaner, instead of mace.

This way, if some nasty person aggresses you, you can give them a permanent reminder not to
mess with you.

Lewis.

http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> FWIW/IMHO It is not a great idea to be packing heat while riding....but if U feel the need. There
> is a Legal alternative that can do as much/if not more damage than a single 9mm or .22 cal. I
> refer to a "Flare Gun". They are very lightweight, reusable, (LEGAL) and best of all Low Cost with
> many uses (beyond) "lighting up" those who'd do you harm to your person...or bent. Most of your
> targets will be within 100 feet of you and a Flare Gun at 100 feet will do some serious damage and
> the closer the target...the greater the damage. IF U miss...someone will call in the Fire
> Dept/Police to deal with the fire. IF you hit your intended target, someone may call in the Fire
> Dept/Police to deal with your crispy critter enemy rolling around on the ground or being toasted
> in their car.
>
> Some jerk in a car/truck cuts you off...ride up to them...mouthoff curse words and when they
> roll down their car window...pop in a flare and drive away (preferably pop the flare into their
> Backseat). They will be too pre-occupied trying to put out the fire, that they will not go
> after you.
>
> The ONLY downside to using a Flare Gun is that the person you fire a flare at...MAY have something
> far more lethal to return fire with. At which case you (still) have a Flare Gun to Aim straight
> up...thus getting the attention of neighbours who will notify the Fire Dept/Police who will
> transport your sorry stupid bullet ridden body to the Hospital.
>
> I have ridden armed long ago and I found that I was prone to riding in areas that I would not
> normally ride in unarmed...then I grew up, changed my route and driving times and lost the .30
> cal., well actually I bought a .357, but I never rode with it and it went into a vice and met Mr.
> Rotary Tool in September 1999.

 

[Doug Huffman]

And what of the argument that 'he might take your weapon away from you'?

Better judged by twelve men, good and true, than carried by six weeping.

Just like the Pledge of Allegiance, rug-rats should memorize LOADED, MUZZLE, TRIGGER & TARGET. Since
some here don't know the lesson then I'll reprise.

LOADED - every weapon is loaded until it proven not to be so to anyone that cares.

MUZZLE - allow the muzzle to cover only what you're willing to destroy.

TRIGGER - touch the trigger only when the muzzle covers the target.

TARGET - be sure of the target and what is behind it.

If you're unsure of the application of these precepts then quick, run tell mommy to put
the gun away.

"Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That sounds like fun, Joshua.
>
> Another thing you could do (and something which I suggest to women) is to carry a can of spray-on
> oven cleaner, instead of mace.
>
> This way, if some nasty person aggresses you, you can give them a permanent reminder not to mess
> with you.
>
> Lewis.

 

[Jerry Rhodes]

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

Hey there Josh,

Are you REALLY 14 yrs old or is that an exageration????????

Jerry

 

[Old_mopar]

A friend of mine has one of those nice low riders, real nice. Well he got into it which one of those
huge SUV s. The driver was on a cell phone and driving with their knees. He said the reason he knew
they were was because with the other hand they were fiddling with the out side mirror and coming
down a hill at him. So he had a clear view. Well, they edge across road straight at at him, running
him off the road, off the shoulder and down into a small ditch. NO real damage done, just a good old
fashion shake up. Few minutes later, he comes apon this same large SUV at stop light. Well, he
couldnt look into the window on passenger's side, too darn high up. So if even he was armed and
bent, the lest he could do ...is shoot out the tires. He was not armed. So he did the next best
thing. He reach over...no no didnt let air out of tires. He reached over and grabbed a huge hand
full of loose stones and heaved them into the open window of SUV. Then he ease on away. While he was
pedalling he looked into his mirror. What he saw was the goofy driver walking round and round the
large SUV he guessed trying to figure out where in the heck those stones came from. Well, it ain't
revenge at it's highest level. But sometimes just a little of getevenmanship does wonders for the
ego and the stress level. Old_Mopar Rans Stratus

 

[Joshua Goldberg]

I smell a trap if I reply to this one.
----------------------------------
"Jerry Rhodes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Hey there Josh,
>
> Are you REALLY 14 yrs old or is that an exageration????????
>
> Jerry

 

[Joseph Kochanow]

I would not try to use incendary devices against cars. Where I live it is probably at least a felony
to set someone on fire unless it is self defense against a person who is about to kill someone or
cause grave bodily injury. I have thought the best weapon against cars is something that fries the
cars electrical system. If I really needed such a weapon it would involve using large capacitors.
These would make it possible to discharge a lot of electricity into a car all at once. If done right
it would leave the car with almost no trace of anything happening. The car would simply fail to run
and start. To repair the car again would require a lot of new relays and other parts that I know
nothing about. Since the driver is usually insulated by the cars seat and steering wheel, the driver
would not be hurt. After all, cars seem to be our real enemy anyway and not people. This activity
would not attract a lot of attention like a burning car or gunfire. I do not know much about
electricity, so this is only an idea and not an experiment in the works. Another idea I had is to
somehow get a hold of the offending motorists insurance company to let them know what kind of
drivers they insure.

 

[David]

I think a non lethal weapon is a very good idea against cadgers. Some device that would emit a
powerful RFI pulse. With all the electronics in cars these days they should be vulnerable. Just
remember to remove your bikes computer before using such a weapon. Removing your watch if it's
digital might be good too. And then there are pacemakers to be aware of especially if you are
wearing one.......

Joseph Kochanowski wrote:
> I would not try to use incendary devices against cars. Where I live it is probably at least a
> felony to set someone on fire unless it is self defense against a person who is about to kill
> someone or cause grave bodily injury. I have thought the best weapon against cars is something
> that fries the cars electrical system. If I really needed such a weapon it would involve using
> large capacitors. These would make it possible to discharge a lot of electricity into a car all at
> once. If done right it would leave the car with almost no trace of anything happening. The car
> would simply fail to run and start. To repair the car again would require a lot of new relays and
> other parts that I know nothing about. Since the driver is usually insulated by the cars seat and
> steering wheel, the driver would not be hurt. After all, cars seem to be our real enemy anyway and
> not people. This activity would not attract a lot of attention like a burning car or gunfire. I do
> not know much about electricity, so this is only an idea and not an experiment in the works.
> Another idea I had is to somehow get a hold of the offending motorists insurance company to let
> them know what kind of drivers they insure.

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

David wrote:
>
> I think a non lethal weapon is a very good idea against cadgers. Some device that would emit a
> powerful RFI pulse. With all the electronics in cars these days they should be vulnerable. Just
> remember to remove your bikes computer before using such a weapon. Removing your watch if it's
> digital might be good too. And then there are pacemakers to be aware of especially if you are
> wearing one.......
>
> Joseph Kochanowski wrote:
> > I would not try to use incendary devices against cars. Where I live it is probably at least a
> > felony to set someone on fire unless it is self defense against a person who is about to kill
> > someone or cause grave bodily injury. I have thought the best weapon against cars is something
> > that fries the cars electrical system. If I really needed such a weapon it would involve using
> > large capacitors. These would make it possible to discharge a lot of electricity into a car all
> > at once. If done right it would leave the car with almost no trace of anything happening. The
> > car would simply fail to run and start. To repair the car again would require a lot of new
> > relays and other parts that I know nothing about. Since the driver is usually insulated by the
> > cars seat and steering wheel, the driver would not be hurt. After all, cars seem to be our real
> > enemy anyway and not people. This activity would not attract a lot of attention like a burning
> > car or gunfire. I do not know much about electricity, so this is only an idea and not an
> > experiment in the works. Another idea I had is to somehow get a hold of the offending motorists
> > insurance company to let them know what kind of drivers they insure.

Police have tested something like that several years ago, but I don't know if it was ever used in
the field. It was a little rocket powered remote control car that was launched from the front bumper
of the police car, steered to run under a fleeing car where it made contact with the car via metal
feelers sticking up. It would then zap the car with a sharp spike of high voltage which has similar
affects as a lightning strike, burning out all the car's electronics. No electronic ignition, the
car coasts to a stop. Now if they can just make one that will fit in a standard water bottle cage...

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"A people living under the perpetual menace of war and invasion is very easy to govern. It demands
no social reforms. It does not haggle over expenditures on armaments and military equipment. It pays
without discussion, it ruins itself, and that is an excellent thing for the syndicates of financiers
and manufacturers for whom patriotic terrors are an abundant source of gain." Anatole France

 

[Geob]

> I would not try to use incendary devices against cars. Where I live it is probably at least a
> felony to set someone on fire unless it is self defense against a person who is about to kill
> someone or cause grave bodily injury.

Yes, of course you are right. I would never do that.

After I am almost run over by a car whipping in front of me to make a right turn, sometimes I think
maybe it would help to be respected. They wouldn't do that to a Dump Truck. Maybe if I had explosive
charges on the end of sticks pointing out everywhere on my bike, painted red or sumthin, if they
slammed into me or cut me off too close the shaped charge would... oh, you get the idea. This is
when I am shaking with adrinaline after being almost killed, and the perp calmly drives off.

> I have thought the best weapon against cars is something that fries the cars electrical system.

I think this would be great if it existed. These and similar subsequent posts suggesting this are
much more balanced than my tongue-in-cheek incendary or explosive device ideas.

I am not an expert in this area, though I have a BS in micro electronics. I feel that the suggestion
to use a 'lightning' device would not work. The 'powerful RFI pulse' device might, I don't know, but
be aware that car electronics are shielded and ruggedized.

I have always dreamed of a ray gun that would simply weld all metal parts together. They quit
rolling (suddenly), the doors won't open, the engine is a boat anchor.. the only problem (besides
technical) is that I want them to KNOW they messed with me and I got em back. Childish, yeah. Like
the time I was driving at the speed limit up a hill, with some impatient drivers behind me. One
pulled around me, cursing and flipping me off, breaking the speed limit and passing across a double
yellow. A cop saw it all and pulled him over farther up the hill. When I cruised past I honked, they
looked, and I gave a cheery wave.

But another idea I like: Every driver has a small plastic laser gun. You point it at an offender and
press the stud, and the Giant Traffic Computer (GTC) notes that car xyz has been accused of
such-and-such. If the offense is bad enough, and/or enough people 'tag' them in a short while, the
GTC remotely wrestles control from the driver, disables the engine and parks the car at the
roadside. The Police Cruiser picks up the offender. It is also possible to indicate the you choose
to prefer charges against the perp, in more serious cases. Somebody who is habitually discourteous
and gets tagged a lot can expect to be invited to an 'attitude adjustment' class. When tagged, the
car's computer stores the current info, speed, throttle setting, acceleration vectors (weaving?
braking?) and is queried by the GTC. A reckless speeder would be caught.

> Another idea I had is to somehow get a hold of the offending motorists insurance company to let
> them know what kind of drivers they insure.

I like this idea a lot. Maybe an innovative insurance company would require its drivers to have a
"How's my driving?" bumper sticker, with a car ID prominently displayed. Sure, maybe there would be
false alarms but they should be fairly evenly distributed among covered drivers I'd think, and could
be dealt with statistically.

 

[Iambent]

> I once read a sci-fi book where adolescents were sent to an uninhabited planet for a month of
> survival training. You could take whatever weapons you wanted. One young guy was given the advice
> from an experienced survivor to carry only a knife. She explained to him that it would foster an
> attitude of caution and defense rather than aggression...

Hi GeoB,

The book was "Tunnel in the Sky" by Robert Heinlein. One of his juvenile series books. The book that
turned me on to science fiction. A great read, still today.

Doug

 

[Doug Huffman]

Robert Anson Heinlein is also the source of such gems as "An armed society is a plite society." You
won't find none of this '****' thought in his writing. Trust and verify. The conspiracy of ignorance
masquerades as common sense.

"IAmBent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I once read a sci-fi book where adolescents were sent to an uninhabited planet for a month of
> > survival training. You could take whatever weapons you wanted. One young guy was given the
> > advice from an experienced survivor to carry only a knife. She explained to him that it would
> > foster an attitude of caution and defense rather than aggression...
>
> Hi GeoB,
>
> The book was "Tunnel in the Sky" by Robert Heinlein. One of his juvenile series books. The book
> that turned me on to science fiction. A great read, still today.
>
> Doug

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

"A ridiculously inadequate military intelligence had been the prime characteristic of the United
States as a power all through its history." THE SIXTH COLUMN by Robert Heinlein, 1941

Doug Huffman wrote:
>
> Robert Anson Heinlein is also the source of such gems as "An armed society is a plite society."
> You won't find none of this '****' thought in his writing. Trust and verify. The conspiracy of
> ignorance masquerades as common sense.
>
> "IAmBent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > I once read a sci-fi book where adolescents were sent to an uninhabited planet for a month of
> > > survival training. You could take whatever weapons you wanted. One young guy was given the
> > > advice from an experienced survivor to carry only a knife. She explained to him that it would
> > > foster an attitude of caution and defense rather than aggression...
> >
> > Hi GeoB,
> >
> > The book was "Tunnel in the Sky" by Robert Heinlein. One of his juvenile series books. The book
> > that turned me on to science fiction. A great read, still today.
> >
> > Doug

 

[Mikael Seierup]

"Lorenzo L. Love" skrev...
> "A ridiculously inadequate military intelligence had been the prime characteristic of the United
> States as a power all through its history." THE SIXTH COLUMN by Robert Heinlein, 1941
>
>
> Doug Huffman wrote:
> >
> > Robert Anson Heinlein is also the source of such gems as "An armed society is a plite society."
> > You won't find none of this '****' thought in his writing. Trust and verify. The conspiracy of
> > ignorance masquerades as common sense.

Personally I went off Heinlein after reading "To sail beyond the sunset". His books were okay when I
was a teenager but they don't really catch my imagination anymore. To simple and naive and in the
case of "Sail beyond the sunset" too gross.

Peter F. Hamilton, China Mieville and Alastair Reynolds I quite enjoy at this point. And rereading
Anderson, Pohl, Clarke, Bear and Banks. Not Heinlein though.

Regards Mikael

P.S. anyone wanna **** me off for replying to another OT thread please read the subject line. *waves
to Skerrod* ;o)

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mikael Seierup wrote:
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" skrev...
> > "A ridiculously inadequate military intelligence had been the prime characteristic of the United
> > States as a power all through its history." THE SIXTH COLUMN by Robert Heinlein, 1941
> >
> >
> > Doug Huffman wrote:
> > >
> > > Robert Anson Heinlein is also the source of such gems as "An armed society is a plite
> > > society." You won't find none of this '****' thought in his writing. Trust and verify. The
> > > conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.
>
> Personally I went off Heinlein after reading "To sail beyond the sunset". His books were okay when
> I was a teenager but they don't really catch my imagination anymore. To simple and naive and in
> the case of "Sail beyond the sunset" too gross.
>
> Peter F. Hamilton, China Mieville and Alastair Reynolds I quite enjoy at this point. And rereading
> Anderson, Pohl, Clarke, Bear and Banks. Not Heinlein though.
>
> Regards Mikael
>
> P.S. anyone wanna **** me off for replying to another OT thread please read the subject line.
> *waves to Skerrod* ;o)

"Have Space suit - Will Travel" was the first novel I read over 40 years ago. I reread it a couple
years ago and it's still better then most the drek published. Even Heinlein fans agree his later
work went down hill fast. "Stranger in a Strange Land" was probably the dividing line in his career.
He wrote some good stuff after that, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" for one, but it mostly got
pretty disappointing.

Hamilton and Mieville are very good, never read Alastair Reynolds. My favorite authors are
Cherryh, Willis and Tepper. All women with very differnet styles. Big change from the old boys
club SF used to be.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"It's amazing how much "mature wisdom" resembles being too tired." Robert A. Heinlein

 

[Yourbuddy]

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I destroyed the .357 after I walked in on my daughter and one of her girlfriends playing Russian
> Roullete with it. When I took it away I poitned out that if the Safety had not been on...one of
> them would have been dead.

Exactly what .357 revolver did you have which was equipped with a safety? You're making this up. I
assume the imaginary firearm in question was a revolver, because it's impossible to play Russian
Roulette with a semi-auto. Your story is a lie. Try again.

 

[Mike O'Brien]

"YourBuddy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Exactly what .357 revolver did you have which was equipped with a safety? You're making this up. I
> assume the imaginary firearm in question was a revolver, because it's impossible to play Russian
> Roulette with a
semi-auto.
> Your story is a lie. Try again.

I had a S&W Model 19 .357 and it had a safety.

Regards,

Mike O'Brien

Trying to keep the barbarians from the gate, but they all have fake
IDs...

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003

 

[Robert Siegel]

I'm pretty sure my Colt Python 357 revolver had a safety.

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush